Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Rootie-
It was a fairly strong suggestion. But i thought that in a certain type flip that bar just might give me an extra inch or two from my head hitting the track quite as hard.
Plus, thay often did cut down on some front end and nose piece damage.
I guess maybe at least part of it was monkey see; monkey do.
And the tubing we used didnt add much weight.

 

Langhorne sprints:
Start of a heat race mid-50s, kinda looks like Tommy H. in the first car down low.

1961-Bobby Marshman #44, Herk #56

 

I noticed the samething, out in calif. most of the CRA cars had that hoop over the nose.

 

I don't remember Honore's Deuce running anything but the IMCA. I thinK Old Bill is correct about the City of Roses car with Cliff Griffith driving. Grimm and Folse drove the car with Offy power; then in late 63 or before the 64 season Honore swithched to the Chevy along with several driver changes.
PK

 

Not sure weight was a big problem back then, radiator saver maybe,monkey see monkey do probably. Here's several midwest cars with the bar.

Curt grogan

 

FWIW- came across this article tracing the history of Foyts 62 Watson car:

 

Get your butts up to eldora ... Were gonna do both nights as were planning to come down your way next saturday. Look at eldoras web site . we will be camping in lot 4 the free lot . We have a rockwood popup and a 4 door chevy colorado silver in color.. License N8DC (hamradio call plate) I have a couple blue super and sprint car stickers on the back of the camper also..We will have refreshments im sure and the popup also has heat ... Hell we got 6 inches of snow here the other night .. Since I dont have a job anymore ive got into making real mexican salsa and im gonna make some for the weekend. Get ther in time and we will have burgers and dogs too... Be sure to stop by.. If either of you guys decide your comming pm me (im leaving friday afternoon) and ill shoot you my cell number ..
Dave

 

cg5-
Your right, back then weight was no problem; my Hillegas car was very light. Far lighter than the three different space frame, four bar cars i drove.
Just makes sense that the hoop saved radiator damage, and finally, fads have always been a part of racing!
All fact; ive been there, done that.

 

There's a interesting story behind this car. It began life as the Watson built Konstant HOT roadster driven by Al Keller at Indy 61 and Herk at other venues. Rodger McCluskey ended up with it in the mid 60s and was going to use it as a promotional tool to rent to businesses around Tucson. His friend Hank Arnold talked him into selling it to him so he could use it to build a 4-bar sprinter. Well into slicing and dicing it into a sprinter he was forced to sell it to help finance the tire store he and McCluskey were starting up. Mel Heisler from N.M. bought the car with plans to have Arnold drive it after it was finished but Arnold was killed shortly thereafter. Buddy Taylor drove the car around the southwest for a while but it was then stored away for many years until Don Brown bought it and restored it in the 80s. The reason it has r/h steering is that is what the roadster had. Heres a couple pics from the 80s; different paint but the same car.

 

Rootie, the 50's picture from Langhorne is 1954. Al Keller leading Johnny Thomson, both in Sam Traylor cars, with Tommy down low. Its either Charlie Musselman or Al Herman next to Tommy.

 

I'm Sorry Rootie, but I don't believe the story on the Konstant Hot Roadster becoming that sprint car. Other than a right side steering link, nah too much work to morph.

 

I'm skippin' Eldora.. I'll be at Bloomington Friday night (opener) and L-Burg Sat. Night (opener)..

Mike Whitney (Richcraft mike) and I went to North Vernon last Sat for their opener. It's an hour and a half drive, and weather.com was calling for a %100 chance of precip.. So, of coarse we went!
We got to see Hot laps, heats, B-mains, and Three laps of the feature (in which they managed to junk Three cars, in Three seperate flips!) before the rain hit.

So, just this past sat. I got my Traveling gear ready, dad and I cut out at 5 am, went to Louisville for the Hot Rod Swap meet, at noon we headed 30 min. south on I-65 to Knob Creek for the INFAMOUS "Machine Gun Shoot", at 8:05 pm.. just after the initial EXPLOSIONS of the "night shoot" we ran to the truck parked a lil over a mile away, and hauled ass NORTH an hour and a half, just in time to catch the B-main and the $3000 to win Sprinter feature at Twin cities (north Vernon)..

What Sprint car fans will do for a "good time"

See you at the track.

JD

 

That's fine, believe what you like.

 

ok b that way im not skipping next weekend though... well a 60 percent chance of rain could stop us but my kids are pu$$ys ..
Have fun .
Dave

 

Apparently it wasn't the only Watson roadster to be cut down.

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</TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_3531563 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #e5e5e5 1px solid"><!-- icon and title --> Re: VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1969 and older only please.
<HR style="COLOR: #e5e5e5; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e5e5e5" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->This is an "original" Watson Roadster that ended up in Texas and was ran as either a sprint car or a modified by Ronnie and Jackie Burke, It was narrowed 7" Watson has added the 7" back to the middle of the frame and is restoring it. Again sorry that the picures aren't that great I only had my phone to take my pictures with.
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This was not close to being the only Roadster to be cut down into a Sprint Car. Ask some more of the guys in the know, or just take Rooties word for it. He knows of what he speaks! Nuff said!

 

When Cliff Griffith drove The City of Roses for Hector it had a Hal in it. Cliff was a lifelong friend of mine and I am sure they never ran AAA with that car. They ran MDTRA [ champs in 46,47], CSRA and a few IMCA races. When Cliff quite Hector he told him to put Grim in the car. He did and put an 8 valve Offy in it the same winter. Cliff never drove the car with an Offy and Bobby never drove it without one.
Jim Graybeal

 

JimG12: I went back to the AAA records, just to check. Cliff did drive one AAA race in the Honore Hal, at Salem , Oct. 19, 1947, finished 4th in feature. As you pointed out, they had a great record in MDTRA and CSRA with the Hal. I always admired Cliff (never met him) and thought that he would have been one of the Indy greats except for that fire. Thanks for your input. By the way, a cowling panel from the "City of Roses" car in original paint is in the Sprint Car Hall of Fame Museum.

 

This car is also on the first page post #9 in red and white paint scheme

 

Rootie is correct, from a "Open Wheel Magazine", July 1990 article. The author claimed it to be a Watson, showing the picture Rootie posted, and another of the roadster in K-Hot livery, but #38 from 1963 with Hurtubise driving it at Milwaukee. However, if you cross reference the article, with Greg Littleton's book "The Roadsters of Indianapolis", you will find the roadster in question was built by Jud Phillips. Al Keller drove it at Indy in 1961, the cars first year, then Bud Tingelstad drove it at Indy in '62, and Chuck Rodee failed to qualify for the 500 in the car now #38, in 1963. Bruce Homeyer also had a brand new 1963 Watson for Roger McCluskey, he spun on lap 198. This car became the Pope-Hall Enterprises car, Norm Hall driving in 1964 as #26, same owner driver combo for 1965 only #8 for that year. I believe Bob McConnell has the K-Hot #14 Watson now.

 

Had a nice blue scallop job on it at one time also.

 

OldBill, I stand corrected. That is why this site is so great. Cliff was very good at Indy and should have won Indy in 52 but plug wires broke down on him and he finished 9th [he gave me his 100 mph jackett from that race], he was one of the fastest all month in 53 untill the crash. After the crash when he got well he was good but never got the real good ride again.
Jim Graybeal

 

I read this post frequently. I probably should have asked this question months ago but thought it was too insignificant to bother you all with:

Does anybody know anything about a TQ my father, Joe Koesel, built in his Burton, Ohio body shop around 1962? It was Crosley powered and had - I think - a Crosley drivetrain. He sold it before I got the "car bug". He used to make body panels for some of the Cleveland area midget racers and decided to do a complete car in his free time. As I remember he sold it before it was completed (never ran).

I ask this now as I recently found the first race car I built ('23T) in the late '60s after not having seen it in thirty years since I sold it. This has spurred my curiosity as to the fate of dad's 3/4 midget. Dad is gone as is the TQ and I wish I knew more about both. Anybody? Thanks.

6RE6

 

Couple of places you might check with:
http://www.vintagetqmidgets.com/Home_Page.php
http://www.antiqueautoracing.com/

 

some good videos here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDCCDQ1Kf5s

 

About those nose bars or hoops-my Uncle and dad raced in URC and they alway called them IMCA bars. I think they may have been required in IMCA. They were considered a safety feature along with the roll bar. This was in the 60s.

They ran them on Midgets,too. Here is Uncle Jerry in an ARDC Midget at Hershey Stadium in 1968.

 

So we determined that the 1961 roaddster isn't a "Watson" as stated in the verifying article, but a Phillips. Now I know that Jud and AJ were partners once, and their cars were similar to identical, but would you call a Trevis anything but a Watson Clone??/

The 1963 Konstant Hot roadster was as pointed out, new that year and a Watson.

Yes I am well aware of roadsters being made into super Mods and sprinters of all sorts of types.

Seemed like a waste of time on this project, but the car is extremely well turned out. Just not a watson, as stated making me not believe the rest. No harm, no foul.

Love the pictures, keep them coming.

 

More from the 'Horne':

Mike Nazaruk shortly before crashing to his death, May 55

Johnny Boyd in the beautiful Bowes champ car on the way to becoming a rolling B-B-Q. 1958

Larson #35 and Marshman dicing 1964.

 

Rootie-
Thanks for posting more great ones. Gotta ask ya; are ya sure those are the right drivers? lol. lol. Just kiddin you; have yet to see you wrong, and there im not kiddin!

 

Oh no, I've been wrong plenty! part of living. But lifes too short to really worry about it too much.