Is it too low?Air Ride Install

OK, just got done with the major work on a taildragger install on my 50. Fatman front (not ultraslam) with dropped spindles, superslam front bags with 1.5" upper mounts. It sits about where it was before I bagged it when its fully raised. I know some people run a 4-5" front bag plate mount, Alex suggested that I go 1-2" so I split the difference.

I think it should be fine, but figured I would get some opinions, I can always extend the front mount and make a spacer for under the rear bag.

Pics are fully raised. 235/75/15 tire

Thanks!
<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From Jan 28, 2012 Taildragger Install<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From Wiring Reference Pics</td></tr></tbody></table><table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From Wiring Reference Pics</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

 

Ask yourself this question is it too low to drive it? Now ask yourself another question if it is out of air can I still limp along?

I would want to step back and look to see if I liked it. That is always a good thing to do, don't get too small of a shop syndrome.

 

Looks to me you can do with out the dropped up rights, if thats aired up all the way you not using all the travel in the bag when it deflates.
I and running 205/60/15 on the front and have more lift than you.

put the stock spindels back on or space the bag mount lower, either way you will gain lift.

the rear looks fine to me.

MrC.

 

yeah, i am gonna get it outside this weekend and take a hard look at it. I think it will be fine to drive at mid-bag height and I will set up some bump stops to keep it off the inner fenders with no air in the rear. the front is fine aired out. Thanks P&B

 

like p&b said all that matter is can it move if totally aired out! I have had some mini truck friends that have been stranded after a compressor went out and they were stuck laying frame.

Is you question is it too low when fully raised? you said it sat where it was before you bagged it, was it too low then to drive were you wanted?

 

If you are fully inflated now, this cant be the proper "ride height" for the bags correct? I thought bags had "sweet spots" that were what you shot for when setting it up, also called ride height. I If this is correct, and you drive the car fully inflated because of low clearance issues, I would think your ride would be horrible.

 

They are dropped spindles, not factory uprites, so no way to do that. I can just increase the length of the pipe that makes up the upper bag mount and get more travel

 

nutbush, yes, this would not be ride height, but maxed height for clearance, etc. I don't believe it would be any worse than before. I didnt have any issues scraping or anything before.

 

I have a friend that has given me advice on the air bag thing alot. He actually drove home from Back to the '50s with a blown bag back in the '90s. He had his bumps setup so that it would not get so low that you couldn't drive it even tough you were just limping along. It took him like 14 hours but he wasn't stranded.

 

I'd set it up when the car is at its lowest point the bag is fully compressed. That way when its lifted you will get a smooth ride from the car. If the bags maxed out its a rough ride.

 

these might help, I tried the pipe idea but settled on the plate. Yes a longer pice of pipe will do it.
when setting up air ride, I compress the bag and the lowest point, and build from there, this way I have the full hieght of the bag for lift and about half way for ride hieght.

Same goes for shocks compress them and build the mounts at the lowest point (drop) so you wont bottem them out when you air down, these are stock front mustang II shocks, they were the shortest I could find.

MrC.

 

thanks for the pics, I will look at it again

 

I would consider getting rid of the dropped spindles. you dont want to have to drive at full pressure all the time. it will ride like a brick. many people swap to the dropped after they have used the non dropped ones so I bet someone has an extra set of standard hieght must II spindles laying around you could try.

 

You really do want to make it so at full drop it will still rol and you do not lose control or scrape away your sheetmetal or frame. Thank if a line or bag loses air when driving down the freeway. Could be a mess unless you make it so nothing rubs or scrapes. Low is good.

The replies about being at max pressure riding like crap is very good. You want as low of pressure as you can get away with at normal ride height. It may take 40-50 psi to even lift off the bump stops (see above paragraph), but if you need 120+ psi just to be at ride height then you have almost no spring action, it will ride very rough.

 

It will definitely be set up with bump stops to allow the car to be driven with no air pressure, no worries there.

 

Pressure isn"t the only factor
Tank volume, line and valve size play an important part aswell.

Case in point same size and weight car, same 6 inch bags with 5 gal tank, 1/4 line and 3/8 valves required 200psi to pick up the front end.
Same car with 1/2 line and valves and 7 gal tank requires 140psi to pick up the front at the same speed as before.

The pressure can vary for may reasons the size of delivary and even the amount of leverage designed into the control arms, longer or shorter would increase/decrease the pressure required.

A good rule of thumb is 150psi in a 5 gal tank, 1/2 valves and 3/8 line for a fullsize car/truck. This would be the minimun setup, in airride bigger is better.

MrC.

 

I like running 3/8 line and 3/8 valves on the cars I build. I had 3/8 valves and 1/2 line on my truck it was too fast and hard to get adjusted where I wanted it. I ended up putting reducers in the dump valves to slow it down.

 

Good info. I gotta check the fronts again then, as I have the tank hooked up to shop air at 125psi right now, so its possible the fronts aren't fully up. Rears are fully extended. I'll hook the tank up to my CO2 tank today and bump the pressure to 200, then make sure its cool before I extend the cups
RUnning a 7 gallon tank (I believe) 3/8 lines, 1/2 valves with the accuair vu4. Speed up and down seems fine. BUt car is gutted. Running a 235 up front, so not terribly heavy

 

At the shop, we shoot for the minimum of 1" under the lowest point on the chassis or suspension, when the car is fully aired out. That way, in the unlikely event of a component failure, the car will still roll. We tend to use Slam Specialties bags, as they have a built-in bump stop.

If your front bags are not fully up at 125psi, then something is wrong, especially if the car is gutted. You should not need that much pressure, with the engine in it, at ride height, cruising down the road. There is no reason whatsoever that you should have to put 200psi in a bag, unless it is very much the wrong bag for the application.

We are also an Accuair dealer, so I'd be happy to answer any questions you have on that too.

 

Cool, thanks. Got it outside today and checked it out. Its all up at 125psi. I figure about 70-80psi for ride height. I did end up gutting the rear wheel wells to get the rear down more and give me more travel. I think its going to be cool where its at.

 

I ride mine at about 100PSI. 135 is all up and rides stiff. You may want to set up the ride hight where it is (with engine installed) to sit around 100, then have the additional lift if you need it to get in and out of steep places.

 

I think it looks great man.

 

Thanks man, I am going to post pics of it outside and aired out on my build thread.

 

how do you set up the ride height and know where the bag will be at 100psi? thanks for any help john

 

I've always done my airbag setups this way - lay the frame on the ground and mount the bag (and shock) fully compressed. That way it will lay frame and get the most lift possible. I think the people saying to have it ride on the bumpstops without air have no experience with airbags. Lets see you drive home on the bumps and not break something. You would have to idle home and you would probably still get high centered on a speedbump or curb. How about if it breaks you fix it and drive it home on its suspension. Plus if you build it right that should really not be an issue. Big rigs drive millions of miles on air suspension and it can be reliable if properly designed and installed.

Bottom line, don't bother with airbags if it's not gonna lay frame, anything else makes you a poser.

 

I guess you could experiment, but its a nonissue. Every car has different suspension geometry and weighs in differently, so 100 psi is a random number. Just set the car up to use all of the bags travel and you will have more than enough adjustment to find a decent ride height.

 

looks great! what size wheels you running? i didnt have to cut my rear fenderwells.. but i ran 14's.. i set my ride height pretty low.. rides nice.. also installed bump stops just in case. at least i could pull to the side of the road safely without slammin to the ground! Keep up the good work.. sweet lookin ride!

 

Those are factory 15s. Thanks man!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

Can you explain what lay frame means?

 

Not drive home, but at least make it to the shoulder of the road, and then up onto a flatbed, without touching metal.

Having metal touch down at speed, due to a component failure (albeit rare) can result in catastrophic unrecoverable loss of control of the vehicle, possibly resulting in serious injury of the occupants, bystanders, or other motorists.

I guess I will tell my 100+ satisfied customers that they are posers, then.