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Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Joshua Shaw, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. RABs32
    Joined: Nov 14, 2009
    Posts: 807

    RABs32
    Member
    from new jersey

    Here's some more.....
     

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  2. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    About 45 years ago, as a dumb kid, I was assembling my first OT engine. Of course I didn't listen to my father about being carefull with the rings. After I broke one of the rings Lloyd Racing Ent. was the only local business that would help me get a new set of rings. I guess I sounded like a desperate kid on the phone when I ask if they could get rings for an English Ford. They could have easily blown me off like everyone else did. When I went to pick them up I was given a full shop tour, sure left a lasting impression. Thanks for the pics that brought that memory back.
     
  3. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    VERY WELL PUT. Bob East would make it interesting. He's up to date.

    All that would work great.. But, like the idiots running this country. COMMON SENSE DOES NOT APPLY!
     
  4. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    GUYS! I might have missed this link being posted before but it's too good to take a chance. I don't know who the guy is. Didn't have time to look. Check it out!! Below are some examples of the 388 photo's on there. Plus ONE of the HART sprinter hanging it out at Winchester, we're restoring now that I didn't have!

    http://picasaweb.google.com/jamesarthur22/AntiqueRacing#
     

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    hiboyroadsterboy likes this.
  5. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,368

    brandon
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  6. Tic
    Joined: Jan 9, 2009
    Posts: 42

    Tic
    Member

    -
    Knoxville, Iowa nostalgia races about 2004. I think this car was wrecked a couple of years later.

    Tic
     

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  7. weathrmn
    Joined: Apr 15, 2008
    Posts: 321

    weathrmn
    Member

    Thanks for the pictures of the champ/silver crown cars. I pray that everything thats old gets new again.(champ cars)
     
  8. cars5752
    Joined: Jun 19, 2008
    Posts: 28

    cars5752
    Member

    I posted this over on the supermodified thread and it was suggested I place it over here for a better chance of getting an answer. Trying to see if anyone remembers seeing this car. It appears to have been raced as a supermodified in the early to mid 1970's in Michigan. Any help sure appreciated. You can email me at [email protected] Many thanks.
     

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  9. Butch Evans
    Joined: Nov 9, 2008
    Posts: 115

    Butch Evans
    Member

    That little lively debate is a good example of the dedicated and educated lovers of open wheel racing on this thread. KuDos to all
     
  10. RABs32
    Joined: Nov 14, 2009
    Posts: 807

    RABs32
    Member
    from new jersey

    Josh, thanks for the heads up,just checked em out, some neat stuff.... Thanks Rich
     
  11. weathrmn
    Joined: Apr 15, 2008
    Posts: 321

    weathrmn
    Member

    Since were into nostalgia, how many remember Frank DelRoy and his speed shop. Dad was a friend of Frank's, you never knew who or what you would see there.
     
  12. NED FRY
    Joined: Dec 14, 2008
    Posts: 28

    NED FRY
    Member
    from iowa

    I just checked out Joshua Shaw cool Pics on page 490--The driver in Don Brown's dirt roadster--- what kinda hand signal is he trying to give that push truck??? :eek:)
     
  13. NED FRY
    Joined: Dec 14, 2008
    Posts: 28

    NED FRY
    Member
    from iowa

    Everyone take a look at the STP #40 that Rootie K posted on this page -- then replace that big T -- with a Nascar Chevy engine-- then put fearless Tony Smoke behind the wheel--------- how cool would that be.----- I would pay double to see that !!!!!!!!!!
     
  14. RABs32
    Joined: Nov 14, 2009
    Posts: 807

    RABs32
    Member
    from new jersey

    Heres some more champ cars at THE GROVE....Rich
     

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  15. RABs32
    Joined: Nov 14, 2009
    Posts: 807

    RABs32
    Member
    from new jersey

    A final batch for tonite.....
     

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  16. Speedwrench
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,032

    Speedwrench
    Member

    I think the driver - and owner - of that vehicle is Greg Weld. And the signal is one that we all should recognize. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  18. The #25 track roadster is Red Amick from Muncie, Indiana via California. He totaled this car later at Winchester Speedway.
    HG :cool:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    smp66-Thank You!!!!!!

    Wynn`s 1-here is a great photo of our Caruso Sprinter-Ron Lux #39 in shoe polish.
    The next year Jerry Karl installed a SBC and won three features in his URC Rookie Year. My dad was his mechanic.

    It shows the radius rod detail. Notice the louvers in the hood in the exact amount and location as the Caruso Duece Midget.

    Oh yeah,Jeff Barbour`s car is in the photo, too.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2010
  20. gearguy
    Joined: Jan 27, 2010
    Posts: 286

    gearguy
    Member

    <tt><tt>At the risk of being slightly O/T I submit this editorial by my wise friend Gregg Kishline.
    Perhaps he will later consent to share his story of Grandpa Flyod Kishlines's involvement
    with the Grahman indy cars during the junk formula.
    What Made the Roadsters Special?

    Put a fork in champcar racing - it's over with. Its death spiral started about
    1968. That's when the aerodynamic doodads began to appear on the bodywork of
    the cars at Indy. ....which brings us to today. Modern champcar racing makes a
    mockery of Parnelli, Mario, and AJ. And that's because any driver who can fog a
    butter knife can turn a 200 mph average at the Speedway - which is an insult to
    the world's best drivers from years past who fought for their lives four times
    every lap.

    Shame on the rule-makers. In the pursuit of speed, racers will 'innovate' -
    they'll try anything. And that's why a strong sanctioning organization has to
    hold racing in check. In a span of four decades, USAC/IRL has changed the top
    tier of American motorsport into a completely different animal. It has lost all
    linkage with American oval-track racing, it has become a shrine to technology,
    and it has shriveled the driver's role, to say the least. Talk about mission
    creep.

    I have a skewed perspective of the Indianapolis 500. I remember Tony George as
    a little kid on the sidelines, when Grandpa Hulman opened his house every year
    for 4 or 5 weeks before the race. Craftsmen built cars. Upright cars - and
    then roadsters - slid all the way through the corners, oversteering on tall,
    narrow Firestones. The Speedway was a beehive, and surprises lurked all through
    the garage area. The grandstands were filled to watch cars practice and qualify
    before the race. It was the same at all the tracks where the champ cars ran.

    It used to be that experiments in race car design showed up each May, and always
    met by skeptics. When the innovations worked, the skeptics were usually won
    over - sometimes reluctantly. Frank Kurtis offset the engine to create
    roadsters. An era began. Characters emerged - think J. C. Agajanian.
    Arguments resulted, and some of it got personal. Smokey Yunick ridiculed Rolla
    Vollstedt's new rear engine car in 1964, saying officials should grease the
    first turn concrete, as it would push up to the wall, at speed. Turned out
    Smokey was wrong. Then Smokey joined the club. Apparently, he had a prophesy
    of the modern rear-engined super-modified, but he hung the driver out to the
    left - instead of the engine. Wow, talk about a 180.

    As if by magic, Andy Granatelli revealed his first turbine car and shocked
    racing. There were lots more surprises - Novis, magnesium Shrikes, Mickey
    Thompson's hotrod approach to highspeed oval racing, Colin Chapman's monocoque
    cars, and then Ford poured their money into a new DOHC engine to challenge
    Meyer-Drake for supremacy. It was a wonderful, homegrown era of craftsmen and
    bold drivers - where the price for being too bold was the wall.

    All that variety and difference of opinion made Indianapolis something to look
    forward to. It made for a month-long motorsport adventure for the car-builders,
    the drivers, the mechanics, the fans, and the media. The famous expression
    '...the greatest spectacle in racing' was just an honest description of events.
    Daytona was for stock cars. Indianapolis was for race cars. USAC didn't sell
    its personalities (the way NASCAR does now), but they sure had a spectacle in
    May.

    Today, there is a vacuum where champcar racing used to be. It has ceased to
    exist. In its place, we have been handed the IRL grand prix spec-cars which
    masquerade as a championship series. The Associated Press quoted Speedway
    spokesman Ron Green, saying, "...we're in the fifth or sixth year of this
    formula - Dallara chassis, Firestone tires, and Honda engines - so the teams are
    very, very familiar with this combination."

    Key word: 'formula'. What an indictment - six years of spec racing at the
    championship level (and at the Indianapolis 500) is not something to be proud
    of.

    Since the zero-downforce era ended, forty years have elapsed. By the rules,
    it's been rear-engined down-force cars since then. Enough. It's time for the
    sport and the cars to evolve - reasons forthcoming.

    Admittedly, I'm stuck with this filter of personal history. I have spent quite
    some time trying to figure out why the champ dirt cars, roadsters, and the early
    rear-engined cars were so entertaining to watch. What made it different than
    watching 33 Dallara-Hondas, in competition today? Apparently, I am not alone
    - the stands are not as occupied as they were decades back.

    These days, I have raised my kids and retired. I putz, restore, and build stuff
    because it's enjoyable and seems worthwhile. Now, I take some time to attend
    gatherings of people who populated that era - as well as some younger folk - who
    have a fondness for old race cars on open trailers. I have met some of my old
    warrior-heroes and shared stories with them.

    Sometimes that means showing up at vintage meets, and sometimes it's just
    wandering through the restoration shops in Indianapolis. Without name-dropping,
    I have chatted with some of the surviving Indianpolis greats - drivers,
    builders, stooges - and befriended some, in the process. They're just plain
    folk who did it for the love of the sport and made a large mark over on 16th
    Street. They will graciously spend time with like-minded curious souls like
    myself. It is humbling, and I am so fortunate.

    The consensus of this crowd seems to be that decades ago, things went south at
    Indianapolis for a laundry list of reasons. And in the process, the management
    of the sanctioning bodies lost sight of racing's values, in pursuit of income.

    It seems everyone understands a balance sheet. However, neither Tony George,
    nor the IMS Board (meaning the Hulman family), nor the France descendants appear
    to understand the values that spawned traditional oval track racing. We should
    credit Tony George - he has tried to preserve the Speedway by adding
    improvements and events. However, while Grandpa Tony Hulman likewise tried to
    make a buck with the Speedway, he also understood traditional racing values.

    Back in the early 1960's, John Kennedy defended his ambitious agenda for
    America, which included landing a man on the moon. He said, "We do these
    things not because they are easy but because they are hard - because they are a
    measure of the best that we can do." Historically, that's what racing is about
    - the racing community challenging themselves and each other with their best
    effort.

    Racing is this simple: Men build race cars - traditionally, on less than a NASA
    budget. They apply their craftsmanship and innovation. Then they gather, and
    the drivers show their abilities. The better car and driver usually prevail -
    winner takes the most marbles. With great emotional investment, spectators
    watch this competition, just as they did 2000 years ago in Rome's Circus
    Maximus. Incidentally, the Circus Maximus is still a great -looking oval track.


    The powers that manage racing have lost this vision. It has become a pursuit of
    money, abandoning individual craftsmanship and innovation in the process. Well,
    the trophy's unchanged. The result is a field of 33 identical chassis all
    powered by the same leased engine. Champ racing in America has become an
    expensive spec series that represents the best of European Formula 1 chassis
    engineering coupled with Japan's decades of building motorcycle engines. And we
    won't even mention the 20 drivers in last year's race who needed a passport so
    they could reach Indianapolis and compete. This is America's best? This is the
    measure of the best that we can do? Hence, the stands are emptying.

    NASCAR has created a money machine out of advertising, using their race cars.
    Driver interviews have become commercials. Same for the IRL. The machine makes
    more money by marketing personalities. So, the focus leans toward the drivers
    and away from the identical cars. If racing turtles made money, they'd race
    turtles. The sanctioning bodies have things back-asswards. Champ racing has
    slipped in a big way.

    The IRL has become the CART group that it went to war with. Let the lost souls
    be - let them race. They are a different breed. To me, watching the super-glued
    IRL cars play follow-the-leader is dull. American Grand Prix racing is entitled
    to its followers, but as Yogi Berra once said, 'Include me out'.

    The dominos begin to tip. Fewer fans buy fewer tickets, less gate receipts
    result, broadcast income gets more important, costs exceed sales, and
    'sanctioning fees' are choking the horse. Tracks are threatened with closure.
    That's not just speculation. The Milwaukee Mile is currently in jeopardy, with
    too many people cutting up a limited pie. Racing in America will not be served
    if the oldest operating track in the US turns into condos.

    I have undertaken an informal poll when I meet retired racers. Three takeaways:
    1) No one thinks that things at the Speedway will change anytime soon. 2) The
    decline in Champcar racing began when it became infected with the pursut of
    corporate money. And finally, 3) the most interesting conclusion of all. This
    one is amazing because it's unanimous - every single participant in this curious
    poll says the same thing.

    Here's the question: Given a magic wand, would you do away with downforce in
    the '500'? Some think a while, others respond immediately. But every
    interviewee facing that question has said that the Indianapolis 500 would be a
    better race if downforce were either significantly reduced or eliminated
    altogether. And then comes the inevitable comment about how it would force a
    return of driving skill to champ cars.

    The drivers I've surveyed are all 60-80 years old now. One is 90+. To a man,
    they feel the role of the driver has been diminished by technology.
    Technically, the physics of aerodynamic downforce has overcome the available
    engine torque. In plain English, as A.J. Foyt was overheard at Milwaukee, "I
    never thought I'd see the day when you could flatfoot the Speedway."

    Currently, qualifying at Indianapolis requires a driver run at 100% throttle for
    four laps. Intuitively, you would expect a racecar driver to lift once in a
    while. Except for yellow flags and 'dirty air' conditions, the throttle
    function has been removed from driving - it might as well be an on-off switch.

    One could argue that the current Indianapolis car is aimed, not driven. "I want
    to grow up and be a race car aimer," just doesn't sound right. [In fact, the
    race could now be run as a video game with servos in the cars and drivers
    sitting at monitors in the garage area. While this may be the ultimate safety
    improvement, it hardly seems as entertaining as watching racing's great drivers
    try to throttle a car through the corners - as they did until the roadster era
    ended.]

    And, one could argue that the era of the roadsters and early rear-engined cars
    was the last real measure of driving skill, when lifting for the corners was
    required for survival. Look at the photos. About 1967, little aero tabs and
    wings started showing up on Indy cars. The officials caved to the owners and
    said, "Sure, why not?" Then Jim Hall had his 'eureka' moment, and the end
    result is a car that now weighs 6000# entering each corner at the Speedway.

    Today's champcar racing is the equivalent of watching barnstormers, ...or
    retired drivers compete in a 'Masters' race. More to the point, it's like
    watching an open-wheel version of the IROC series, which also featured identical
    racecars, except that the modern cars are no test of driving skill. These
    racers will not be converted, and it is useless to try. Maybe Roger Penske's
    midset had too much influence on champcar racing.

    The cars of the 50's and 60's had zero downforce, and they were affordable by
    an individual entrant, ... but to run them again would only be to re-play
    history. [That said, I would pay dearly to see 33 wing-free supermods line up
    on the main straight, next May.]

    These are all interesting exercises and even mildly entertaining, but they are
    not a measure of the best we can do - the measure taken by the 'old'
    Indianapolis.

    The operating credo of the IRL seems to be, "This here is a spec club, and we
    are not interested in builders competing with each other." Thus does the tail
    wag the dog.

    In the end, it dawns on me that I am watching the wrong race. Change the
    channel. The future is racing has not been written. It will be what
    sanctioning groups, racers, and race-fans make it. Unfortunately, wealth also
    has a vote (arguably beginning in the early 1960's, with Ford's 4-cam
    initative). It has become a very rich man's sport.

    It is apparent that new championship racing rules are in order - rules to race
    by, not the current rules by which one purchases a starting position. Fact is,
    running the same cars (rear engine, downforced) year after year for 40 years has
    been one long re-play, and it's getting old.

    Racecar evolution has brought improvements. Driver protection has never been so
    good - and that's good for racing. [Sidebar: While downtube midgets and
    sprintcars are strong and safe, they just look wrong. They stopped looking like
    race cars and started looking like bridges 30 years ago. Maybe, I should be
    watching non-wing super-mods race. But there are none in the Mississippi River
    Valley, where I live. And midgets are so overpowered that they have in fact
    become short-wheelbase sprintcars - but that's an entirely separate discussion.]


    Motorsport is diluted with too many classes of ugly cars as it is. If we enter
    this fantasy world where we lose downforce, build cars, and let drivers drive
    again, then more changes logically follow. That said, here are a few
    not-so-humble suggestions:

    1) We need one more class of racecars, hopefully to restore open-wheel champ
    car racing.

    2) First off, start with a new sheet of paper. Walk away from the befuddled
    IRL. Gather some dedicated racers and sportsman who embrace affordability and
    the values of championship racing, and are willing to create a new sanctioning
    organization. Include a competition committee with teeth, to ensure safety and
    raceworthy construction. A little computer-savvy business expertise would
    help.

    3) Racing should be inclusive. Today it is for the wealthy elite - new
    participants and new ideas are excluded. The expense of racing has always
    discriminated against the modestly-funded racer, but never more than now. The
    influence of money on racing will never be eliminated, but it can be reduced.
    More often than not, technology adds cost without improving the race that the
    fan watches. Re-write a set of competition rules that don't favor money.
    Fifty or a hundred grand ought to get you into a competitive champ car.
    Conversely, twenty million dollars shouldn't buy a face on the Speedway's
    Borg-Warner trophy. Reduce the impact of unlimited dollars on racing, and you
    will renew the sport.

    An example: Allow chassis to be built by the individual. Champ racing needs
    individual builders who design and construct cars, in their own shops - to
    contain costs and interest fans. It's cost-effective, it provides variety, and
    it can be done safely. For chassis, use 4130 tubing or tempered aluminum or
    composites, but establish a sufficient minimum weight that discourages
    lightweight exotics. Require energy-absorbing designs and driver protection.
    Building materials should be readily available and affordable. There should be
    no competitive advantage in using exotic, expensive materials such as
    carbon-fiber, laminate sandwiches, or 'unobtainium'. Construction guidelines
    shouldn't be hard to develop, with each one poured through the filter of cost.
    Safety note: Despite the boredom, the last 40 years have left us a wonderful
    safety legacy. The advancements in Champcar safety should all be retained. It
    bears repeating that the modern IRL
    cockpit is a very safe place to store fuel and to experience a wreck.
    Accordingly, 4) Give a carbon-fiber cockpit 'pod' to each builder and turn them
    loose.

    Another example (to reduce the impact of money and another reason to do away
    with downforce): Although wind-tunnel testing improves performance at the
    track by increasing downforce, it is expensive. If the rules remove any benefit
    to wind-tunnel testing, then testing goes away - and it becomes cheaper to field
    a competitive car. Remove the 'edge' that comes with windtunnel testing by
    removing the result of that testing. Remove today's 4500 lbs of downforce,
    and drivers will lift at the each corner. Zero-downforce cars will reduce the
    cost of racing, bring down speeds, and restore the role of the driver. The
    result is better and cheaper racing, by anyone's yardstick.

    Yet another example: Spec engines ...yuk. But they may be necessary at the
    outset, as a key to affordability. If so, then use cheap dependable engines,
    and inspect them or seal them to keep everybody honest. Maybe limit the amount
    of fuel for the race. Unlimited engine development is very costly. Dependable
    four-valve, DOHC engines are available off the showroom floor. Today, a new
    midget engine will set you back $35,000 - another $10K for an IRL Honda motor.
    You can build a Northstar or a good small-block sprint motor for $10K. No
    titanium. Wanna see 100 entries at Indianapolis again?

    5) Sad to say, the driving skills learned in midgets and sprint cars no longer
    apply at Indianapolis. It bears repeating: it should be necessary to lift at
    Turn One. As it was in the distant past, champcars need rules that will advance
    America's best open-wheel drivers to a crown jewel event - not push them to the
    back of the bus, where they watch the '500' on TV.

    Here's what my winning Powerball ticket would do. Throw some money - like $50K
    or $100K - at half a dozen respected car builders. Let imagination prevail.
    Tell them to build the car they'd like to see in next year's 500, and see what
    they come up with. Test those cars on long and short racetracks, and decide
    what works and what doesn't. Use the results to fine-tune a new rulebook. Then
    - assuming the Speedway Corporation will loosen their deathgrip - rent some
    racetracks and present a series.

    6) Cheap engines should be competitive. If the spec engine idea is vetoed,
    open up the engine options by including time in the rules. Engine performance
    cannot be measured by displacement alone. When an engine is running at
    race-speed, how many cubic inches of air are displaced PER MINUTE? For each
    lap, a high-winding engine will pump more burned gases (and make more
    horsepower) than a low-rpm engine - much as we measure the peformance of air
    compressors, in cubic feet per minute. Adjust cubic-inch displacement to
    reflect the time factor. This applies to any air-breathing engine, including
    tubines.

    7) On that subject: As radical as turbines were viewed when they arrived at the
    500 - and if racing can still be considered a proving ground - then allow
    alternative engines or power sources. And let the experimenters and innovators
    generate new interest each season. A schoolbus-pushrod-Chevy V8 once ran
    competitively against the turbo-Offys. How about a powerplant that runs on
    sunlight? Or one that burns hydrogen? Maybe there's a way to energize a
    racecar without burning anything. What rules would would you enact to make an
    electric racecar competitive? And who said 'no' to turbines or steam? Variety
    is good for the show - watching identical spec cars circle around is not - nor
    has it held down costs.

    8) The rules drive the event. Let us ask, 'What drives the rules?' If an
    unfair advantage pops up, let a strong competition committee address equity
    issues with a sense of fairness and cost. But the goals should be to keep the
    racer in the fold, encourage variety, and discourage obscene spending.

    9) Put a pile of money on the table, and let 'em race for it. Stand back and
    let America do what it does best. Broadcast rights and ticket sales ought to
    generate enough for track rental and a fat purse. (The math: selling $25
    tickets to 200,000 Indy fans puts $5 million in the pot. Then add TV revenue -
    what are broadcast rights worth?) Allowing mega-dollars from sponsors to
    contaminate the process only duplicates what we have now - which isn't working.


    The Indianapolis 500 used to be about superior performance, on every level.
    Now, it's about buying the best and selling the race. Let the IRL and Bernie
    Ecclestone keep their addiction to the marketing money of corportate sponsors,
    presenting their parades of cookie-cutter, ground-sucking vacuum cleaners
    pressed to the asphalt. Money should not trump talent in America, nor should it
    buy a ride at the Speedway. But sadly it does. God bless the entire Kinser
    clan.

    Champ car racing needs to follow its trusty old compass. It needs a strong
    sanctioning organization that thinks critically about increasing participation
    and less about filling the pockets of those on the sidelines (the same applies
    to national politics, actually). It needs rules that favor the whole sport, and
    that includes the ticket-buying fans.

    Actually, the fans ARE voting. TV is no substitute for a seat in the
    grandstands - which appear all too vacant lately. It isn't marketing that puts
    fans in the seats. It's cars and drivers dancing with adhesion limits. Until
    1968 champ cars were exciting to watch race - modern IRL cars are not. The
    Indianapolis 500 should be the standard by which all racing is measured. One or
    two bold decisions, and fans will pay to watch qualifying again.

    An open inquiry to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Board (meaning the Hulman
    family): We remember the goals you had in mind when you banged heads with CART
    and created the IRL. Please tell us about NASCAR's rental deal - the one that
    opens the Speedway to the COT 'stock' cars for that long weekend in July. Then,
    give us a couple of years to pass the hat across America (we'll need rent money
    and time to build a sanctioning group as well as some first-generation cars).
    Finally, rent the joint to us for a week in early September.

    We'll have an actual champcar race again - a fitting celebration of Labor Day
    and a tribute to American initiative. Maybe put it on TV. Game on. America's
    best sprintcar and supermod drivers will lead a field of new, non-wing,
    open-wheel champ cars. They'll all have to lift for the corners, so lap speeds
    will only be 150 or 160 mph. And we'll all learn something.

    It'll be fun to watch, and the IMS Board won't have to lift a finger. Most
    important, we'll bring a lot of oval track racers back to Indianapolis, because
    that's where they belong. That alone ought be enough to make Sid Collins
    smile.




    </tt></tt></pre>
     
  21. Wow! That's a long and interesting read.

    To lighten the mood, here's some old Aussie dirt trackers. :)
     

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    hiboyroadsterboy likes this.
  22. A couple more. :)
     

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    hiboyroadsterboy likes this.
  23. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    I agree, it is a long article.

    Some of the author's comments and nearly all of his ideas don't make any sense.

    Hypocritical to say the least.
     
  24. I dunno... I understand that it's all about progress and better technology and that things can't stay the same, but at the end of the day when everyone ends up building pretty much the same car, what's the point?

    I reckon it would be great to see some differentiation amongst the cars, not just at Indy, but all over the world.

    We have a two-make series over here in Australia (V8 Supercars) and the cars are so similar that they might as well just build the same car and change the badge on the front... hang on, I think that's already been done! ;)

    Top Fuel cars are all identical, Funny cars are a joke (look more like fighter planes with their wings chopped off) and most other long running series have 'evolved' into a situation where the only thing different about the cars is the placement of the sponsors' stickers.
     
  25. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Would I Love to see Indy return to front engine roadsters with narrow tires and no wings or ground effects of any kind allowed? Yes.

    Would I rather see drivers like AJ Foyt and Parnelli Jones or Milka Dunno?

    I`ll take AJ Foyt and Parnelli if I had a choice.

    Will it ever happen? Not a snowball`s chance in hell.....
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2010
  26. NED FRY
    Joined: Dec 14, 2008
    Posts: 28

    NED FRY
    Member
    from iowa

    Gearguy-- you're my hero---I couldn't have wrote all that--- but I agree -- I went to 14 straight Indy 500 time trails and races, starting in 1965. Then stopped ---I still watch it on TV or hear it on the radio. But sure don't feel the need to go back. If they ran a Sept FE Super race -you couldn't get all the people in that wanted to. This my come out wrong --but people don't care about the current drivers .They want to watch that midget/sprint/super guy hit the big time. Look at all the attention Roger Rager got with his SBC school bus engine.
     
  27. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Wow! I need to get to know this guys engine and chassis builder!

    [Fifty or a hundred grand ought to get you into a competitive champ car.]


    [You can build a Northstar or a good small-block sprint motor for $10K]
     
  28. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Competitive 410 sprint car engines run $40,000 plus.

    Even the limited 358 sprint car engines around here are over $30,000....
     
  29. Jim Dieter
    Joined: Jun 27, 2008
    Posts: 387

    Jim Dieter
    Member
    from Joliet

    Your numbers are a bit more realistic. But at least they havent screwed up our wingless sprinters. The four bar space frames heve been around for 50 years with only minor changes in bar heights and lighter components. The core design is still the same. Hopefully they learned a lesson by what they did to silver crown and wont touch it.

     

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