WOW ! that's like having a really good dream - except you don't have to wake up to realize that's all it was . do you have anymore pix , banjo ?
hi claymore - like ffr428 said , there were no 428s in GN - at least they weren't run by the factory teams . IIRC tho , HM was trying to sell turnkey ford race cars [for $10,000.00 ! ] immediately after ford quit racing in 1970 . i believe they were able to offer them for this price because they were leftover / used race cars with 428s installed . i don't believe this deal went over very well , tho , and i don't know how many cars they sold this way . as to the 427 vs. boss 429 , ford had planned to introduce the boss 429 in the new talladegas and spoiler IIs at the 1969 daytona 500 . however , big bill ruled that ford hadn't produced enough bosses or spoilers to meet his min. prod. rules [tho he conveniently overlooked these same rules in '63 and '64 to let chevy and mopar , respectively , race their illegal engines...but i digress ] . ford had to pull out last year's 427s , and everyone , including the 2 mercury teams , had to run a talladega . in protest , ford would not allow their new cars to be called "talladegas" without the intended bosses , so you'll note that the cars in the pix with "427" on the hoods also say " torino 'COBRA' " on their flanks . by the atlanta 500 , ford had finally produced enough bosses and spoilers to suit france , so the talladega name was finally spelled out on the ford quarters , and "429" was boldly painted on all of the hoods . and just to put a bit of icing on the cake , cale went on to win that race in his boss 429 powered spoiler II . bosses went on to almost totally dominate the season . i've been trying to post something that might better tell the story , but i can't get it to go thru . i'll try again later . jack
Bill France personally visited the Boss 429 Mustang Plant in Brighton, Michigan to see that the engine was actually being installed in a certain quantity of production vehicles. "Trust, but verify". I guess he was snookered too many times in the past !
but mercury DID snooker him ! it's reputed that only something like 350 or so spoiler IIs were built [ of the 500 required ] , but the nascar rep apparently counted at least 500 when he showed up at the merc plant to verify the production numbers . how did merc do this ? with just a little eyeball trickery . at the same time merc was building the spoiler II , they were also building the spoiler [ you had to know that a "one" had to preceed the "two" , right ?] . the "regular" spoiler looked just like the II , but without the droop snoot . in other words , it was a regular cyclone painted the same way the IIs were painted... and ALL of those spoilers were available in only two color combos : white with red top [ cale yarborough spl. ] , or white with blue top [ dan gurney spl. ] . when merc parked the 500 cars in a giant lot for nascar's inspection , they placed all of the 350 or so IIs in front , then filled the remaining rear slots with standard , blunt nose spoiler Is . obviously , nascar's rep did not walk down the rows of all of these identically "appearing" mercs to examine each and every nose . so for once - that we know of - ford got away with something . 'course , dodge got away with building a lot less than 500 of their charger 500's, also .
And you all are always cutting ol' Yunik all the time......... but seriously, I did not know about the boss's and can not recall Petty driving a Ford during this time. Anyway, if I knew that, I had forgotten it until I saw your postcard set. Great historic artifacts! Tom S. in Tn.
hey tom - i don't mean to be cutting on ol' smoke all of the time , but it seems to me folks keep posting that he was this poor , misunderstood ol' country boy who never meant to offend anyone - and of course was as honest as the day is long [in a stock car racing , non-cheating sort of way ] . if you folks will stop writing that he didn't cheat . i'll TRY not to write that he did . ah say , i'll TRY . yep, ol' richard went blue - bluer than his mopars - in '69 , when chrysler wouldn't let him drive a dodge [ rather than his plymouth] in '69 . richard had to fight off the FoMoCo hordes in '68 with a tricked up road runner that almost - i say almost - made junior's yellow bannana look like grandma's showroom stock going-to-church putsemobile . when he was refused permission to switch over to the dodge camp so he could drive the new dodge daytona in '69 , he looked into ford's offer of a new talladega for next year , and signed up . plymouth was so upset about this that they developed a plymouth version of the winged dodge - the superbird - to lure richard back . it worked , but it took a year , as petty drove the full '69 season in a ford - winning his first race [ riverside ] , plus a bunch of others , and finishing second in the championship to david pearson . jack
I had forgotten all about this, but the 68' Plymouth car you refer to had a stupid looking sprayed on vinyl top to hide Yunik like styling I think is socially appropriate (politically correct?) way to refer to it, but I had forgotten he drove a Ford in 69'. Now get me straight Jack; Petty drove the Torino the whole 69 season, and then went back to Mopar and drove a Superbird in 70'? We were drag racing at this time, but this comes back to me. One more quick question and I'll go: Was Petty's Torino a Petty enterprise car or a H&M prepped one ?? Tom S. in Tn.
hey tom - you don't have to run off so fast . correct - petty drove the torino for the whole '69 season - if you don't count those last 2 or 3 races in '68 that counted toward the '69 season ...and i'm not sure nascar was still doing that in '68-'69 . for that matter , i don't know why they ever did it that way , as it never made sense to me . but from the riverside 500 [ which he won ] thru the last race in '69 , petty drove a ford . and petty's road runner had more than just a spray on "vinyl" roof . the windshield was laid waayyy back - so much so that the roof came loose from the windshield header during the race ! [ "stock car racing's" cover showed richard on the car during a pit stop doing everything he could to fix the roof . they used a lot of racer's tape ! ] . the roof may have been chopped , and the nose / grille had been angled back about as much as the windshield . the car was so obviously cheated up that it's been reported that nascar told the pettys to be sure to NOT park the car near any stock road runner , as the differences would be made that much more obvious . these mods were done with nascar's approval , and were necessary if the car were to come close [ ah say , CLOSE ] to the speeds of the new fastback torinos . but it was no cigar , and petty's , which was the only plymouth cheated up like this , was the only mopar to qualify near the front of the field - IIRC . the black "vinyl" roof was meant to distract everyone's attention away from the very obvious mods . and it worked . i saw that race on closed circuit TV [ there was no live nascar on TV in those days ] , and the announcers kept speculating on the "vinyl" roof , as petty's cars had been a single color blue in recent years . i remember one announcer speculating that , as lee petty was an avid golfer , maybe he'd discovered that the dimpled surface of a golf ball helped it aerodynamically , so he'd applied that theory to the race car . not once did anyone mention the obvious modifications . this had to be smoke and mirrors , however , as i believe the announcers HAD to see the alterations , but were under orders from nascar to overlook them . i believe nascar has always maintained a fair amount of control over it's announcers . as to who built petty's torinos , the first one [ a torino , not a talladega - tho i believe it was later converted to a talladega ] was built at HM . ralph had the car shipped to california for the riverside race , but gave specific orders to have the car arrive somewhat late , as he didn't want the petty crew to have enough time to mess with , and screw up , the chassis set-up - which he was sure they would do . ralph was THE chassis guru in nascar , if there ever was one , and he'd apparently set-up the chassis before it ever left N.C. , so it was probably ready to go . remember - the petty's were used to working with a torsion bar front end , where the fords used coils . as was often the case , ralph was right , as petty won the race . this car was later wrecked at a short track , and i believe crushed . after that first car , i'm not sure , but i believe the pettys built at least some of their fords . i've seen photos recently of the pettys [ including richard ] building a 1970 torino for the following season . these very late season photos also indicate that petty wasn't committed to going back to plymouth until very late . as to the engines , i've read where richard said it took a while for maurice to get the hang of building a ford , so i guess that's an indication that they were building their own engines , as opposed to getting them from HM , as most / all [ with the exception of smokey , who also ran a ford that year ] of the other ford teams did . jack
The main reason for the vinyl top on the Road Runner was the roof was really wavy from the acid dipping. The roof is welded to the halo bar in the front and the acid dipping made the sheet metal so thin it broke in the race. Dale Inman's eyes still light up when you ask him about that car!
hi steve - i didn't realize you were "over here" , also [ steve is a member of randy ayers' nascar forum , also . ] i guess i'll have to watch my "Ps" and "Qs" even more closely , to be as accurate as i can be . well , i'm certainly not going to argue with YOU , steve , as you actually know all of these folks . but i'd always read / heard that the "vinyl" top wasn't actually vinyl at all , but rather sprayed on paint ....unless it was some sort of spray on vinyl [?] . but it did have the effect [ intended or not ] of distracting attention away from the body mods , as that's all the announcers talked about . incidentally , roger penske had the same problem with mark donahue's trans am camaro in 1969 . the roof became distorted or wavey from leaving it in the acid bath too long . his solution was the same , also - add a vinyl top to hide it . only , IIRC , they actually did use vinyl . and one more thing - plymouth used a vinyl [ actual vinyl ] top on the 1970 superbirds , but it was meant to cover up rough body work rather than acid dipping . thanks , steve --- and welcome . jack
Here are some pics of an air breather that i know very little about, was the zippers common? .When was the two 4bbls used ,,? On A 429 OR 427?thanks
hi banjo - in GN , 2 four barrel carbs were legal on fords from late 1966 thru the end of the 1968 season . they were only used on the 427 ...never on the boss 429 . i've seen some pix of those air filters with zippers . i don't know how common they were , however . jack
I believe the zipper was use by alot of teams. I have seen tape used also for a seal. I have a 66' Fred Lorenzen Galaxie that I restored. I used a 4" wide piece of rubber to seal my air cleaner. Any plans for the parts? What a find. I am looking for a set of Holman Moody 427 headers. Find any in that trailer? This how I found it.
Excuse my ignorance here, but what are we looking at in the 2 lower photo's Banjo? Are these parts also to the breather assy? Tom S. It's hard to imagine these artifacts are 45 or more years old at this point in time.
Yes those are original rear fender extensions for a talladega i hope you can see on the inside of the one pic how they were tig welded . yes those are nos i believe the old trailer had about 5 sets of those in it along with nos front bumpers and head light bezels, and one nos air breather that has never been punched out,, if it is ok i could post more pics of some of these old parts , some have tags that say holman moody and some say race bumpers,, I had never seen any of these parts till we went in the trailer
Is that a '70 Torino body on it? What year was it last raced? How did you come across it? Sure is nice now. I love race car and part finds! Kevin
The vinyl roof on the Road Runner was the spray on type, pretty popular in the late '60's. I cant tell you guys how much I enjoy this thread. When I worked on Benny Parson's cars in 1975 we got the engines from Ralph Moody. He would occasionally come to the shop and tell us in no uncertain terms in that New England accent where we were messing up. I still use the basics he taught us. I was thrilled to see him many years later having lunch in Mooresville and he seemed pleased I recognized him. Holman-Moody was hard core racers with factory money but Ralph never let politics get in the way of going fast.
Steve,It's great to see you on here. I became a fan of yours during your M.Martin/Roush years. How is your son doing?
Any plans for the parts? What a find. I am looking for a set of Holman Moody 427 headers. Find any in that trailer? Wow really nice job there,I do not have any headers, sorry , as for the trailer and all the parts, I am going to have both of the Banjo cars and the trailer with all the banjo parts, and holman moody parts on exhibit at the Forge Show in Sevierville TN, Sept. 9-10. It is an inside show show it should be a nice place for the exhibit. After that I have no other plans. I will include a picture of one similar to the one you have on your car and also a NOS air cleaner that has never been punched. , This how I found it. [/QUOTE]
Thanks for asking about shane. He is home with his mother and I and goes to therapy every day. He has progressed way farther than was predicted. He can feed himself and use a phone and a computer. He is recently returned from the Mayo Clinic where they pronounced him internally fit and were amazed at his progress as the level of his injury usually means you are unable to breathe on your own much less move all your extremeties. In October he returns to the Shepherd Center in Atlanta where he was last winter to attend their walking class. They are the best in the business and our family is blessed. I know this is off topic but I appreciate the prayers and thoughts for shane from everyone-steve
[/QUOTE] Darn Banjo, Wished you still lived in Indy a no place so I could see your stuff up close. Tom.
smokey's boss 429 made the most hp , but he wasn't "cheating " when he ran the ford LOL smokey hater jack ..everybody else loves him
Kevin, I was told it was a 71' torino. The car was last raced in Iowa on Dirt in 73'. The car was found in Nevada, IA. The prevoius owner had most of the parts to put it back together. The best part was it still had it's HM tag on the firewall. That's how I found out what the car was besides what the owner told me. I even found the owner that originally bought the car from HM. He lives in Iowa also. He paid 4000.00 back in 1967. I have the original bill of sale from HM and title to the car. If you look back in this tread, I posted the complete story on this car and more pictures. Regards, Jeff
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