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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    I finally had a chance to view the video.

    Very cool. The surroundings remind me of the photos i've seen of the Briarcliff races. Even the chasing dog gives it a timeless feel.
     
  2. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia


    This is an interesting piece. Not Duesenberg's first attempt at a rotary valve engine.

    Was there any success with this setup?
     
  3. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,483

    noboD
    Member

    T-head, any internal pics or drawings of the rotary valve engine? A friend built a rotary valve for a Briggs and Stratton for a college project.
     
  4. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Sorry, I only know that he also tried it on his early motorcycle, but I have never been able to find any details about either. I wish I could find more info about both. One of any of the good early auto reference books should have some information about what was tried by others. Maybe someone could research it a little and do a post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
  5. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Those pics are from the LOC and said to be Laurel July and October 1925. In September he drove a P2 Alfa at Monza in the 500 mile Italian GP finishing 5th and 2 min behind Milton in the Duesenberg who finished 30 minutes behind winner Brilli-Peri in a P2. Campari and Minozzi finished 2nd in another P2 and Kreis in the other Duesenberg crashed.

    [​IMG]
     

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  6. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

  7. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Interesting photo just surfaced of Jack Dempsey the boxer in Dr. Rudolph Hahns race car at the Allen track in Spokane Wa. dated 3-31-21. It looks to be possibly a production based car to me.
     

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  8. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    That 'Phil' Garlick headstone is amazing, you can't see it too well in these pictures but there's a 13 in the winged wreath and flames lapping up around the steering wheel.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It's a real shame vandals have smashed the peak off his helmet.
     
  9. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    I have found out a little more about "Dr. Hahn" from the following captions that came with these photos.

    Dr Rudolph Hahn (a local racer and celebrity) in at a tire dealership in Spokane, WA.

    Dr Rudolph Hahn in front of the John Doran Co dealership for Packard and other early cars. Dr. Hahn turns out not to be a Doctor at all but had a reputation for preforming illegal abortions.

    Has anyone ever heard of this character? The first photo taken in 1920 shows him with Oldfield in his car behind the wheel of coarse promoting Oldfield tires at a tire store. The paper plate on the car in the second photo is dated 1921.

    My initial feeling of the first photo with Dempsey in the car is that this man was into racing for personal gain and these second photos seem to cast him as a promoter type.

    I am guessing that the photos in both posts are of Essex race cars. The car in the first post also has headlights in the same spot as in these photos. They may possibly be the same car that was rebodied.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  10. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    A well done Mercer Raceabout illustration.
     

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  11. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Why spend a bunch of money on body work? This photo was on the website that Kurtis found with Skinny Clemons information.

    The caption attached to the photo was McFarland which was made in Indiana where I believe he was from. I don't have any idea if he ever raced this car and there is a possibility he was just delivering it to a dealer or a body builder. He could have also have been a test driver for McFarland and they used these covers during testing. The fact that it has running board brackets makes me think it was not raced.

    It also has what looks like it may have a Stutz transmission-differential unit
    which were also made in Indianapolis.
     

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  12. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    1908 @ Brooklands. I have no info of the race other than it could be the Easter Meeting.

    The photo shows three Austin 9.7 liter, 6cyl. 100hp cars driven by, from left, Warwick Wright, J.T.C.Moore-Brabazon and Dario Resta. All three cars and drivers also raced in the 1908 GP de l' ACF @ Dieppe finishing 18th-Moore-Brabazon, 19th-Resta, almost 2hrs behind the winning Mercedes of Christian Lautenschlager while Wright DNF with engine troubles.

    Warwick Wright who was a rags to riches character and back again, an early aviator, motorist and boat racer in England, a former Olympian and at one time held a speed record at Brooklands driving a Bentley. He was also an agent for Darracq, Armstrong Siddely, Minerva, Lagonda and Talbot and a veteran of both wars entering the first as Lt-Colonel.

    J.T.C. Moore-Brabazon {later to become Lord Brabazon of Tara} was also a pioneer aviator flying first a Voisin biplane in France but later switching to British made machines. He was also the first registered pilot in Britain.

    The other photo is the Napier of Frank Newton i think from the same meeting. He and Resta came together during the race denying the latter of a possible victory.
     

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  13. twin6
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 2,237

    twin6
    Member
    from Vermont

    Here's a very early race, and it looks like the contestants are all in (on?) Locomobile steamers. The driver of no. 4 is supposedly John Jacob Astor, IV who died on Titanic. Does anyone know anything about the event, or other participants? I'd love to know what the little urchin is trying to do to Astor's front tire! I'd say this was close to 1900 - 1901.
     

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  14. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    .......
     

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  15. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia


    I only have two listings for John Jacob Astor IV.

    Aquidneck Trotter Park, RI.
    6th sept 1900.
    5 Mile race for steamers. {0.5Mile x 10 laps}
    Heat 1=
    1st - S.Davis. ??
    2nd- John Jacob Astor IV. Locomobile.

    The other race is a hillclimb event in Nelson?? of 1901. No date for this one but it is between September and October of that year. This was an event featuring heavy and light cars as well as the odd steamer.

    Sorry i can't help. I like the photo though.
     
  16. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,831

    fur biscuit
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Duesenberg experimented with a couple of different ideas over the years, there was a 2 cycle supercharged 91 cu in motor also.

    Fronty also built a rotary valve motor also, Itala raced a rotary valve motor in one of the Grand Prix's in 1913.

    Here is a neat write up on rotary valve motors:

    http://ralphwatson.scienceontheweb.net/rotary.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  17. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Every year at this time i'm reminded of the passing of one of the great automobile designer's.

    Emille Levassor, one half of the French firm Panhard et Levassor and winner of the 1895 Paris-Bordeaux-Paris race organised by the Automobile Club de France and said by many to be the first real auto race, passed away on this day in 1897 from a coronary embolism, most probably caused from a lack of rest following the injuries he sustained after crashing his car trying to avoid a dog in the 1896 Paris-Marseille race.
    He was the first to place the motor in front of the car and designed what is considered the predecessor of today's modern transmission. Just before his death he was working on a magnetic clutch. He was 54.
     

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  18. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    1905 Gordon Bennett practice photo by Lartique.
     

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  19. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    The picture of the three Austins is the start of the Training Plate on June 8th 1908 (Whit Monday). This race was specifically for the Austins manufactured for the 1908 Grand Prix and they were required to run with full Grand Prix equipment. At the end of the first of two laps drivers had to change two tyres before continuing. Resta won by a clear quarter-mile from Wright, with Moore-Brabazon third.

    The Napier picture was taken on August 5th 1907 - Newton has just won the International Plate.
     
  20. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Another great Lartique photo from the 1905 of the Burton Mercedes possibly after going thru the inspection tent. Note the Panhard behind the fence.
     

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  21. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    The Red Devil Jenatzy's famous Mercedes ready to go thru the inspection tent.
    1905 photograph by Lartique.
     

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  22. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,831

    fur biscuit
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    a few random bits...nothing particular in no order.

    1. Sizaire Naudin
    2. Lion Peugot
    3. Benz (Hemry in St. Petersburg)
    4. Benz Team
    5. dunno...GP, '07?
    6. Benz
    7. Renault pits in '07?
     

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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  23. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,831

    fur biscuit
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    i am spent.

    1. Benz (Hemry, St. Petersburg)
    2. Mercedes
    3. Motobloc
     

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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  24. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Just cut away everything that does not look like an air valve.

    Thats what I had to do to make an air valve for one of the other Mercers here (The yellow one we rode in last week is fine). They can break after long use and the one in two pieces broke on me last fall. You can see the one for a different car that is here also has been broken and repaired with a patch and solder in the past. In case you are wondering the silver coloring on the broken one is where it was built up with hard chrome in the 40's.

    I machine them out of phosphor bronze which is very strong and you can see a bar of it behind the valves. It is getting hard to find these days, this piece came from the UK. With all of the different operations and the large amount of metal to remove this is an all day job.

    All of this is done on a lathe which is something you should consider getting if you need to make things in your workshop. After you get one you will wonder how you ever got along without one.

    Check post #2335 which will show you all about these carburetors.
     

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  25. onelung
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 181

    onelung
    Member
    from Adelaide

    Furby - any chance of some info to go with the pics from post 2900 or failing that, their source?
    The first is of course a Sizaire Naudin from a Targa Florio event, so I believe - but what, in particular, is the voiturette in the second shot? And the magic word ... please.:)
     
  26. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    I really need to find some proper Brooklands results. Thanks Vitesse.

    The photo below is another that has me scratching my head. The description attatched says it is Frank Newton and it certainly fits his image but the only listing i have for the car is the July Meeting - 4th July 1908.
    -Match Race- 10.5 miles.
    1st- J.W.Stocks.- De Dion 25.6mph.
    2nd- S.F.Edge.- Napier 'Firefly'

    The other photo is the Austin of Dario Resta.
     

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  27. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,831

    fur biscuit
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am in the middle of moving, so my dates, names, etc may be off. But pretty sure i am close.

    If anyone has a copy of TASO Mathieson's book, they can give better answers (mine is all bundled up safe and sound).
     
  28. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    ........
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  29. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Newton ran "Firefly" at both Whitsun meetings in 1908: Saturday June 6th in a 26hp match race against Cupper's Metallurgique and Monday June 8th in the Fifth 26hp Race. He won both.

    Reading the reports in The Times I would guess the picture is from the Saturday. Weather for the Monday meeting was described as "perfect", but if you look at some of the spectators they are wearing overcoats - not ideal garb for "perfect" weather - and all are wearing caps rather than boaters. That is perhaps confirmed by the picture of Resta in the Austin, which I think is from the Monday - note the ladies' bonnets and gentlemen in boaters!
     

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