I have had a valve lash problem with my 331 Hemi since i built it last year. When the engine is cold it sounds great and the valve train is very quiet. But when the engine reaches temp, it starts to gain valve lash. It has a hyd Isky cam, Hot heads lifters, adjustable pushrods, all of the recommended stuff. Full pressure oil block off, spin on adapt, ect. I used a rebuilt stock 331 oil pump and it never drops under 45 pounds. I run 15w-40 oil with zink added as well. I have tried many adjustments as i have read here and on HemiHaines web site. I have the best results with .030 lifter preload. The engine runs very well and makes great power but im still baffled by this. Should I try thicker oil? Any suggestions will be great. Thanks Hack
Try bumping in the mid morning to early afternoon..... so all the guys who work for a living can see this....from work More people are on then.
Why wouldn't you put some reference to a noisy hemi valve train when warm in the title? Probably have 10 replies in less minutes. Just saying ...
Full pressure oil block off? You mean you plugged the oil line to the hydraulic lifters. So now you set the lash with the adjustable pushrods cold, as though it had a solid lifter cam. When it warms up it becomes apparent that it doesn't. Find some old guy who ran Chrysler's in the'50s 0r early '60s near you. One who understands the oil drain back plug in the hydraulic lifter gallery. For some reason the entire HAMB population under the age of 65 seems to think that thing is a pressure pop off. I don't know how this happened. Aliens maybe.
Probably means this not full pressure, but full flow to the oil filter? http://www.hothemiheads.com/dodge/oiling_system/oil_bypass_plug.html and this http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Rebuild/HemiRebuild.html
Yes. Full flow to the oil filter. Sorry about the confusion. I did also install that plug you speak of in the end of the lifter gallery. Was that not a good thing to do?
MJ, Man that link is just what I needed! I'm finally ready to reassemble my '55 331 (338) that has been sitting for many years. It might sit for another year but I'll feel better having it all buttoned up. I have read that not having the rocker shafts fully primed can lead to early failure. How do you feel about grooving the cam bearing or the cam to provide constant upper end oil? A restricter would be necessary but at least the oil supply would be constant.
Not sure what you mean by "best results" but 0.030 is on the low side for pre-load. If it starts rattling when it is warm then you are losing oil pressure to the lifters that the colder-thicker oil is masking. Try 0.050 pre-load. That is our standard. The usual problem is the small-ish drain back holes that can be overloaded. If you have applied the proper assembly lube where it needs to be then you should not have a problem while the shafts fill. The single biggest issue with top-end oiling is with the installation of the cam bearings and the correct orientation of feed holes to the block. .
are you shore that the pistons not hit the heads!!! If you not have enought clearence betwine the head and piston it can happen when the engine is hot. I had that problems with my 354 with 392 ross forgde pistons. When they hit the heads they do it in the sides of the doms and put the spiston to the side little and it sounds as bad valve lash.
Very good point, as I had that experience with my Hudson 202. Oversized pistons will not clear the head gasket in my case. I machined another .050 chamfer off the top of the pistons. Cold engine ran quiet, but the warm engine would expand everything and it sounded like a rock knock, but noise was up at the head bolts. You may want to run your engine with one of the valve covers off and check for noise with the trusty screwdriver to the ear method at the rockers. If they are pretty quiet, then touch the head bolts and listen.
Well I tried the .050 setting and it is still ticking at op. temp. Do you guys suppose that the stock oil pump cannot supply the HotHeads lifters with enough volume when the oil vescosity goes away? I dono but this one has been kickin my ass for a while now. I have run the engine with the rocker covers removed and located the noisey rocker, adjusted, and it will not stay pumped up. Its almost like it moves around, and its usually always on the exhaust side. This is why i dont think that there is enough oil volume. What do you think fellas? Anything helps. Thanks again.
I agree,sounds like bad lifter. Have you even tried going with another grade of oil besides the 15w-40?
Well I just thought I would bring this one back up. I have ruled out the oil pump question and installed the converted 340 pump. Re-adjusted the valve setting to 60 thousandths preload and tried again. It made great pressure and sounded great till it warmed up and she started ticking again. I guess im down to lifters now. Can this be the only variable left. Share your thoughts. Thanks Hack
The lifters have too much/too fast bleed down rate. Buy a better lifter. Somebody on ebay is selling Comp Cams pieces pretty cheap. .
The lifters are from Hot Heads. I want to say they were Melling. Could they just be a bad set? Thanks 73rr. I sure appreciate the advice. Hack
The single biggest problem I have had to deal with regarding hydraulic lifters is that although there are several that will interchange, they all have different bleed down rates (we are all familiar with "anti-pump up" lifters) based on the original design parameters. So which lifter do you have? vl-8, #812, #879 or did you use the 2011? Or ? .
Its funny reading this. I had a similar problem with my 354 hemi. Same hot heads lifters, isky cam etc. I pinpointed what I thought was two bad lifters that would not stay pumped up. I replaced them with two that HH sent me. Same problem. I removed all the lifters and spun the oip pump with a drill to observe the oil holes in the lifter bores. Two were not getting any oil at all compared to how the others were squirting!! I fished some welding wire in there while I spun the pump, and some crud came loose and it shot oil to the cealing. Put it back together. Nice and quiet. You can also check your lifters to see if they pump up. Place in a cup of oil, and push down on them. See if they pump up hard. Rob
Seem to recall someone having problems with "white box generic" lifters that HH is/was selling. Over @ the Webrodder Forums, Doc mentioned where to get US made lifters in a Thread about lifter/cam problems.
Yeah, plenty of opportunity to get sideways with that boner...Comp Cams is part number 826-16 for a set of 16. Some discounter is selling them cheap on ebay..... As Rob Paul notes, if your dealing with the same pieces all of the time then a blockage could be to blame. If it is all over the place then the lifters may be suspect. .
Ok fellas. Thanks a lot for all the input. Shes comin apart tomorrow and ill update the post with my results. Im going to try Ron's check method first. If she's gettin the juice ill get with Comp Cams right away (thanks 73rr for the info once again). Much appreciated. Brody
Whoa! Good thread! I'm REALLY going to be watching this. My 331 has lifters from Hot Heads that Bob recommended. They arrived in the "white box". Immediately called them to inquire where they are sourced and he swore up and down they are "made in the USA". So then I called back a couple more times and talked to a couple other different people and got the same answer. But, I still don't believe they are made in the USA based on the packaging. With that in the back of my mind, I disassembled EVERY lifter to clean and check for any issues with the bores and put them back together. I can't add much more than what has been said, but it seems you are experiencing the same thing Rob experienced. Also, I would like to add, now that you know it's not the pump that is the problem, please put the rebuilt stock 331 pump back on and save that adapted later model pump for emergency use. If you're wondering why I say that, do a little search around here and you'll see. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I wish more people would post when they have "gremlin" issues. Working through them on the board REALLY helps other people when/if they are experiencing similar problems. Good luck! Keep us posted!
Thanks Scoot! Well i got er tore down last night. Did as Rob had done and primed the engine and checked all the feed holes. They were all getting oil but the passenger bank seemed to be getting more than the drivers bank. I would assume that the oil takes the path of least resistance and equally supplies pressure to all the lifters? I reinstalled the passenger bank and and primed again and the amount of oil volume increased on the opposite side. The old pump was a rebuilt unit and will be reinstalled as soon as i get this lifter issue resolved. The only reason it was installed at all is I thought the increased volume would have been able to keep up with the bleed down occuring in the super duper "white box" lifters. I ordered the 826-16 Comp lifters as discussed and I will keep posting as I go. Thanks again everyone for your help. BH
Quick thought. Does crankshaft position affect oiling in a stationary priming observation? Does rotating the crank make a difference to which side oils better? Seems like it does in some engines.
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