Straight axle front end HELP????

I'm starting to try to research what straight axle front suspension to put under my Henry J.
I would like to go with Scrap Yard parts if at all possible to keep cost down so that I can get the build done faster. Around here I have a couple old school yards I can search through.
My question are this.
What front axle should I look for to fit under my Henry J?
What gear box & steering?
What front springs?

I'm building an Old School Gasser that will be a street car if this helps.
I've never built a straight axle car before so I need all the help I can get.
I thought about building my own straight axle.
What all would it take to build one of my own?

I want to try & stay away from buying all new stuff if I can.

 

Find some one on here with a henry j and ask them what their running ... Speedway may have one ...

 

Use some lite springs say from a snowmobile trailer. Axel should be a straight Axel with spindles to match front hub's and wheels.Steering would be a co well type do a search search in the Tech archives. Become an alliance member and get discounts from some suppliers. Good luck on your build be sure to post your progress.

 

I went with a speedway on my Henry J. As I remember it there were two different lengths offered and I went with the wide one because I like the stance better.

Do a search on here for Von hartman's Abomination Henry J. I think he used a Willys axle.

Look for old Ford trucks and measure them up.

 

Clik, what the width from side to side on your car?
I still haven't got mine home to measure it yet is why I'm asking.

 

Look for an axle that is around 48" center of king pin to center of king pin.

 

Try to find a Ford Econoline from the 60's/70's. You might have to narrow it, though. At least that would give you brakes that should have available parts.

 

Would this be streetable?

 

Here's all the specs for ya:

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/auta_details1.php

 

i used 2 model a front springs for my j and a straight axle from that old mas company. they are about 32 inches. gives a lot smoother ride than the t type or trailer type. they are usually 26 inches. then just get early to mid '50's chevy truck spindles and brakes.

 

Gary, do you have any pictures of your setup you can post?

 

excuse the crappy pic. bad camera at the time. i put the axle on top of the springs and used round u-bolts. i used a '67 mustang steering box as a cross steer.

this is it finished. i have driven it over 45,000 miles in 4 years.

 

This was going to be my next question. What steering box to use?
I've heard about Mustang steering boxes & Vega's.
What's the best to use?
What are the advantages & disadvantages of each?

Flatheadgary, can you use the same setup as you did & mount the springs on top of the axle?

 

I am using a Vega box from Speedway (Speedy has done good by me so far and stood behind any problems) and setting it up cross steer. I didn't go with a junk yard unit because I can't stand any slop in a steering box.

Vega boxes are good in tight locations. Heavier cars and Big Block street cars might consider a bigger 525 box if you've got room.

 

of course you can put the axle underneath the springs. i like the axle on top to keep the front a little lower to make it more driveable. i use mine for just about anything. i tow my race car to the drags with it, i tow a flatbed trailer to get steel, i even use it to tow my trash trailer to the dump.

 

flatheadgary, do you have any closer pictures you can post of your setup?
What steering columns are you'll using?

 

Not yet mentioned but I think something to think about. You could go really old school and use a cross leaf and ford axle setup. Something along th lines of a 37-41 axle.

You may also throw a tape on an econoline front end, the springs would be close to the correect. The unknown on this one is axle width it may be a little wide for the J.

 

I know that the Econoline name comes up a lot. That seemed to be what was used a lot back in the day so I wandered about it as well?
As far as the 37-41 axle, I've had some buddy's tell me that I probably wouldn't like that setup compared to a dual spring setup.

 

I went with pararllel leafs because they are more stable.

 

It takes a lot of setup to make a cross leaf handle as well as a parallel leaf setup on a heavier car. None of them are going to handle like an Alfa Romeo from the same era.

If you take the same cross leaf setup on an A roadster and leave it tall like a G/STR or G/R of the era they wont andle as well as one lowered either. That is just the nature of the beast. The only reason I mentioned it is that it did get done a lot in the earlier days of straight axle gas rides.

What you need to do before deciding on an Econoline is find one with wheels and measure the track width. Then with the measurments of your J you can decide if it is doable or something that you can live with. It may be a little wider than the stock J setup, but you will find that your ride is more stable at speed with the wider front track width. As long as it doesn't look too goofy and it is something that you can tolerate that may be a good solution for you.

The reason I am mentioning this is that I know that the J is pretty narrow. Something else that you might consider for a donar is a Thames freighter somewhere around '58 or 9. They are pretty narrow and light.

 

First I want to say porknbeaner I didn't mean anything bad towards the A model setup, it's just like you kind of said it's something hard to get setup.

As far as the Econoline front end, I wouldn't mind it being a little wider as long as it worked right for stability. I know a guy though that built a race car & put to wide of a front end on it & if you look at the same types of cars compared to his it just plain out looks STUPID! So looks will have something to do with it.
What is the track on the Henry J?

 

I knew you didn't I was just trying to educate the rest of the heard. One of the local fellas did it on a '55 Chevy a few years back and it took him all summer and several trips to Guard Rail U to get it sorted out.

I helped one of the older fellas do the cross leaf setup to a '58 Corvette quite a few years back now and with just a little tweaking it handled like a dream. We didn't lift it a ton and that helped.

its a crap shoot if you don't do it every day.

I can't give you the track width of th J off the top of my head and don't have one handy. If you just get the width off the econoline and measure how much room you got you'll be golden.

I understand getting too wide an axle. I have seen some of the goofiest stuff on the planet.

There used to be a magazine (I don't recall which) that had a space in the back called "From the Sublime to the Ridiculas" in the back. It would have been in the '50s or very early '60s. They always had two cars or motor cycles of the same type. One too extreme and the other smooth as silk. I remember they had a pair of dragsters one time and one of them had the world's widest front axle and the other was normal. The one with the wide axle reminded me of a walrus (I was a little kid).

 

i have another J i am building for the drags only. it is basiclly the same as my street one, but with those short front springs. i used a comet steering box. the frame is stock with the front rails cut just ahead of were the stock box was. then 2 x 3 tubing welded on. curously, the box matched up with a couple of the holes in the stock location. i just used a couple of the holes and welded a tab under the frame for the last bolt. i made the pitman arm, by using the stock comet box arm and cutting the shape of the arm from 3/4 thick steel. then i cut off the round ends, where the splines are, and turned them down on my lathe. i used a hole saw to drill the right size hole in each end. put them in and then i just welded the crap out of them. works perfectly.
here is a pic of my drag car.


as you can see, i like to cut out the stock firewall and just weld a new one straight down with the stock dash. gives you more room around the engine for maintainence. the down side is, your seats move back and you lose the back seat area a bit. not a problem for a race car but, it is for a street car. ah hell, just throw pillows back there for the freeloaders you have to take along.

i make my own columns. i use exhaust tubing and have them flaried out on one end. i machine a steel bushing for each end and tap a grease zerk in and a small 1/4 in bolt to hold it in place. you should use nylon or at the least aluminum, but mine haven't worn noticably in 4.5 years. just keep them greased.




as far as the spring setups go, do you remember seeing the old pic's of Model T's going down a dirt road and the right front tire is down in the rut and the other is high on the crown. the back tires are the opposite. the funny part is the body is pretty much straight. that is exactly what that type of spring setup does. it is highly flexable. the problem today is, we don't have roads like that now to much. it reacts like this due mostly to the center mount of the spring and the ball socket of the wishbone. what happens with heavy cars and the cross spring design is, the body will roll when going into corners around the u bolt clamps in the center of the cross member where it is bolted, but since it isn't wishbone mounted, it will bind on the radius rods. now to preface all this, i have known heavy cars that used this and it wasn't a problem and i have seen them where it was. what you have to contemplate is, why did the trucks in the late 40's and on all use twin spring leaf designs. this is one of those things that make you go hmmmmm.

 

flatheadgary, great pics!
One thing I'm noticing here & on other threads is that everybody is putting the axles over the springs.
What (besides ride height) is the difference in driving & riding between putting the springs on top of the axle or below it?
If I remember correctly didn't most of the old school gassers have the axles under the springs?

 

There isn't really any differance in the driving, it's in the way a top heavy car handles compared to a lower car. Remember, this type of mod is and was for racing only, in a straight line, not for going around corners. Now as a contradiction, trucks and cars use the spring on top of the axle, which puts the vehicle higher up. The trucks, after all, were for working, going over rocks, dirt roads, etc, etc. Manufacurers weren't concerned about luxury in a truck, like they are today. Also, putting the springs on top usually gives you more room for your tie rod not to get in the way. Just a guess, but the cars probably were a different story, the '40 willys comes to mind. Remember, in the '40's, they were trying to build several platforms as cheaply as possible. If you notice, the cars and the trucks used the same framework. I would think the manufacturers just wanted a solid platform and if you notice, cars sat pretty high back then too. As far as the racers, they probably just followed the truck design. Then again, there most likely were exceptions. Hey, that's HOT RODDING aint it.

 

One advantage of the spring over the top of the axle is the axle not banging into the frame when the spring compresses.

One of the things that you have to keep in mind about any mass produced vehicle is the one size fits all mentality. You do as few options as possible to not have to retool for every model or so that your retooling is minimal. Remember anything that costs you money effects your bottom line. Even a little change can make for big costs on an assembly line.

A lot of the cars that we use for building a hot rod (think Ford and Willys) were cheap cars. They were built with as little extras as possible, handling in a car that would run 50-60 flat out was not a major concern. Getting it off the line and into your driveway was.

 

They used Econoline axles because they were about the last vehicle that had a straight axle. MAS and others make a tubular straight axle to use pre 55 Chev car or pre 69 Econoline spindles. Get the Econoline spindles if you can, the brakes and wheel bearings are way better. You can buy an axle any width you need.

 

Some have even used a Cherokee 2wd axle. Parts are easy for that. Of course I went with a Speedway for my '39.

 

I believe I just found a set of Econoline springs.
How do you'll think they would work?

 

front track width on henry j is 56 inches stock