Drag raced tonight... fun! (updated with video!)

Ehren:

Thanks for report. Yup you have the disease and there is no cure.
Anyway as far as your re-curving and octane deal. You HAVE to read your plugs. Look it up. They will tell you what she needs. Or if you have something to worry about. Is the timing stable at RPM and whats it all in at. Big thing is that you don't want to hurt engine.
On your spinning this is cool and sucks at same time. If you want to win in Bracket racing its all about consistency. Spinning is not conducive to this. Sounds like your tight in money dept. but you have to get this under control.
Winter is coming so if you continue down this path be thinking Rear end work , Gear- tire. Spinning bad(unless you like it) You street drive this so go Posi.
Also you have to put a shift kit in it. . That 1-2 shift is anemic. Your loosing time and the tranny hates you for this.
Also also...... Getting car faster is what its all about. But and a big Butt. If you start hooking the car up. Think the whole program out. Spinning is a way for energy to get released. Go through the whole load path (Tire through Steering wheel) and see what the weak link is and get it right.
Am I making sense?? Trying to help but not be a war and peace novel.
Have fun be safe. You got it bud.
Luke

 

Hi Rob:
Glad you got to have some fun.
We have rained out the last 3 weeks for our club race night.
What a friggen year. Try again next week...
Best to ya
Luke

 

LZ - thanks again. Yeah money is tight. And I really don't want to put slicks on the car because I know that's when things start to break. My goal at this point is to get the car running consistent 12.7-8s on street tires and my current 2.79 gear (maybe put a posi in it but $$$ is short).
I really think I can do it. That would keep me happy for a long time. That was pretty much my goal from the beginning. I don't really care about bracket racing. I just wanna go to test and tune night, have fun and dust off as many late models as possible.
As far as reading plugs - They always look good. I never see speckling or the little shiny flakes that would indicate detonation. They are generally a very even tan color. I'm pretty careful with my timing and running the carb a little rich because damaging my engine is not worth an extra 1/10th. The problem is I'm only reading the plugs after idle. To get an accurate reading, shouldn't I be shutting the car down immediately after the run and then checking them? I also read that to get an accurate reading I need to look down inside the plug for a ring of color that indicates the WOT air fuel ratio. Can anyone confirm this?
As far as the shift kit goes- I'd be interested in it because it's cheap. Would it make my 1-2 shift more crisp? Keep in mind I'm shifting the car manually. It goes like this - Launch from about 700rpm... spins a little,... wind it out to 5500 rpm... right before the 1/8th mile I shift to 2nd... rpm drops to about 3700... run the whole top end in second... through the traps at 5500rpm. The only thing I worry about is straining the tranny too much. I'd rather not have it slam in to gear.
I know it seems contradictory; I'm trying to run 12's and still baby the car. Fact of the matter is, I'd still like to hop in the car and go for a 200 mile drive if I want. So yeah... I'm trying to have my cake and eat it.

 

I use a Hurst ratchet shifter so I can slam it into the next gear without accidently shifting into the wrong gear, it really helps. When I raced mine, it had to be ran like I was trying to break something since I'm running a pretty small engine.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6844129#post6844129

 

Very cool progress. Like Bad Banana said. You already have the power to get the car into the mid to low 12s.

Getting off the line quicker is the key. I don't think sticky tires are going to be your answer right now. As sluggish as you are launching (from what I've read, I cant see the video at work) seems like you need a converter or maybe in intake change.

You didn't mention what intake you have. Hopefully it's a dual plane intake. If it's a single plane that is killing your low end torque. An Edelbrock performer makes power to 5500 which is where your cam falls off.

Once you can get that Pontiac torque figured out THEN you'll need sticky tires. And be prepared for parts breakage at that point.

 

Thirdyfive- thanks. It is indeed a dual plane intake. Its an older Edelbrock P4B. I've been told it's not as good as the newer one they make??? I had a question about that though--- if I want to swap around jets and metering rods do I have to keep them the same side to side because of the intake design?
Say I wanted to run a 65/37 rod on one side and a 70/42 on the other... will one bank of cylinders run leaner than the other???

 

Great updates, and congrats on that new 13.doh!

So is the 2.28 60 ft meaning you are spinning off the line now?

I think you said you are still running an open rearend. I'd still target a posi swap, maybe keep a low 3.00 gear, and then pick up some drag radials or some ET Streets.

 

I wouldn't worry about the intake. If you swapped it for a Performer you wouldn't feel much difference.

I don't know if I'd stagger the rods... but I've never tuned an Edelbrock.

I missed that you have an open rear. I think getting a mini spool or a posi would help a ton in getting you off the line quicker.

You know, I work with guys who have fast cars (3 guys in the 9s and one guy runs 7.30s) and I'm more excited seeing your progress!

 

Yeah haha. There's something really magical about doing it in an 80 year old car... Having an extremely limited budget and chipping away at it little by little makes it really interesting. You get to know the car really well and it becomes very personal. I too have friends that run regularly in the 8.50 index... and they never have any fun!! haha. That's why I'm content with just having fun on test and tune night. Start taking this too seriously or dumping endless amounts of money in it and it just kills the fun factor. Who wants that??

 

Exactly. The buddy I took used to run a pro-street Nova that ran in the 7's. I was afraid that driving my car would be uneventful for him. He honestly had a ball. I would be happy running mine just the way it is, but it shouldn't take too much money to get it a few seconds faster.

 

My 2 cents,

See if you can borrow a Holley carb, but make sure it's know to be good and not one from someone's junk pile.

If you buy a shift kit get a Transgo 400-1&2 Reprogramming kit. Don't buy a B&M kit!

If you're going to buy a new converter get a PTC converter www.ptcrace.com, they will make you one for your combination. They have a 12" converter for 170$ but if you can get the 11" converter but it's 275$.

 

What holley would you suggest? 750 vac secondary? thanks

 

Yes, a 750 vac secondary would be a better choice than a double pumper with the low stall converter and high axle ratio you have.

 

Easiest way to faster times is to bullshit

 

Could be a staging issue....deep / shallow

 

Yup....

 

Till you can't back it up....... If bs is thing....its always slower than it is.....that being said, im taking my 14.20 coupe to the track tonight.....

 

Congrats on the 13.0's!

So lets see, you've made your car faster and safer and you haven't spent a bunch of money. Sounds like its all good to me.

The way your doing it is real Hot Rodding but I'm sittin here dying to see what 3.55's, posi, and slicks would do for ya.

 

Thanks but I'm guessing it would spell the end of my little 8" rear in a hurry.

 

Hey Bud:
Reason I say to look at plugs is that you are doing wholesale changes in timing and mixture. You should watch the plugs not just the slip. There is a ton of info at plug sites. Search. Pre ignition can just show as little flecks on one side of insulator. You need to look at plug with a loupe or magnifier. Its for your benefit. Especially if mixing fuel.
As far as a shift kit goes. It will help the tranny out. Those long shifts are tough on Tranny items. It will be tougher on ujoints but you really really want one. So does the tranny.... OK? Again dont believe me read at Tranny sites.
MY bull Sheet

• Tranny kit You really need one Lock reverse out even if that means putting a barrel bolt on shifter.
• Whats the timing in at and what is it??? Rev to when its all in. Get RPM and degree. it should be rock stable. Is mark on damper readable and reliable? Read again after locking dist. They move. GM,s do not want Vacuum advance on ported vacuum. Check.
• When on a budget Craiglist is your friend. Be on the lookout for your parts.
• Cheap Changes to help ET.
  • Put a 1 inch open spacer under carb. Better for dual plane if horsing , seen on dyno runs. You can make one also. Make sure no vacuum leaks.
  • Electric Fan
  • Did I say shift kit....
  • Put your changes on slip. Log your run. Even write down when you think about something you may have done.
  • Control the slipping. I know your on a budget but this is an ET killer.

If you look at the guy running you, the slip tells a lot. Check his et to speed.
Your having fun thats whats important. Its actually fun to see what little things to do to pick up ET. Although once you get low hanging fruit. Be happy or get the wallet out....
OH PS Get a shift kit.
take care
Luke

 

8 inch parts are tough as they have a demand per availability.
1 minute craigs list search turned this
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/pts/2530035675.html
Its out there search.
Some other possibilities this winter are an early bronco (pre 78) 9 inch
A Versailles rear.
Heard the 8.8's are a plenty and will take some power. Lots of parts.
Your on the cheap so not in cards now but a good thing to shoot for this winter.
Luke

 

Here's a very good article about spark plug reading...

http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/reading-spark-plugs.html

and

http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/how-to-read-plugs.html

 

8" rear? What is that from? Do you mean 8.8 from a Ford?

 

no, Ford had an 8" rear... drop out center like a 9"


I watched the video... man that thing is a pig out of the hole.

A rule of thumb is for every 1/10th you can eliminate in the 60' time is worth 2/10th in the ET. You should be able to get rid of the bog and get a 1.75 or so 60'... which should put you in the mid 12s...

honestly... decent tires... shift kit... and get this thing to leave like it should and you'll need a roll cage for running 11.99 or faster.

way cool!

 

I found a guy in my area that parts out early Broncos. He sells me the 9" rears complete for $150. They have a 3:50 gear, and I just installed a mini spool and chromoly pin for $40. The 3:50 gear seemed pretty good for the 1/4 and the spool will help you a ton.

 

Unfortunately along with my money constraints, I'm also short on time. I just don't have the means right now to swap rear axles. If I manage to squirrel away about 250$ I'll get some wider tires, and a shift kit. Those two items should get me a 12.9x And honestly I'll be tickled to have a 12 sec car with an open 2.79 gear haha.
I also think there is still some tuning I could do to the engine to really max out it's potential. I could invest about 200$ in a wideband o2 sensor so I could really dial in my carb. hmmmmmm...
I was in my early 20's when I put the engine together and I thought a noisy gear drive would be cool. Well it kinda was for the first 500 miles. Now it's just annoying and the fact that it cause useless friction doesn't help either.
There is no question I could get this car close to 11's if I had about 1500 to drop on it - Stall converter, slicks, holley carb, 3.50 posi and maybe some dyno time. Heck I could probably throw a hotter cam in it and some roller rockers. For now though I just figure I'll max out the potential of what I'm currently working with so that if I do some heavier mods in the future it will really wake it up.
Oh and one other thing -- I had this car weighed with me in it at the local dump... tehy told me it weighed 2650 with me in it. Does that shound right to guys? Seems maybe a little heavy compared to some others. But that Poncho engine is kind of a boat anchor. lol

 

Hey Ehren,
2650 sounds about right. For comparison, my fenderless tudor w. 350 engine weighed in at 2740 without driver, which seemed high to me, (my fiberglass roadster weighs about 2200.)
(I think I can shed 150/200 lbs from my Tudor by taking out the backseat, tools, etc. but I still don't think mine'l keep up with you. Seeya at W.O.T.)

 

Failed tech again... they gave me a rejection slip for seat belts not mounted to the frame, plastic overflow bottle, and the drivers seat which the tech guy said was broken. I was so bummed. They let my friend through with a plastic overflow. He had painted it black so I think they believed it was metal. The drivers seat is not broken it's just an old seat that has some play in the recliner. The seat belt thing really surprised me because they are mounted very securely to brackets that I welded. They aren't welded to sheet metal. They are welded to subfloor bracing that I made from 3/4x3/4 steel tubing. Those things would never come off. I really don't see what safety advantage there is in welding the same brackets to the frame. Just gotta do it I guess.
I met my uncle and my dad at the dragstrip and we were all so excited about racing the car together. Neither of them have raced in 40 years. It was gonna be cool. But instead I was just disappointed. I am positive the car would have broken in to the 12's. I put a Transgo 1-2 shift kit in it and put about 2 gallons of 104 octane in it. The car felt really great and the shifts are nice and firm. Oh well. The silver lining was hearing all my uncle's stories about racing in the 60's.
I also helped my dad get his hot rod back on the road for the first time in about 2 years. We went to the Wheels of Time show together on Saturday. So I'm glad that worked out.
The irony of the whole thing just kills me. I can drive the car on a 300 mile round trip but they won't let me run down the dragstrip. yeah yeah insurance blah blah. Meanwhile I see every lame 15 second car running down the strip leaking oil all over, breaking down at the tree, people racing with their windows down, no helmets etc. Sometimes I really think these guys just look at my car and decide they are not gonna pass it because it has some rust and bird poop on it. Whatever it's just a real let down.

 

That is really screwed!! The 1968 I run, I have a plastic overflow and the seatbelts bolt to the floor which is factory. These guys seem like they arte just being A holes!!!

 

Ehren,
That's disappointing. I know you were totally psyched. The tech inspections there seem to be very inconsistant. Anyway, it was good to see you and your dad at W.O.T.