I have always kinda like the old Y block Fords but have never owned one. I have been kicking around ideas for different powerplants for the 35 Ford shop truck I have slated for the future. I assume the rockers are non-adjustable? How do the 292/312 dimensions compre to the sbc? I was wondering how it would fit in a stock 35 Ford Frame? Any other oddities or inherit weaknesses a guy needs to know about? Thanks Root
All Y blocks use a solid lifter cam & have, as E.P. points out, adjustable shaft mount rockers, though there are two different ratios & a couple of styles of adjusters. Dimensionally they are similar to a SBC in width (I don't have the dimensions handy, this is just an eyeball); slightly longer; and heavier. Advantages & disadvantages are a little more hazy, in the sense that FoMoCo engines are always a bit more complicated than others, there's always a transmission bolt pattern to wrestle with, etc. Many of the Y fanatics are either iconoclasts at heart, wanting to avoid the tried & true, or they inherited one & learned to love it. There are five basic sizes: 239, 256, 272, 292, & 312. Unless you run across a good, running 239 or 256 at a dirt-cheap price, I'd pass, for a couple of reasons which I'll forgo typing unless you're interested. 272s are not too hard to find; in a rebuild it is almost always cheaper to simply bore it to a 292 because 272 pistons are more expensive as a rule. 292s are by far the most common & were made from '55 to '64, nearly the entire Y production life in the US. 312s always command a higher price and can have a couple of problems. The major disadvantages as I see them: 1) More expensive to build. Well, what vintage engine isn't??? The trick here is to keep in mind what you expect out of the engine. Y blocks are limited to about 364 ci max, and to achieve that costs a HELL of a lot of cash. On the other hand, for a shop truck, building a nice little 301 (.060 292) will do ya quite nicely. And, contrary to popular belief, the vaunted ECZ-G heads are not always necessary. 2) Oiling issues. Y blocks are notorious for not oiling the upper end/rockers. The two main reasons are a) sludge blocking the oil passage (which is not the greatest design Ford ever made) and b) the cam bearing spinning. Both of these are eliminated in a correct rebuild, and using modern oil with regular changes. As I have noted before (& gotten shit for, too), I haven't ever run across a spun cam bearing. Not saying it does not happen; I am saying that the problem is exaggerated on the Net. 3) Transmission bolt pattern. If you are wise, you will determine the answer to this long before you ever touch the engine. Ys have their own unique pattern. There are several adapters available, and some home-brewed methods of using FoMoCo parts to adapt newer transmissions (for ex. the T5), but it's not cheap as a rule, depending on your particular desire. Plan accordingly in your budget. 4) Can be difficult to get higher compression ratios. Most Y heads have relatively large chamber size vs. displacement. This can be worked around and for a nice street engine is not much of a big deal, but for racing it takes some careful effort. 5) Plan on either using headers, or scrounging up a set of rams' horns for it; most of the stock exhaust manifolds are awfully restrictive. The ram's horns are a moderate improvement (when they fit the chassis) but are expensive either in OE or repro form. 6) Most stock pushrods are weak. Advantages: 1) usually cheap to obtain, at least until everybody jumped on the wagon about five years ago. 2) Nice-looking in most people's opinion 3) Can be built into very respectable street engines using a lot of stock parts
You should get a front sump pan and the distributors are a bitch to get at. Had a 312 in a 55 1/2 ton that would run in the lo 90's. Isky E2 cam, duals and a small Holley 4 barrel. Good ol engines.
Very good engines, plug the overflow tubes on the rocker shafts run dual straight pipes for the sweetest exhaust EVER I've been running a 292 for about 10 years use the heavy duty transmission, I got overdrive
This place can answer most all of your questions http://www.ford-y-block.com/techincal.htm i'm trying to put together a stroked 292 for my 47 PU right now.. they are fun motors to work with.. it's definately a bit more of a challenge then just dropping in a SBC but i think it's worth it.. hope it helps and good luck!
I have one for sale with a tranny. Runs drives and shifts. Pulled it yesterday. Check the classifieds or PM me
Personally, i think its one of the best sounding engines ever. Had a 292 y block v8. Nothing like it. And i love having those T-bird valve covers on'em. They have a big market for parts. Check out- http://www.ford-y-block.com Hes like one of the best in dealing and hopping up Ford y blocks.
I love 'em, Homespun91 seems to have given you the down low. The one in my '62 has 101k miles on it and runs like a top, it's no powerhouse but sounds great. http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/default.aspx http://ford-y-block.com/
the best motor i ever had is a312 y-block and the worst is a 312-y-block if you find a good one its a good motor and with today parts it can be rebuilt and be a good motor i think besides the flathead it,s the best sounding motor with glass packs or pipes with no muffers and tne best looking ford motor in a old school car yeah ford made a motor after the y-block but who grives a shit
My first car had a 292 in it.Hey, if a 16 year old can work on a Y-Block then they must be pretty easy to deal with.As mentioned, they sound great,especially with glass packs.They are very hard to tear up,like a tractor motor.
I couldn't decide between a flatty or 289/302 sbf for my model A so when these fell into my lap it became an easier decision..plus y blocks sound awesome to boot also Picked up a running 292 for 200$ from the good ol' HAMB classifieds ...
Allow me to add a few more to the list. Cons: The starter is purely the work of Satan. Seriously, this could only have been designed by engineers. The starter itself weighs like 40 lbs and will cause your arm to go numb and you try in vain to position it and start a bolt in. Also, the drive is just long enough so that it will be virtually impossible to install with exhaust and a motor mount in place. Inevitably, 1 always needs to go. If you have the misfortune of installing one of these on a full size Ford car of the mid 50s, then you are well aware of the center crossmember interference, and you begin to realize that it might be less work to swap the whole engine out for a 302 than install a starter. There are 3 bolts that hold the starter in. The outside 2 go in easily, but the 3rd is buried in between the block and starter motor, in a spot where adult male hands cannot. If you're Vietnamese or a 12 year old, this is a non-issue. Otherwise, anticipate spending 30+ minutes with a box end wrench putting this bolt in. -No availability of a hydraulic cam is a PITA if you log a lot of miles. As mentioned, some Pros... -Great tone -Super reliable -adequate power in stock trim. -Strong shaft mounted rocker set-up -Nodular iron blocks and cranks are real strong. The 272 I had in my 57 ran great until it had a catastrophic breakdown. Sure, I had lots of issues with reliability, but I'm sure if I had the knowledge I have now at 17, maybe I would have just replaced it with another Y. That said, upgrading to the B/RB Mopar was the best decision I ever made. It would have cost THOUSANDS to get the kind of performance out of the Y that the stock 383 delivered.
my oil pan for my 292 truck motor was a rear sump and was even that much of a sump to tell you thye truth...I'll try to get pics
I'm glad someone finally brought in the weight concern. Just about everything except this issue was addressed. These motors weigh as much a an FE but there is no option of going with aluminum heads. Also one advantage to these motors is they used the same mounts as FE's in early ford cars and if you get a 292 out of a truck you will have yourself a forged crank. Not that its easy to spin the rpms or make the power to need a forged crank but its nice to know that you have the dependability. I just pulled apart a Y block I got for free where one of the con rods snapped and they kept running it... knocked two huge chunks out of the block. i was rather imppressed at the carnage somebody was able to do to a y block. Oh and somehow they also snapped the camshaft? I'll post pics if the block hasnt already been taken to the scrap yard.
they sound cool cuz they also have the flathead firing order. starter bolts... i'm guessing like on my FE, you use every extension you own and a ratchet and tighten from waaaay at the front of engine because you can't get a wrench on it at the starter flange. then next time you have to swap out, maybe install a stud. i bought a truck with an extra engine that turned out to be a 312. most parts can be found ebay, dennis carpenter, concours parts, and the Y forum. they are making more Y parts these days, see speedway catalog. H&H carries more now also - like said, they're getting more attention lately. you see more in R&C, hot rod etc. blue thunder, john mummert has intakes and an aluminum head on the way. not to mention, roller rockers for those rocker shafts. remember too, ford had a supercharger for em in 57, a sought after item. FYI, a reputable Y-builder is entering in the Engine Masters Challenge next month.
Only 50 pounds heavier than a 350 Chevrolet Y Block ----------------625 pounds Flathead Ford-----------569 Chevy 350--------------575 Ford 302----------------460 Olds 303----------------700 Caddy 331--------------720
You can get a new gear reduction starter for a Y-block,MSD and Mallory each make various distributors.Adaptors for C-4,AOD are available plus a bolt on adaptor for a T-5.An early narrow bolt pattern T-10[this is what I have] or Toploader bolts to a passenger stick bellhousing,need to trim about 1/4' off input shaft or counter bore the crank.There are thousands of Y-blocks running in T-birds,trucks and passenger cars and reliability is not an issue.There are also new aluminum water pumps and new design intake manifolds and Speedway has truck exhaust manifolds.
the forged C1TE crank only came in heavy duty applications, such as school-buses, big-rigs of the Y block era.. it will usually be indicated by a D after the casting number on the block.. Also John Mummert is about to release an aluminum head for these.. he already has a few aluminum replacement parts available already.. and as far as the frame clearance you have two options to make it easier.. you can use the front motor mount like the trucks and T-birds did or you can use the side mounts like all the others.. gives you a little more options..
Just to add a clarification: all y-blocks are solid (mushroom) lifter setups. The engines themselves are very heavy. I don't remember seeing one in a 35 Ford with side panels on a hood. There maybe a reason for that. Yes, they have a unique exhaust sound. No, they are not powerful by today's standards. I ran several when I was a kid for alot of miles. You can do alot worse for a choice. Just be prepared for some surprises.
As stated earlier, they are stout and will run all day as it was designed for trucks. They can make good power but it will take some money and they never will be a big cubed motor,. the sound though is unique. The 292 is your best bet for a build. Modern seals for the mains are now available for the 292 whereas the 312 still uses rope-seals and they can spin if not installed properly. 312's are expensive as there were not a huge production run. Put a 312 crank into a 292 and you have a stroker, but forget about the 312 heads, they were not great heads. Some good reference materials to find: -Ford Y-block - how to repair and rebuild the 1954-62 ford OHV V-8 by James Eickman published by Motorbooks International, was out of print but now reprinted, well worth the 20 or 25 bucks. -Street Rodder Magazine ran a 10-part performance build starting in February 1999, included a y-block parts supplier list. -Street Rodder magazine again re-visited the y-block in their Vintage Engine series. Tech article was available on their web site at one time, circa 2007/2008. -Another Tech article on the Street Rodder web site was "rope tricks- putting an end to leaky y-blocks", again circa 2007/2008. -Rod & Custom March 2002 issue also had an article by Bob Carlise of Bob's F-100 Parts in California who builds y-blocks for many people. -Hot Rod Deluxe November 2008 issue also did an update on the y-block using some modern tricks. This article bumped the cubes from 292 to 326 and squeaked out 290 HP and 333 ft.lbs. of torques with a single 4. Not a barn burner by any means but in a light weight, goes like a fart out of a skunk. Lots of vintage parts still kickin' around for these motors, as well as new repro stuff, like the rams horn style manifolds from Speedway Motors, or Offy three-2's intakes. good luck.
If you use a 3/8 extension about 6" long. you can put that third bolt in the socket and poke it in there with no trouble
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