A question for Sandy Belond owners. Those who have been following my build thread know I've been fabbing a set of Sandy Belond style headers for my sport coupe. I'd like to find out how the origionals were welded. I'm assuming they were gas welded and also, how good were the welds. It's been at least 30 years since I've seen a real set and I can't remember what I did yesterday. Anybody have a set?
History lesson: Sandy was one of the early advocates of outsourcing labor to Mexico. He built bullet proof header jigs, shipped precut tubing to Tiajuana and paid duty on the added value of the finished headers after they were welded together and sent back to the US. Finished product was excellent. So if you want to be "traditional" send your headers to Mexico for final assembly!
Don't think so!!!!! I checked out 777 posts and am amuzed to find out the headers were filled and polished with brass, which accounts for the beautiful transitions. My headers aren't repops but more "in the style of". Way cool stuff here! As per 777's posts there were two lines of headers, the Sandys' Muffler Shop ones and the later Belonds. Thanks for the help and where to look. I knew the info would be on here.
Anybody have any photos of a set of Belond headers for sbc? I've never seen a set, would like to see them.
To the best of my knowledge, which isn't much, they didn't make them for the Chevy. Is this info correct? I'm patterning mine, which are for an SBC on the 303 Olds headers. I'm not sure when Belond became AP/Hedman, but I think it was the mid fifties, about the same time the Chevy was introduced. I'll post up pics of mine on my build thread as they progress. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7117318#post7117318
Guess that explains why I have never seen a photo of them. If I end up using my 283, I was planning on fabbing a set of hedman look-alikes, but would always be interested in period-correct alternatives.
Koz,,,could you explain this statement???? as we were Hedman distributors back when it was Bob Hedman and Bill Million..Where does AP enter into this????
The info I have comes from 777 on here who now owns the old Belond lakes roadster. There is a ton of info on this thread.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359942 According to this thread and some additional info I gleaned from the net, Sandy Belond sold the Muffler division to A-P and the header operation to Hedman sometime between 1955 and 1958 depending on who you believe. There were two seperate companies as I understand which was Belond Headers and Belond Muffler Shop headers. As it appears, the Belond Muffler shop headers were sort of a less expensive line that wasn't finished quite as well as the Belond line. I actually like the more raw appearance of the muffler shop headers. The 777 post is really good at explaining some of the details of the operation. I'm going to gas weld my headers like the Mexico muffler shop headers, and try to capture some of Sandy's magic. Kind of neat to me when I walk into NAPA and see AP muffler parts as to where they came from! Whole new level of appreciation there.
OK,I was assuming that you meant AP and Hedman were connected,and They arent and have never been..Thanks for the reply..Sandy was good friend with us in Texas as well as Bob Hedman was too..so knew both if them well.same goes for current owner of Hedman,Bob Vandergriff.Sr.
I've owned several sets of Belond headers over the years, and they all looked gas welded to me. I've still got a set for an early Buick nailhead; the next time I'm in the attic of my garage, I'll look at the welds.
Excellent! I have assumed that they would be at that time and the fact that most things done in Mexico at that time were pretty shoestring. Not like today, (yeah right !). Thanks for all the help guys, and to wbrw32, I am very impressed that you had the priviledge of knowing these legends in person. There were a few movers and shakers that I was able to meet at my Dads' shop back in the 50's and early 60's that I wish I had taken the time to know better. It just didn't seem that important back then.
Thanks Heathen. The last set I had my hands on was the 303 Olds ap and that was probably 30 years+ ago. I kind of remember they were pretty decent of quality. A lot better than some of the stuff you see today. I just used a set of big name, high dollar lake style headers on a customer car recently, and to put it mildly, most 8th grade metal shop students could do better. I'm just hoping I can do the old guys justice with this set. My Dad had a set on his '34 Tudor. He ran them with no mufflers, I believe 1 7/8" all the way back. He used to get whacked for the pipes about once a month. That hot Merc flattie sure sounded sweet! He considered it a cost of doing buisness.
It makes me slightly ill to think about an old local speed shop that closed its doors in 1969. It was still full of inventory, and it all finally became available when the building sold in 1991. There were many sets of n.o.s. Belond headers for flatheads, Olds 303s, Dodge Red Ram hemis, etc. that were selling for the whopping price of $30.00 a set.
Same thing happened in Mt. Penn when Sewards Speed Shop closed at about the same time. All I was able to afford at the time was a set of 15" dark center mags for my '65 Chevelle. I remember they were really cheap but still big bucks to a high school kid with a gas station job. There was tons of great old stuff that went over the auction block. Sad!
This post is useless without pics!!! Really... I'd love to see pics of the Belond Nailhead headers. There was a nice set on Ebay a few years ago, and Russ Martin bought them and had pics on his website. Those pics are gone now, so I'd love to get a look at yours. I've thought about making a set for my '54 Special. -Brad
These are pics of some Olds headers I snagged off another thread here. These are the ones I'm using as inspiration to fab the ones for my coupe. I still don't think there were any Belonds for SBC, although if there were I'd love to see pics of a set. Anybody ever see a set? I'm actually making both sides like the lower header to properly clear my pedal rods on the coupe. My build thread..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7117318#post7117318
Some people have more money than brains. Are they salvageable? If nothing else, I'd think the unions and collectors could be saved. Damn. -Brad
Probably would have been interesting out of the hole but a real waste of a super cool powerplant. You could lay some serious rubber with that weight in the front though!
Koz, I have a set (informed by my California "expert" who went through my car before I bought it) of original Belonds from the early 50's (or late 40's?) on my 40 Deluxe hot rod that was in CA all of its life until I brought it here. It is over at my buddies getting some help on the Columbia two-speed and when I get it back, I will try to take some pics. Otherwise, you are welcome to come to Chicago and crawl all over it!
Ebert, Since a black '40 coupe is on my ultimate hot rod list don't be surprised if you find some old guy sleeping on your porch one morning waiting for you to get up! I remember the flattie headers well. I think the Olds type are the closest to what I need and I just want to make sure the repops I'm buiding are in character for the time period. I'll have pics soon.
I'm using two right side headers on my 324 one unmodified upside down on the driver side and chopped and rewelded the other to mirror it on the passenger side
Very nice Paul! I'm planning on using two left side headers to tuck the dumps inside the frame rails and keep the exhast inside the frame rails, kinda' opposite of what you did. My biggest problem has been getting the center siamese bore to look right. I'm on set three of the centers and still can't get the look I want. The Olds ones are a bit narrower than the SBC so the just look too "Chevy". I'm going to make up some different tooling tonight and hopefully have it nailed.
I knew the guy that was putting it in an S-10. Joe Vitale, now deceased. He had the engine and a dead S-10 and thought, "Oh, what the hell.....the S-10's worth nothing and I want to run the engine". You must have bought it on Ebay. I told Joe at the time that I wouldn't have hacked up the headers, but........
Thought you guys might like to see how far I got tonight. I'm fabbing out of 16 ga. U bends. As was mentioned above I'm gas welding to get the "look". I dressed the center tube but I'm not sure I like it. I might lay a row on top to get that kind of rough look back.. Your thoughts?
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