Frank, I have a question.. I've noticed that no one has mentioned the Pantera project (the last big FoMoCo paycheck) that we did at H&M. Is that because of the year of the car & some HAMB policy??? Seems like I saw something about nothing newer than '64 (I think) & I didn't know if that was a factor. Thanks, Rick
hi rick - just speaking for myself , and not for frank or anyone else , i haven't heard of any "year" or time policy . in fact , i just posted an HM ad that was in a current magazine . i also didn't know , or don't remember , that HM was involved with ford's pantera project . how about you telling us about it ? if you worked at HM , you're way up on the rest of us , and must have many interesting stories to tell . when did you work there ? jack
How about one of these Jack ? Believe it or not, I used to race with leftover hand me down FoMoCo FE parts. High risers and a Tunnel Port once, all obsoleted by the time we got them and unable to be replaced outside H & M sources. Then, I had to get serious about comp and later pro-comp eliminator when we switched from gasoline. Can you recognize what kind of Fairlane the 64' is ? hint: I can't believe we cut a opening in the teardrop hood for the carbs to go through after a BB competitive brand motor was installed. Believe me though...... this was not my car and FMC parts were out or reason to stay competitive, that's why I was able to be able to get it. If I had the stuff that I used up trying to drag race, let alone what had already been used up before I got hold of it, I could put a kid through Vanderbilt Univ. today. It was obsolete rare then, but today it's rarity is unreal. Tom S.
hey tom - i'm going to go WAAAYYYY out on a limb and guess that's a thunderbolt . that's really neat - not many people can say they owned a thunderbolt . do you still have it ? darn shame it had un-ford power , tho . either of those pix would be great for an anavatar - but please don't show that shameful thing under the t-bolt's hood . the t-bolt , itself , would be embarrassed !!
You must not be from where I came from. Ford and Chevy fights were a regular thing, specially at the dirt tracks. The same driver that we pulled for in a Ford would get bOOed if he started driving a Chevy. There were few drivers I pulled for that weren't by the make of their car. I was an Earnhardt fan when he drove for Bud Moore but when he went with Chevy I gave up on him. Same with Bobby Allison and H&M, Buddy Baker with Moore and others. Not the least of which was Jeff Gordon who rode Ford to stardom in Busch and then switched to Chevy and Hendrix, I've had no use for him since. There are others but I don't want to take up too much of the topic so I'll stop here.
...i had to look at the avatar to see if genuine jack had written that ! ...... DARN , i like this thread !!
Jack, since I haven't seen a yeah or nay from Frank (or anyone else yet), I'll refrain from any Pantera talk..... don't want to get anyone's panties in a wad. I left H&M in '72 (at the end of the Pantera project) & went back to Ford R&E Ctr in Dearborn. I was about 26 at the time & several of the long-time guys were talking of the eventual dooms-day picture that they thought was just around the corner due to the Ford money cut-off. More than one said they could see the "writing on the wall". IF... only big John had been around for another 10 or 20 or 30 years.......... He & Mr. Moody were two of the finest men I have ever had the honor to be around. Rick (Pops, I'll send you an email with the info, thanks)
looks like the HM ad that clymore posted for me [showing the falcon] isn't showing here. please check it out [above] . and thanx once again to claymore for helping me out . i was going to wait a while before i posted this , and i won't get into the whole story yet , but pops1532 asked about HM making/selling 6 cyl. intakes . nascar had a very short lived [1960-'61] compact division , meant for the new small cars from ford , gm , mopar , and some foreign cars . ford - [unofficially- they weren't back in racing yet] commissioned HM , bill stroppe, and edelbrock to develop 3-carb intakes for the new falcon . HM ultimately offered theirs over the counter as a kit . the above ad tells all about it . unfortunately , i don't think the ad is very readable . anyway , i'll tell the story at a later date . and i believe someone posted a photo of a big ford 6 intake, with the HM logo , in an earlier post .
oops !!! i made a mistake . and that NEVER happens ! joel - i was saying that i didn't think your photo was from 1966 , as few ford teams had fairlanes yet . i kept thinking about this and finally got up off my lazy butt and checked it out . as it turns out , junior did have a fairlane in '66. however , this pic was not taken at daytona . it's the national 500 at charlotte in oct . you can see the first 4 cars in the line-up , which matches perfectly with the nat'l 500 line-up [ that's pops in smokey's un-ford in 3rd - he exited after 93 laps with engine failure ] . the second photo - the cover of "stock car racing" - shows the same car in the same race . i BELIEVE that's the only time johncock was in that car . he finished 4th . i compared all of the contingency decals in the 2 photos, and they all match - except one . i have to guess that someone put the goodyear decal on the front fender shortly after the first photo was taken . jack
CALLING DR. CRAFT.... i know you're looking for pix of this car , so i thought i'd post it for you . this is augie pabst at sebring , 1964 . for those who don't know , john is restoring this car . it's the former "house car" at HM - they put "guest drivers" in this car in selected races .
Here in Dixie I have been to tracks that were segregated; not black and white, but GM and Ford at different levels up and down the spectator stands. Dodge & Plymouth people were around in between. I stated this earlier, but in the old days, the real danger of a knife fight was practically guaranteed, if not after a race in the pits, then during a race in the stands. And don't kid yourself, the manufacturers relished this kind of primal loyalty that would be impossible to find today. There was a major paradigm shift when the sport went from stock cars to front wheel drive sheet metal on specialty fabricated custom chassis, but once Asian sheet metal and engines were allowed, the sport changed to an entirely different animal with an entirely different audience. There is proceeding discussion about the Hall of Fame and who should be in there. That was an entirely different NASCAR and sport altogether. The real sport of auto racing is gone never to be back. I'll keep saying it; There is nothing that even closely resembles auto racing left in the present day. Tom S. in Tn. P.S..... Jack, That T'Bolt was not mine, but a friend of mine who I raced with a couple years when I was younger. Another guy had the motor. The car still exists and is owned by another HAMB member here who I have promised not to reveal their identity. I connected with them and went to see this car for the first time since 1973 just this past winter. HAMB has been a wonderfully amazing place for me. Tom S. in Tn.
thanx , tom . we only have ONE guess on the identity of the "mystery driver" of the #22 '57 ford ?! is no one else interested ? and we haven't seen or heard anything from frank in several days . has he absconded with that $100.00 "purse", like the nefarious promoters of old ? .
I couldn't bring myself to root for Baker even when he drove a Ford. Saw him trash a brand new car at Santa Fe Speedway near Chicago. The promoter rented him another ride. He put that one in the wall in the same spot. He said the throttle hung on both cars. LOL Always liked Bobby even when he drove off brands. I always had a lot of respect for him. Gordon found stardom long before he ran a Ford in the Busch series. I thought he under performed in the Ford. I was pissed when he ditched Ford but later I heard more about why he left. Hendrick offered him a deal he couldn't refuse. Worked out pretty good for him but I wonder what might have been if he's stayed with Ford? The Ford VS Chevy thing used to run deep around here. Especially in the 60's and early 70's. More in the pits and on the track than in the stands in later years. Back to H&M.....One of the shoulda, coulda, woulda opportunities I had was when I was a senior in high school and I was building a dirt car. There was a Ford team about 4 hours away going over to the dark side, switching from H&M 427 to SBC engines. They were selling all of their Ford stuff cheap. I mean dirt cheap. There were 6 complete medium and hi-rise 427 side oilers. There were a few bare blocks, lots of extra heads including some tunnel ports, several top loader 4 speeds and a truck load of cranks, cams, pistons and other parts. It was all Holman & Moody stuff. Package deal...$1800!!!!! 427's weren't even close to being legal in my class. I was young and didn't realize that was a once in a lifetime opportunity.
We had similar things happen at GA Int., they put Earnhardt in the track owners car and he backed it into the turn four wall. Luckily Jody Ridley had a spare fuel cell in his trailer and it was put in and Dale won the race that night. We had Tim Richmond there for one big race, the car he was susposed to drive didn't show up so an extra Frankie Grill-Neil Bonnet car that was there in case Dave Mader got rained out at another track was "borrowed" out of their trailer and promptly wrecked by Richmond. He left the track shortly after that and didn't race. As far as Hendrick offering so much money, that's one of the main problems with the sport today too much money and not enough loyalty. I have always had respect for Bobby Allison even when I wanted him out run. I had never heard of Gordon before he ran Busch. I am a Ford man and as a friend once said, "If you cut me I will bleed Ford Blue".
please do not forget teh 1959 Daytona 500! John Buecamp drove a H&M car to victory , but the Rebels did not want a Yankee coming down and taking all their money and women!! It had a 430 engine, and was raced 2 years without a rebuild. One hell of a race car
Jimmy Spencer trashed a modified at Pevely a few years ago. Someone said he hit the wall or another car 11 times in a handful of laps. LOL Gordon became a household name because of ESPN's Thursday Night Thunder. He was very successful in USAC sprints and midgets on both dirt and asphalt. Don't forget Gordon's step dad was still very involved in decisions regarding his career when he went with Hendrick. He's remained loyal to Hendrick despite having some tough seasons and internal problems at Hendrick. I agree that money has really screwed up racing (at all levels, not just NASCAR), but if you look back to the early years of NASCAR very few drivers were loyal to their team, or brand of car.
I read that Johny won by a lap and I've read that he was 3 laps down. I don't know what the truth is, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Big Bill "adjusted" the results to suit his needs.
About 12 or 13 years ago there was a Torino Talledega or Cyclone Spoiler on ebay that Ford had donated to NASCAR. I want to say it was a spoiler. Anyway, the car was covered in signatures of Ford and Mercury drivers, some crew chiefs, and I think some of the folks from Dearborn that were heavily involved in the racing program. Lots of the signatures were by Holman and Moody drivers and maybe even Holman and Moody themselves. I wish I could remember more about who signed it. Mostly I remember how appalled I was that the France family had no appreciation for it's historical; value. The car was obviously meaningless to NASCAR and the France family. It had been passed down through the France family. By the time the guy that listed it on ebay had gotten it, it was in really sad condition. That's a car that should have been preserved and eventually put in the HoF, but instead the Frances trashed it. Anyone know more about that car? It was a street car not a race car.
When are you going to tell, who was driving the #22 57 Ford? The olny pictures of any drivers ,that I have is Fireball and Ralph MoodY.
so , e-code , are you taking a guess ? if you are , or will , that'll only make 2 guesses . let's give it another day , and put out a call for more guesses as to .......WHO DROVE THE #22 RED & WHITE '57 FORD ? this is the biggest spurt of posts in quite a while . keep them coming . and where the heck is frank ? i heard a rumor that he took off for canada to avoid the draft and to keep his $100.00 . c'mon back , frank . i was just kidding about the $100.00 - and nixon ended the draft almost 40 years ago . and i think you [ and i --- and anyone who remembers holman moody ] might be just a tad old to be receiving our "greetings". * jack * for you whippersnappers , "greetings" was how the draft board started their notices of induction .
go back several pages and you'll see where i posted some pix and a story or 2 on the HM '59 t-birds . i've got a few more pix , but i may need some help , as some of them may be "bitmaps" . jack
I'm alittle late to the thread. I never really realized how much H-M made and developed. I also didn't know that they made so many parts for inline sixes. I know a fella who bought a H-M intake for a Ford inline six that he races. The intake was kinda bulky looking but kinda neat. Just thought I'd share.
....good to have you back , frank . so , you'r just like those old promoters...they'd leave town with the purse , and the next time you'd see them they'd be broke . if you'll go back to page 31 and find fordloverracing's post , you'll see that he asked about HM's pantera project , and told how he worked at HM at that time [ early '70's ] , but he didn't want to post anything about it as there is a "ban" [i'll call it] on posting anything after 1970 or so . can we get your ruling on this ? jack
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