Should we reproduce old speed equipment

I am looking for everyone's opinion on weather or not I/We should reproduce rare old speed equipment. I am kinda on the fence on this because I like to hunt the old stuff, But the problem is when you find it, You normally have to cash in the kids college fund to buy some of it....I mean I have pretty much given up on ever owning a set of kinmont brakes, Or a ardun OHV conversion.....There is a ton of other stuff I would love to have on some of my cars that is just priced out of the park. So I guess what I am really asking is should we spend the rest of our lives wishing we had some of the old speed stuff that only the rich can afford, Or should we focus on reproducing some of it and making it availible.

 

reproduce it then we all could have it.

 

Personally I don't see the problem with reproduction stuff. Lots of ifs and buts to be taken into consideration, financial viability being paramount I'd have thought - if you can't sell enough to cover your own overheads why bother. But for me there's no point in reducing the quality to bring it to market to 'guarantee' sales. Even limited quantity, quality reproduction stuff need not be cheap, but will allow people like you (and maybe me) to own a bit of unobtanium should we so desire at a price that should be a bit more affordable. After all, is there anything wrong with Brookeville '32s, repro Edelbrock Slingshots, Thickstun PM7s, Ardun heads etc? And although some people will always want the real deal, that's simply their choice, and a two tier marketplace priced accordingly. Also, there's got to be huge satisfaction on a personal level in doing something like this and getting it out there, so why not!

 

Reproduce the "old" speed equipment. I don't know how many cars shows I have been to and said "WOW! look at that intake manifold, or carb, or... insert favorite old speed equipment here. I thought to myself, well I'll never see that again, or I'll never be able to get that, or the just don't make em like they used tah. i second the motion to remake some of the good ol stuff, there is certainly a market out there for it, both domestically and abroad, I mean look at the aussies, and the 265 hemi six.

 

Times are tough and getting tougher, if you know what I mean $$$$$. I have seen a trend in the amount of real vintage speed equipment that is hitting the market, as hoarders..(like myself), are thinning the herd. There`s enough reproduction crap on the market already...and the profit to be made on a quality product , might be minimal at best ?

 

Trad and Nintendo nailed it---should bring prices down if scarcity is relaxed a little.

 

If this generation will live forever reproduce the stuff! The reality is like the Model T, demand will diminish as we continue to thin out the herd. I would be very hesitant in investing in the tooling etc needed to crank out some of this stuff knowing that not only do i end up satuating the market but the market is uncontrollably shrinking. For those of you with super deep pockets, try it, i will gladly enjoy your efforts. Since i do not have deep pockets there will always be that "holy grail"!

 

Larry has it right. The "Holy Grail" aspect makes the build.

 

larry is also correct, the "old timers" that did the stuff, like sand casting and some of the methods like die manufacturing are going the way of the dinosuar. these trades are no longer followed, unlike blacksmithy. It will become increasingly harder to do, or find someone to do some of the replica stuffs. I, myself am very interested in leaning about some of this, but alas, even in my location all of the old timers have moved on, retired, or are sadly pushing up daisies. CNC machining, and large batch csating are taking over and it will become difficult to glean a profit from such ventures unless you have "deep pockets" China is buying all of our scrap and selling it back to us for 100 times more this doesn't help either. I want to do something, but what? *sigh* stay kool HAMBers, I'm going to bed.

Sgt Kevin A. Davies, USMC

 

I think our thoughts about this should be positive. Look at just how much better our abilty to improve has moved forward. Think about OHV conversions for the four and flathead engines. Then about the work done later to improve the twelve port heads for some OHV inline sixes. Idea men like Don Ferguson, Arias, Toro, Edelbrock and many others are the lifeblood of what we do. I have even seen vastly improved OHV heads designed to improve small block V-8 performance. Isn't that what we are all about? Look at how vastly improved the fuel delivery and management systems have become. Not to mention HEI systems too. I vote YES!
Normbc9

 

Just a couple years ago, spider caps were like $250, now you see them on eGay for $135 a set. Now if someone would just repop the little trim rings that go around them.

 

Lets not let this thread get political and all. He asked a very good question.
I believe in reproducing classic parts so that the average guy can have something cool, as long as you ALTER THE ORIGINAL DESIGN SOMEWHAT.

Some parts may have design patents on them. Also it's bad Karma to re-pop something and pass it off as original.

Say you want to repop Kinmont brakes. Add an extra vent hole or something. Or the Ardun stuff, change the font slightly, or delete an existing casting line.

 

i wish someone would make some skinny slot wheels...im sick to death of seeing old wheels going for the same price or higher than new ones....all i want to do is build a decent looking gasser..

 

I'd like to say as a person that is in the manufacturing side of this, sand casting and die cast isnt dead at all, i've personally work as a green sand & air-set molder and die cast operator, which btw making sand casting molds is the hardest job iv ever done, id rather pour 1200lbs of molten metal in a day than making sand cast molds.

Creating the tooling and the fixtures to machine the castings is the two steps that are by far what make manufacturing so expensive, you'd be amazed at how cheap it is to actually make the part. As time goes on tooling has actually become much cheaper, now a days most of our patterns are designed on CAD and we print them out of a 3D printer and mount them to a board and they are ready to run, we still cut some patterns from CNC when its needed.

Being in the foundry and CNC business i've actually be wondering this question to, i don't know much about engine components for and engine before 64' so i really have no idea where to start or what would actually have a good market. If i could get some input on this i might look into it, if there is a particular part a lot of people need, i can design all the tooling myself and have them cast and machined.

 

There are points to both sides. I would like some cool stuff reman so you could have the chance to have that part. I also agree it should be different in some way as to tell everyone that it is a repop. Then some things should not be done to keep the super reet parts the holy grail. Cost is a big factor, if the cost to repop is so high that the parts are more the the orig go for, than whats the point. If I am going to pay a butt load for a part, I rather find an orig.

 

They repop 409 heads and blocks now, why not do the Arden flathead conversion. Made in the USA I think that it would help keep "tradition" in traditional hot rodding. And enable more people to have the parts we enjoyed back in the day.

Pat

 

Hard to say. One side is that it would be nice to have a good source for old hard to find stuff but on the other side it would kill the social aspect of our hobby. Summit, Speedway, Jeggs and Ebay have killed swapmeets! There are way less guys at the meets, half the fun is enjoying the hunt and spending half the day BSing with other car guys.

 

i made stamping dies for authentic old tractor mufflers
everyone wanted to buy them
but they did not sell
threw all the inventory in a box and sold it all

if you want to do it for the fun of it go for it
or make sure you got real buyers
was a expensive mistake among many

 

Take a product that seems popular. Determine costs (tooling and production) to make a minimum run. Add a reasonable profit for you, and come up with a retail selling price. Advertise this and see how many SOLID ORDERS you get. You will then have a feel for whether you can do the work or not. I can attest to the fact many will tell you "I really wish you would reproduce this item"; then when you have invested your money and ask them about an order "Oh, its a stock item, I may order when (if) I need one!".

Someone posted about doing something different on each reproduction piece. I would agree, both from the standpoint of preventing your product to be mis-represented after it leaves your hands (with a possible law suit), AND improving the product. The previous poster mentioned an additional vent on brakes. I would suggest that reproducing an intake manifold with the old "square" (3.75 x 3.875 inch) bolt pattern would be better served by redoing the plenum and bolt pattern to accept a more modern carburetor. (Although, we have lots of the old square pattern carbs ). You might try speaking to someone thoroughly familiar with the demand and ask for input.

Above all, (my opinion, others will differ) if you build it, build it quality!

Jon.

 

the biggest thing over all that dictates cost is how many people will buy it. If one person wants one part remade it would be a lot, say the tooling for it is $1600 and the casting and machining for one piece is $60, so a total of $1660 one person would have to pay for one part. but lets say theres 20 people that want it, so now i can sell each part for $140(1600/20+60) and have the tooling completely payed off and still make profit off it. Product cost all depends on how big the market is.

 

We are thinking about making an 'SP' top for a holley 94 - since the 'sp' top was available for the stromberg only then this is a situation where the original concept is being applied for a different application.

 

I say go for it.
Original parts are still original parts, repops are still repops. If someone has the coin for original stuff, so be it. You want true original, you pay for true original. I don't, and I would like to have some vintage stuff, but I can't afford a lot of it. If someone were to make new parts that looked vintage, I'd be a customer. These true vintage parts will disappear or become unattainable for everyone of a working class income eventually, and without someone reproducing the vintage parts, the "Traditionally styled Rod" might very well disappear with them. This hobby has become too expensive as is for a lot of folks, anything to keep it affordable for the average Joe can only be a good thing. It's no different than fiberglass bodies in my eyes.

 

I almost hate to give my $.02 but here it goes.

I suppose the exclusivity of some of these parts and the wow factor is what makes the price as high as it is. Couple that with the fact that some of these manufacturers only made limited quantities in the day and now 60+ years later we shouldn't be surprised that only a few have survived. Supply and demand you know. You get a couple of guys with a lot of money bidding on something and the next thing you know they're comparing the sizes of their er...wallets.

For me, I've always enjoyed seeing stuff that nobody else has. That can mean anything you want it to. I have wanted a Nicson or McGurk valve cover for a Chevy 235 for years. Found a handful of 'em in that time and couldn't afford a damn one of 'em.

In the meantime, I've made my own sandcast mold, not a repo or copy but A.L. Kaempfer designs if you're picking up what I'm laying down. Well there is a foundry here in town that is owned by an old man and it was handed down from his grandparents to his parents and so on. That foundry, almost out of business btw, used to cast carburetor parts for the old Carter Carburetor factory in downtown St. Louis.

So in essence, I'll have three Chevy 235 valve covers (the only three to exist) that were cast in the same foundry and by the same family as countless Carter Carbs. To me, and maybe only me, that's cool Hot Rod Shit you just can't hardly buy. My name isn't Ted Halibrand or Arkus-Duntov but you won't find one of those at the local cruise night either.

Just my $.02.

Andy from STL

 

Of course, you can easily tell the difference between the original W motor parts and what's being made now. I can see the points of both sides; I understand people's consternation at not being able to find and/or afford a certain intake or pair of valve covers that they'd like for their rod, but I also don't want things like my 216/235 Sharp valve cover or Olds Edmunds valve covers to become something you see on every car owned by someone with a Visa card either. Think about this, though....what if the "don't reproduce it" attitude carried over to things like body panels and soft trim? Most of us would be shit out of luck.

 

double edged sword , look at 97 carbs . There should be a clear distinction between original and trying to look original so 20 years down the road some does not buy a new one thinking they bought an original

 

how about this, instead of repoping old stuff why not come up with a "new" traditionally minded product?

Other companies have tried and failed miserably because they just dont get "it"

think about those horrible headlight frenching kits that auto loc sells
(sorry if youhave those on your car, no offense meant but I am not such the fan)

or all of these silly gauges, you know what makes stewart warners look good?
they're clean and simple!

Maybe make a stove bolt header or manifold that has a traditional design, I dont mean traditional feel I mean like if you found it you would think damn, I've never heard of this intake, this thing must be super rare?

make your own fuel blocks, not machined out of billet but cast out of aluminum!

make a flat head intake that is a simple 2 pot high rise design and when you cast it have cowtown embossed in square block letters like the early edlebrocks!

I've got ideas for days but I am broke for years, so you gotta do it!!!

make it happen bro!

 

I think the orginal question was "should it be done". An ethical kind of question. Not one of costs or price. I say yes, it should be done. Just DO NOT market it as "original or use a makers name". Insure it is known for what it is, a "re-pop". Those who want and can afford the orginal will find it. Those who want something that works, will buy yours. Example. I have been looking for a NOS or even good used set of Mercury Super Marauder valve covers for five years. When I find a set, i will buy them. Until then, I bought a re-pop set from a supplier that re-pops them. They are very cool, just not original. My 2 cents worth

 

it depends on who's buying. are you buying a repro because thats the part you need and it works best or are you buying some oddball original that works ok so you can say you have one on your car?

 

For those people hoping someone will reproduce Ardun heads so that they can get in on a cheap set. They are being reproduced and have been for years. 14 Large. That's right $14,000 the pair. Get in line. But I can understand the market for Ardun heads. If it's a Fenton valve cover that you want, and the only reason you want one is that it's old and rare. Well punching them out seems to defeat the purpose, doesn't it? I know a guy who wanted some rare finned valve cover for his Simca Abarth. So he used a stock cover and with bondo, JB weld, and some sheet aluminum made a reasonable replica only a little bigger. Took it to a foundry in South City and pretty soon he had a Abarth looking valve cover. Now Bob could have sat around wishing somebody would start making them. Or he could do what he did. Which one got him the valve cover?

 

bro, I feel the same way!

I would hock a left foot for a fenton or a nicson and esp a Mcgurk valve cover, I can buy an offy and a wayne all day long and I'm not really that interested unless it was for freee.

so I bought a wixski valve cover, see guys this is what I am saying, its kind of a knock off of the old milk truck valve cover but any one that kinda knows what one is knows that it is not it.

He took a rad clean simple design, used his last name like most did and made a rad valve cover that is quality and I can say that I am damn proud to own one!!!

also with the repop stuff you always have some ahole trying to pass new stuff as originals,

I see it all the time with fentons.

but I will admit if some one made a wayne head for a 235/261 I would have to buy it...

yes I know that makes me a hypocrite...

honestly I would sell my soul and buy one now if I could find one.