Somehow I missed this thread for its' two or so year life. Wow - my loss. Nice job everyone. I'm now looking forward to Sister Anne's new projects and the first sightings of Mike's three-wheeler. Charlie
It is a Messerschmit in the background but the "cycle-car" is just an old drop tank that someone mated to a motorcycle in the 50's and drove around. Awesome.
VINTAGE REVIVAL MONTLHERY7-8 May 2011 Linas-Montlhéry Circuit 7-8 May 2011 will be a magnificent weekend at the famous Linas-Montlhéry circuit. On the track will be 250 pre-1940 vehicles (sports and racing cars and motorcycles, cyclecars and three-wheelers), while in a vintage car and bike park there will be a similar number of pre-1940 vehicles on display. Come and join us for a trip into history, whether on the circuit, in the vintage park or simply as a spectator. The circuit and its surroundings are an outstanding monument to French motor sport. The "Vintage Revival" Association was created by Vincent Chamon (a vintage enthusiast) and Laurent Poulain (a lover of the circuit) who had realised with sadness that the calendar of events at Montlhéry did not include anything which was purely pre-war. 2011 was selected for the initial event in agreement with our Honorary President, Mrs Jacqueline Potherat, being ten years after the death of her husband, who was such a friend to us all. The "Vintage Revival" Association will bring together enthusiasts and clubs with their cars for a private weekend, embracing vintage runs on the circuit, period clothing and even demonstrations on the track by vintage bicycles behind pacemaker motorcycles.
Just a smidge off-topic, but does anyone know if there are plans/blueprints for Henry Ford's Quadracycle available? The MTFCA site had a thread on one and it looked like ALOT of fun!
Nope. I'm afraid that is the absolute antithesis of a cyclecar. If the roll action had been cleverly passive it might have held some interest, but as it stands (or rather leans) ...
While your thinking of possible differentials, They make a trike kit for the honda wing and the bigger harley touring bike that is a diff and those engines have a reverse, cumbersome as it is.... on an off note, I wanted to build one of the mini jegster type dragsters with a John Deere 44 Liquifire sled engine on it....I think that would break the sound barrier...if you could hang on to it...
Hemmings reports this morning that the Czech Velorex company is reintroducing its enclosed, three-wheeled cyclecar. The new versions aren't as good looking as the old, fabric-covered ones; but it proves somebody still thinks the concept is viable. -Dave
That's pretty cool. I've had a Velorex 'chair on a Jawa 350 (factory set up) for a dozen years and it's still great fun. Actually, it wouldn't take much to replicate an original Velorex 3-wheeler... (I've probably got enough old Jawa bits in my garage to do so. ) Vasely vanoce, vsechno (Merry Christmas everyone, in Czech)
*From memory* the early ones of those had a ridiculous system where the passenger changed gear, cantilever steering too, crazy. Thanks Hayden
Please excuse my butting in here just cause it seems like the right place to canvas a pet project and find out definitively if/why it hasn't already been done; a threewheeler using not the 2CV but the Citroen GS/GSA, (given that Blackjack chose VW for availability, development, etc.)? gimme half a chance and i intend to do it, so will be a fixture till then ... steven
While sweet and revvy the GS four isn't exactly a ball of fire. However, the GS hydropneumatic suspension does have a lot of potential, no reason it won't work minus one rear wheel. Though one wonders if something in the Morgan three-wheeler mould ought to have self-levelling suspension That said I'm considering Citroën suspension very seriously for my '31 A project. Something also makes me want such a three-wheeler to be driven by its single rear wheel. GS flat-four, suitable five-speed, and motorbike shaft drive? - even keeping the hydropneumatics. Or 3x3 AWD?
funny you say that - working minus one rear wheel was their party trick (shows off the rear discs, too) - and the GSA was 5 speed and 1.3 ... sorry, make that ... much bigger. such fun to drive that i always wanted to throw all the body away (carefully, that grew on me too) and show off the engine. according to you tube they turbo well, but adding lightness is better, naturally. thanks, steven
Richard Oakes (Blackjack Cars) hasn't sold any VW powered Zero Kits since he brought out his Moto Guzzi powered version. The twin cylinder engine just makes for a nicer car in this case but there are also other advantages of 2 cylinders over 4 (reduced internal engine friction for example) - the new Fiat 500 twinair is the first of many I think. A three wheeler using GS mechanicals was done in the USA in the Mid 1980's - about 100 Trihawks were made; Richard never used the GS engine in the Avion because of poor availability. It would be fairly easy to fit to the 2CV gearbox with some simple chassis mods. Again, though, a Moto Guzzi engine on the 2CV gearbox has been done and is a better way forward. I'm quite happy with my 2CV engined version at the moment though.
thinking of it i also got sick of putting the front back on knowing it would need to come off to fix the exhaust again, and shrouds also need to be removed to see any thing ...
blackjack, have you ever thought of a Model T/Citroën 2CV crossover thing? I've long had the idea that the ultimate basic-mobility vehicle would be something like a cross between a 2CV and a Lotus 7, i.e. a slightly longer 2CV with any of a variety of four-cylinder engines and rwd, but keeping the interconnected suspension. Looking at the 2CV's chassis the similarity to a Model T frame is obvious, though, so a similar hybrid suggests itself there.
thanks blackjack - very much indeed. would have seemed to have been a logical progression so i figured there must have been good reasons - do you think geometry precludes the GS transaxle? ps - and o.t., sorry - was this also from a design of Richard's?
fnqvmuch - main issues in not using the GS engine in the Avion were availability and balance/handling. Not many GSA's around by the mid 1990's when Richard was selling most Avions. If this had been the donor vehicle that builders had to source then he would not have sold the 65 units he did. Going the hybrid route - i.e. putting GS engine on the more common 2CV running gear then 4 cylinder would have stuck out that much further forward of the front wheels. Not ridiculously so - but enough to make it look a little goofy. See the picture below and imagine another pair of cylinders. However it would not be impossible for an owner who wished to do a conversion. The picture makes it pretty clear how it could be done. I've been kicking around the idea of a Panhard flat twin myself.... There have been trikes using the GSA engine, transmission and front clip; have a look at this -it's a hill climber not a road going car but it shows how it could work. Yup - that's Richard's Nova design. One of many kit cars. Here's a more recent one;
There was the Falcon - which is certainly a 2CV/7 cross but it kept the flat twin and chassis; I'd like to see something on the concept you have suggested that, over the years, could take a succession of updated engines, running gear etc. I have thought about using an original T chassis, a fibreglass T bucket, a 2CV engine bolted up to a Type 9 Ford gearbox driving the rear wheels and the suspension & axles from a small English Ford (an Anglia). May do that at some time in the future.
thanks again that special is perfect ... except those spheres. goofy is right, though you meant the motor being way out in front - i agree - for my liking that's an issue even just with the twin so i'll check weight and dimensions, etc before further posting - i know the 5 speed needed changes to the firewall so that weight is back at least. Ned, is it worth considering there is nothing but hydraulic interconnecting lines between the front and rear assemblies on the GS?
The GS hasn't any sort of interconnection front to rear. Hydraulic pressure is indeed supplied from an engine-driven pump, but the front and rear ends each has a height-correcting valve that keeps each respective bit of circuit sealed off from the rest the vast majority of the time. The left and right wheel at each end are interconnected, but the effect of the interconnection is in large measure counteracted by a fairly stout anti-roll bar at each end - or the car would have no roll stiffness. This is not, however, to say that deliberate and effective 2CV-style interconnection can't be introduced into the Citroën system. It's a matter of arranging the suspension cylinders in interconnected pairs, each with a dedicated height-correcting valve. Strictly speaking a pair can share one nitrogen sphere, if the interconnecting hydraulic line isn't too small, as the line connects to the cylinder below the damping valve. I'm interested in the potential that has for relieving the vehicle structure from having to deal with torsional loads, so that fine suspension tuning becomes possible even with very simple, light, and shallow ladder frames. Of course all that is moot if you've got three wheels, but so then is the very concept of rear roll stiffness ...
The Jalopy Journal
