Oxy acetylene welding-Framework?

I’m planning on boxing an A frame and adding a 32 K-member ala Bishop and Tardel. I was wondering, does anyone use oxy-acetylene for framework anymore? I know mig welders rock, and if I had a shop wired to 220 and a unit larger than my Lincoln Pac-Weld I’d use it. What I have is a pretty nice Victor torch and plenty of desire to make the welds look nice. My guess is that the HAZ would be larger, warpage might be more of an issue, and that it would take longer…but wouldn’t it have been done that way back in the day? Anyone have photos of good looking (or nightmare) frames gas welded? Ideas, tips, etc? Maybe I’m just crazy?

 

That's an understatement


I have some headers from an old gasser from late 50s all brazed together. what a mess. They warped the 3/8" flanges so bad that they drill dozens of holes to get them to lay flat.

 

In the 50's on heavy stuff like a frame I used an arc welder, oxy-acetylene for sheet metal or exhaust pipes.

 

back in those days, I would arc the exhaust to the header flanges, and then gas weld from there out.

 

If you pre-heat the weld area with your torch you can weld with the Lincoln weld-pac. Don't remember ever gas welding frames. Before Mig came along used to do everything with stick welder.

 

What you're suggesting is a bad, bad idea.
I understand and appreciate that you want to do it yourself, but you have already spelled out your limitations.
You need to take your frame parts somewhere else. Either, find a friend with a "real" welder in their garage, or take it to a welding shop. If you need to save a few bucks at the welding shop, you could always fit everything at home and tack it together with your "wish it was a real welder" and take it in ready to weld. I own a welding shop and wouldn't be offended if someone brought it to me that way.

JOE

 

Use the MIG, unless you are a glutton for punishment..............

 

Hey,

Whyle it's true that prior to 1942 and the advent of Heliarc welding that most aircraft work was gas welded those welders knew their shit! To pass an aircraft welding test with gas welding you got ONE SHOT, no pin holes, no cut backs, no inclusions PERIOD!
Welds that "look good" arn't always sound! I've seen tig welds with pretty nickle rolls on race cars take a shit under strain. In welding, penatration is the key.The heat required to weld .125 thick stock or better is gonna cause big "issues".

" Humpty Dumpty was pushed "

 

I do have limitations, which is why I'm here, and, thanks to you guys not about to mess up a perfectly good frame. I had honestly overlooked plane ol stick welding. I could have swore that I'd seen some older stories where gas welding was used for just about everything. I still plan on doing it myself, limitations and all, I'll just have to pony up for a real welder first.
thanks again for the advice.

 

Gas welding was used for everything back in the day, except for heavy mat'l, for that, they used the gas torch to heat up the rivets so they could be set! Arc welding replaced a lot of rivets, but gas was very rarely used on anything over 12ga mat'l.
Just my 2c worth, buy a stick welder.

 

Don't even attempt it!!!!----You don't have 220, so go out & either rent OR buy a portable Miller or Lincoln machine that will burn 1/8 stick rod, at least you will be doing the job more effienctly & safely!

 

The frame on the first AMBR Trophy winner by Bill Niekamp was built with a hack saw, a thousand blades, and a drill. He also built a pretty slick 26-27 lakes car later on the same way.

Other guys used their good old Lincoln 225s and oxy-acet rigs.

I'm not a welder, I'm a tacker. The welder makes all my tacks look good and do good.
Try it, it's not so bad.

 

I would do what 51 MERC-CT suggested.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

 

Use a 110 mig if the metal is 1/8 in thick. It worked for me.

 

how far is the kitchen stove from the shop?

used buzz boxes are cheap, craigslist shows at least three in Yakima and another in East Winatchee, from $160 to $250
used balony cord (heavy extension cord) can be found cheap-
or make one using 220 wire and apropriate ends
1/8 6018 rod burns smooth with AC

that would get it done... unless you have a gas range that is..

 

If you have room in your breaker panel and a 100-amp service, you have access to 220 in your shop. Just get a DC buzz box and you're good to go.

 

This subject pops up regularily, and is usually rife with non-information.
There are way too many variables to suggest to someone that they can simply plug into the range or dryer outlet and be OK.
If 'ya cannot afford to do it right then 'ya cannot afford to do it at all.

.

 

The XR-6 chassis was gas welded from the original articles on it and it also won the AMBR. It can and was done on tube chassis cars into the 60's. If you read a few articles on the guys building FED's many referred to it as thier perferred method, even though tig was common on chromoly go-kart frames in the late 50's. Being that you are unsure I'd consider getting a Cobra torch kit if you run with the idea. The amount of control is a great help and the directed heat limits the area affected.

 

this exact procedure worked for me.
use common sense, research what you have

the dryer outlet typicaly does not flow enough amps
a typical kitchen range will be closer to what the welder needs.
use a gauge wire suitable to run the welder and not trip the breaker
keep your extension cord as short as you can
I used about 50' of 10 gauge? four wire construction balony cord (I only used three of the wires)
the kind used to run from a main panel to a spider box on a job site

bought a male end with the range prong configuration to match the outlet in the kitchen
and a wall mount female end with welder prong configuration for the welder end.

pay attention to duty cycle, you should be able to lay a stick's worth of bead, then by the time you clean and prep for the next bead the machine should be ready to go again.

it can be done.

 

You are kidding right?

 

Bro, as someone who has been gas welding for better than 30 years, I find your statements ignorant and offensive. Gas welding IS real welding. and done right it is every bit as viable and strong as the OP needs it to be for his application.
.125 wall MS is nowhere near the limit of a home Oxy set-up, and I myself would have no hesitation whatsoever in gas welding a frame like the one he is building. Tack each joint top and bottom, and then connect the beads while the metal is still hot. Yes, you do get a larger HAZ, but it will be even and the weld itself the same hardness as the surrounding material. Once the metal is cooled enough so that no red is showing, it can be slowly oil quenched and the original temper restored.
Gas welding is an art, and superior to electronic welding in many ways. Did you know that up until the 1980's the FAA did not even recognize TIG as an accepted practice for Chromemoly in airframe construction?..and in fact, most dragster frames were gas welded right up until the mid 1960's.
I have a cast iron base vice that I GAS welded to a .125 thick metal table 20 something years ago. The vice is completely shot from a quarter century of beating, twisting and prying, but the weld and the metal surrounding it show no signs of stress whatsoever. If that's not REAL welding, I have no idea what is.

 

White punk on Nitro...Master, were not worthy
I've seen guys like you do it I'm a believer
If the "stack of nickles" is what anyone thinks makes a good weld... were all doomed.
go to the SAC museum west of Omaha Ne.That's not where we have the ayatollah's balls but you can touch an engine from the sr71 blackbird there and the welds are absolutely gorgeous and do not look anything like a "stack of dimes"
The parts look like they grew together...You'll be left asking if lazer welding was in use back then...
dimes are for noobs

 

I hooked my big Forney welder into the range outlet for several years for a lot of projects until my brother helped me wire the garage for 220.

One suggestion, if you don't trust the 110 welder you can still set it up and tack all of the plates in place with the 110 and then take it to someone with a bigger welder to have the welding done. I tacked a lot of pieces for my T bucket together with a little 110 stick welder that only worked with special rod years ago and then hauled the pieces to my buddy's for him to weld up with his 225 Lincoln.

 

How old is the house? What type and size wiring is buried in the wall? Is there a breaker panel or screw in fuses? How can you determine the condition of the breakers?

Hire an electrician or contractor and do it properly. Don't burn the house down.

.

 

Given the choice, I'd weld with some sort of electric arc, but I see no reason why gas would fail if you know what you're doing.

 

I think we are on the same page there.

 

The worst thing about the net is all you need is two people to agree on something and then whole band wagon jumps on the pile.
WhitePunkOnNitro thanks for the post man. Finally...facts and experience what a concept. Can it be done ? Sure. Can you do it with no prior experience? That is yet to be seen and practice before melting that frame would be a very good idea. You may be the natural the other guy is not but you won't know until you are balls deep. If nothing more see how your practice joints come out and then decide if you feel comfortable with it.

 

A frame is not that thick. Any Lincoln 110v will easily weld metal at least 3/16" thick, especially if you use flux core, so there's no reason you can't weld your frame with the equipment you have, I've done it many times.

 

Lots of opinions, thank you.
I’d like to clarify that when I said I wanted to have good looking welds, I meant that I wasn’t intending to do shoddy work, not that I’d accept a non-penetrating weld that looked like a stack of nickels or whatever.
I’m not a complete novice with gas welding, but most all of my welding has been on sheet metal. That’s why I bought the torch. I’m in no real god fire hurry, so I have plenty of time to make sure I’m up to the task before I ever touch a frame. I have great respect for old iron.
That said, it doesn’t sound as though gas welding was used as commonly as I thought it might have been back in the day. Maybe those that were really experienced used gas for competition car frames etc, but the guy in his garage would have been more apt to use a stick welder for heavy work. I think I’ll just wait until I have access to a 220 unit with proper wiring, (or a self contained unit, never thought of that) and in the meantime I’ll start practicing my gas welding with some heavier stock to see how it goes. I’d still be very interested in seeing photos of gas welds like Torchmann mentioned.
Thanks again
Chris

 

IF YOU ARE A GOOD WELDER, you can weld frame material very well with gas.
If done properly, there will be minimum warpage.
If you are a good welder, it will most likely look a lot better than if it was mig or
stick welded and will be stronger.
It is definetly slower and not as cost effective.
In the olden days most race car 4130 tubing frames and aircraft frames were gas welded.
If you can't do a certified weld on the material you are talking about, practice till you can before you trust yours and others lives on your welds.