Is there any wyotech or other auto trade school teachers out there

As a shop owner i have ran into this in the past with the local students from our vo-tech and sad to say but i don't believe there's an answer. with all the younger generations "give me "attitude, it is becoming extremely difficult to find workers who give a shit about a job or quality of there work. i think it was said in an earlier post the kids genuinely interested in this line of work don't go back to school, they get a job and realize they too have to pay thier dues in order to make a good salary. it's not that i'm saying that there cant be good students come from these class rooms but i think there should be mandatory tests such as tool identification, part names and so forth, in order to enroll in these classes. anybody worth a grain of salt that's looking for a job in this industry should be able to do these things easily. i have had graduates that wanted to go to work for me that couldn't read a tape measurer much less a micrometer. and dont let me ask them to correctly light and set a torch. my advice to someone is to remember that a piece of paper doesn't make you a damn thing, i dont even want to hear about it, "SHOW" me what you can do. thru ranting hot rust

 

I also go to a technical school and I can see where you are coming from. These schools can only teach you so much in the time you have, it takes years to get good at something and you sure are not going to be a pro at everything, or anything, in two or four years. From what I have experienced it is more of an introduction to a certain aspect of car building than actually teaching. You are shown the propper procedures and it's up to you to learn it on your own. If I put myslelf in your situation I would be asking the same stupid questions. I had a body and paint class and have painted pieces to cars, but that was two years ago, I havn't picked up a spray gun or sand paper since. This is mainly by choice since I hate body and paint work. Now sit me down to fabricate a frame or suspension and I won't be asking too many questions because after I was taught how to weld I bought a welder and started a project and basically learned on my own. These schools teach you so many things so you can learn what it is that you like, or are good at. You can't learn it all and be good at it all. Some of the classes I've had are; paint and body, sheet metal fabrication, drivetrain rebuilding, machining, chassis rebuilding, engine rebuilding, wood working, and upholstery. Out of these classes I feel comfortable doing only projects related to half of them. It's really what you want to get out of it. Your story reminds me of a job I had last summer. The boss asked me what I was good at in my interview and I told him fabrication and engines, then he has me doing detailing work and buffing paint. When you are not passionate about something you're not going to do as good of a job as you could and you will always have to ask questions. Maybe you should give your new employees a chance to try everything out before you get rid of them or crush their confidence.

 

I am 22 years old, I have been doing bodywork for about 6 years now and am very good at it. I am good at it because I want to do it and I have worked hard to get good at it. That said I went to college my last 2 years of high school, I worked hard every day, restored my own car and asked a lot of questions. I learned everything I could and the teacher was a 70 year old man who had done bodywork his entire life and also owned a few shops. I not only learned hands on the correct way to do bodywork, but also how a shop worked in all aspects. I graduated with top honors and the teacher flat out told me "you WILL start out washing cars, but stick with it, never stop learning, and someday you will be great". I continued my education and went to another college and took a hot rod/restoration course. This class was also taught by a older guy that had done bodywork all of his life. He taught the wrong way to do things and told you that it was the right way, and god forbid if you had a question. I started out washing cars at a shop where the instructor worked part time, I fixed his mistakes and kept my mouth shut. The others that I worked with taught me alot and I eventually moved on to other shops. I am now the shop foreman and manage 3 employees. I work hard every day and expect the same out of my guys. I will always be learning, from hands on work and a little trial and error, I am not the best and never will be. I believe that the best way to get ahead is hard work, and open mind and above all keep your mouth shut. If someone asks me what I can do I don't tell them I show them. To eddy, not all schools are bad, not all kids are bad, but it is extremely hard to find a good kid from a good school that is willing to work hard and earn what they want.

 

My first job was cutting grass it was a good money till I got put out of business. By a larger operation. I was a guy with a tandem axle trailer with every kind of mower you can think. And all I had was a push mower and a weed eater. So I do know a little about working hard and sad enough getting laid off of from my own business/job.

 

I went through wyotech 3 years ago or so...There are a LOT of fuckoffs there that think that just because they are there tehy will be the best. I was in a part called overflow...so we got 2 teachers to 25 students for 2/3s of my stay in the fuckhole of laramie. My instructors there basically told us that youll have the ups on communitiy college kids if you make the most of it, but dont expect to be a professional like the commercials make you to think you will be. After our stay of 6 months there, we chose our elective most chose streetrod. And not to brag or talk my class up, but we were alot more mature than the majority of the other guys/gals. I got alot out of that school, wasnt worth 32k or whatever i spent on it but if you dont get into a "click" youll generally do awesome. We had a kid in my class from compton that came there to get away from pushin drugs, didnt know what a fender was, no joke, turned out to be pretty good at bodywork and an amazing uphousterer. The school was whatever you got out of it.

 

Im glad i never signed up in high school. Sounds like a bottomless pit of bills and no skills to me.

 

Dude, what a relief reading this. All people, any age, should follow this.

 

I am so glad you posted this thread eddytheb! We have a painter's helper that graduated from the same Wyotech in PA. He was started out at 8 or 9 an hour. To the best of my knowledge, he was taught how to do metal/fab work. His job is prepping and buffing. He's been with us for maybe 2 years and will do NOTHING unless you tell him to, and when you do, he asks you how you want him to do it...like it was his first day. He takes no initiative, and my boss is a pascifist, so he gets a way with it while the owner and the painter cry to me about it. It infuriates the hell out of me, because I graduated with a masters from the shcool of "Hard Knocks" with more majors than I care to remember. I can't ever remember someone taking it easy on me, needless to say I paid my dues. These kids think that diploma is the golden ticket to the chocolate factory.


Having said that, I would like for everyone to read my road to success story. I'll try to make it the short version.
Ever since the age of nine (I'm 30 now) I knew I wanted to build hotrods. By the age of 10 I had fixed my dad's rusty ass Camaro one summer out in the gravel drive way using a drill w/a 6 inch sanding disk, a body grinder, some Sno-White filler, and cut off 2x4's with production paper stapled to them for sanding blocks.
Reading car magazine's, I learned all about paint products and did my first paint job at the age of 14, after my father and I built a 50x30x10 block garage by ourselves ( I even poured the floors). 6 months later I did my first customer car , an over all color change for 150 bucks plus materials.
Age 16 I got my license and got my first body shop job. I got out of school at noon and worked 40-60 hours a week for $4.00 an hour w/ no overtime pay (illegal for minors to work more than 40 hrs) I think my biggest paycheck was like $220.00 LOL.
I worked at the body shop cleaning cars and helping wherever I could and asking all kinds of related questions. I was laid off after I had started JVS for auto collision tech 4 months into my junior year. From what I had learned so far, I could have damn near taught my classmates the majority of my stay. After being laid off for a while, by chance or pure dumb luck, I ran into a guy who owned a junk yard and also ran a body shop out of it. He was older and burnt out, and he needed someone to finish his 64 Impala. This guy was/is old school to the core and is an Excellent bodyman. Once again 4 bucks an hour, made 60-75 bucks a week cash. Barely enough to pay for gas (truck did about 8 MPG). He taught me how to block shit the right way! Regretfully I quit prematurely to try and better myself at a Chrysler/Lamborghini dealership. I started out washing cars after JVS, usually getting off at midnight, had about 10-20 cars on my list to do every night. I was always praised highly for my work ethic and attention to detail, passing over a few of my subordinates in the process (including the guy that got me in!) I graduated JVS in 97, worked full time at the same dealer till early 98. I went to my first full time body shop job doing actual body work at 19. These guys were ASSHOLES. I was going through a rough patch with depression, and they did absolutely nothing but ride me. The shop was a shithole, I made 7 bucks an hour, had no tools, a car payment, insurance higher than the car payment, rent, utilities... I was living off of Mc Donald's and PBJ. I was regretting turning down Lincoln Tech to be a mechanic. However, there was a dude next door in service, fresh out of tech school, had a nice car, girlfriend, tools.....but he made the same money and was doing oil changes and brakes. Oh, and his parents were about to kick him out. Never did know what happened to him. Anyway, the dealership (bodyshop) I worked at went belly up and I was on my ass again.
Late '98 I took a chance on a guy I had heard nothing but bad things about except his work. I get hired on, get a real chance at making it, I became inspired and busted supreme ass. I was started out on hail jobs. I sanded so much every week that summer I would have dreams at night I was still sanding on a roof and would wake up pissed off LOL. In four years time I went from "one of those fukkin kids" to one of the best body men in the known area. By the age of 23 I was fixing things that guys with 20 years seniority wouldn't think about fixing. I still went through hell, but I earned it. That man(my boss) could be a real pain in the, well, everything, but I said it then, and I will say it now, and will continue to say it. I WOULD NEVER HAVE MADE IT THIS FAR WITHOUT HIM! I no longer work for him, too much Boyd-ish drama for my taste. I worked at another dealership (glutton for punishment), and I now work at an independant collision shop. I still haven't lost the dream to build hot rods someday, because I know that I'm close. Very close.

So, let me fill in all the blanks. I spent the last 10 years of my life putting myself, my whole life, and every extra penny into my career. I lived with my mom for the first 8 to help her out and to spend all I could afford on tools. I had no real personal life, still don't (women are a pain in the dick anyway). JVS is a waste of time because the highschools send all their riff raff to them for a last ditch effort to get them to make something for themselves. I started out with 40 kids in my class, graduated with about 20. Four of us took it seriously ( I was #1), 2 of us still do body work (#2). Tech school is like paying for JVS. Unless you get a factory paid training program (like UTI), and take it seriously, and have a general knowledge of your career choice, chances are you won't make it.
I saw this early on, so I cancelled my enrollment to Lincoln Tech. I had toyed with the idea of becoming an ASE World technician, but if all I'm gonna get is quick lube pay and quick lube jobs, I'm not gonna waste money on tuition, have living expenses, have to buy tools, and pay off student loans....screw that. I think I made the right choice

I just turned 30 this past New Year's Eve, and everything I own will be paid in full by the end of the summer. I have over $100,000 in tools and equipment. It's been a long ass road, but I'm just about there.

 

Check out McPherson College's automotive restoration program. The only 4 year bachelors degree in automotive restoration! I won't say every grad is ready to take on any project but McPherson prides themselves on a good blend of both theory and practice. If a MAC grad ever comes your way you grab 'em fast! www.mcpherson.edu

 

Tell him to give you the 32grand wyotech would cost and give him an education.

 

Well that was a shitty nights sleep. I got into the shop this morning at 6:45 am and one of my 13 year guys was there and he said his night sucked and could not sleep this morning so he came in. He was the one that was working with the new guy.

 

Some of this stufff brings back a lot of memories. I wasnt perfect either in my early days and still make the odd error although not from I dont care stuff but just human I guess and old. I remember for me there came a real turnig point when i started my own shop in 1976. Power Tune UP it was called. In about two weeks I discovered I couldnt blame "nothin on nobody else" because i was the only one there. While I barely made a living I learned more those years then any other. I remember when the other speciaty shops sent the occasional problem car to me for repair. It was then I knew it had paid off. For 5 years i worked hard here till i sold it to two dudes who ran it for about a year. They seemed to think they could leave a sign on the door and go to the Hotel for a beer. Anyway it changed me from a boy to a man ,this experience. No boss to blame , no fellow employee to lean on. Only the idiot I saw when I shaved to carry the ball. It quite frankly smartened me up. Although I didnt get rich there the experience served me well and I had several really really good jobs there after. Now as a washed up old "used to was" I cans till remember some of the more challenging repairs I was able to fix for deaerships and other shops. If only I had had a businesss sennse and knew enough to charge more. My second go at it i decided it would either live or die on its own. I charged enough to make a decent living and enjoyed it. I retired from car repair in 1997 at 47 years old. I had accumulated an auto machine shop of antique tools over the years and was trained in that as well and so i played around a bit building some experimental motors for fun (There is not huge bucks to made building motors. It is for most shops just something to work on when it is quiet.) I should have trained a helper but didnt think about it. Now at almost 60 with failing eyesight and mechanics crippleness I help the odd friend out with their race car. I can hardly see well enough for fine work now so they have to help. I say this to encourage those at the 1/2 way mark in working life like our 30 year old. You never know what life is bringing down the road. Be sure to enjoy every good minute and put the bad behind as fast as you can. Make a lot of friends and keep them. In your old age you worst competitors will be sometimes you best friends. Get every certificate you can in your craft. Sometimes it doesn't make you smarter as you may have been able to teach the course but it does give you credibilty and that you can take to the bank. As for young apprentices even at trade school I taught them "the broom and the garbage can are your best friends" starting out. Dont stand around and talk when it is slow. Clean, sweep, tidy up, make yourself indispensable. BTW it is normal for most treadesmen to have an emotional valley in their 30s. It goes away so hang in there. Vocational schools have a lot of problems too. Often nepotism in hiring employees is a big one. Friends of the head teacher often get hired even if not well qualified. The secret of survival in college treaching is to keep a low profile . I didnt fit that well. I had the highest qualifications trade wise but didnt know that. I assumed we all had multiple lisenses and ratings and was encouraging my students to do as good as possible and go for tthe best they could be. It was then i discovered I was the only one teaching with a particular Canada wide rating. Whoops!!!!!!! I enjoyed teaching and it improved my knowledge base to but I did rock the boat , perhaps too much. It was not intentional. Still this morning I had a student from 1990 phone and talk for a half hour about building a new Hot rod with EFi. He has done several.Totally homebrew too. Obviously he enjoyed our time together otherwise he wouldnt have bothered to phone. For some reason it seems the guys from the middle of the class do better than most. Sometimes it is surpising to see how far in their trade they rise. I find that encouraging. Exciting in fact.
Sorry i said so much. This subject gets to where i live. Don

 

i am a wyotech grad and feel that i can speak from experience. i think that the biggest problem with the school is that they convince you that you know everything. it was a tough few months to be put in my place ten times a day, but that is just part of working in a shop.
the fact is, it is the fault of most of the students. i took day classes and worked well into the evenings on many occassions one-on-one with my instructor. most of the teachers really do care, a lot more than the school. most of the students, on the other hand, are there because their parents wanted them off of the couch. it is amazing how many of them slept through class, but would pass the course and get the same piece of paper i did.
-drZ

 

That's exactly how I feel about those places. The recruiters come around and give you the big sales pitch, take a tour, whatever...The biggest thing that gets me is our grad refers to his experience as having gone to "college". I wouldn't exactly call it that, even if I went myself. But, it does sound much more cool, doesn't it? Everybody I went to school with thought they were ready to make 50 grand a year fresh out of school, because of how the higher ups pump you up. Sure, confidence can take you far. But at some point you have to put out. The sooner you get your cherry busted the better your chances are of making it. I'm grateful to have learned a lot ahead of time before the smoke started getting blown.

I'm glad I'm not the only one out there that feels like I do. I was thinking about this thread all day today. It made me realize how far I'd come and how far away it seemed back in the beginning.

eddytheb, don't worry about that kid so much. If it wasn't you, somebody else would have set him straight. Did you get a big warm, welcoming hug at your first gig? I know I didn't, and I can't say I would be any better off. You gotta have relatively thick skin to make it in this business, without losing who you are in the process. At least that's how it is in my neck of the woods.

 

All schools have a curriculum that they have to teach. My class is ASE/NATEF certified and and the student are tested with ASE material. I hate to see you guys hire these students that have been through these class and cannot do the job. I have tested student and they can pass the test today but a moth later they are totally confused the next time you ask them to do the same task. Students that start a new job and have to be told what to do may be a good thing. I have students that take upon them selves to go to the next step an screw it up. But that is better than not trying. Student that graduate these programs may need fine tuning most of them have never held a job and sat in front of the TV playing video games. I grew up working in the garage with my dad when he was not at work busting his ass. He taught me more than any school could have but now days you have to be a teacher and a parent in classroom and complete all of the lesson plans and teacher paper work. Vocational school work I see it every day. One thing to keep in mind is that these teacher have a 20 to 1 ratio not to bad but a lot of the student have special need to cope with that take extra time and when they finally get it makes you feel good all over. The school of hard knocks is a great school but if someone is there to teach you the correct way you are a head of the game. Maybe the problem is we are trying to teach to much in the class because we have to fulfill the curriculum requirements. I would like the employer to give me a task list and let me train that student to meet their requirements. Remember practice makes perfect.

 

I am currently a student at Pennsylvania college of Technology for automotive tech and business. Most of the kids in my class just picked this field because they think cars are "cool". In class they are generally sleeping or playing games on the internet, completely uninterested in the lesson. After class they complain how boring it is, but I find the information interesting.

I think it's mainly because they have nothing to relate the information to or motivate them. On the weekends or after class I have multiple automotive related projects going. I'm motivated to learn the stuff in class so i can complete my projects. The other kids don't have anything anything to use the information on, so they forget it. But on the other hand, most of the kids in there are lazy and given the choice would rather buy a brand new car instead of building it.

 

I can't say it enough check out www.mcpherson.edu !!!

 

The way I see it you either have the knack for it or you don't. Not everyone can be a body man, mechanic, fabricator-welder, engine builder, and engineer. Only a very select few can pull it off. Many may want to, but will never get there because there special god given gifts are just somewhere else.

You can sit at a ball game and watch players hit the ball out of the park and say Wow!!! When I grow up I want to be a ball player and do that!!! Most people could try, try, and try and never get even close. We are wired to do a certain number of things naturally, and the rest we can do but not without mistakes and struggle.

Trick is to find the talent inside that thick skull before you go down the wrong path and spend $30,000 on education.......

Shit where was I going with this anyway

 

I wish i would have known about mcpherson a few years ago.

 

This is a good post. I'm 20 and love working on my truck. I have a friend that has a truck built from the ground up... Doesn't know too much about it besides PRND21. Anytime anything goes wrong he takes it to a shop. I don't have the money or will to have someone else work on my truck unless I am completely stumped... Yeah I don't have the tools for every job but my buddy does. Anytime something goes wrong I take it to his shop and kind of teach him how to fix it as well as myself... I see him learning more that way then dropping it off and picking it up. I dont have nearly enough money to go to one of those schools. (Back then I wish I did) But now it's almost like something new to learn all the time. Just my 2c.

 

do you have to write essays at wyotech, because at my community college auto class i had to and thats why i failed, two essays 50% of the grade WTF!!

shop bitch for hire here will work for free.

 

Man it kind of sucks to hear everyone bag on these schools.. Yes there are some dumbass people in this world and im pretty sure that goes for every trade. But then there are people like me that never did good in any class except shop and never wanted to sit behind a desk all friggin day. I have worked steady in the trade in one aspect or another since finishing high school I had kids early on which made me need to bust ass to support my family.. now that they are a little older I am taking the oppertunity to go back and learn some of the things to make me better at the thing I love to do whats so wrong with that? I have some awesome teachers who have been in the industry for a long time and have the knowledge to put me on the right path so when I finish i will have more confidance in what little skill i have to take it to the next step and no we dont have to write essays. we are in class like maybe a week and a half total and the other four and a half in the shop per class. I am a hands on learner If I was to be in a class for any longer i wouldnt be here. I dont know how it is in other states but I know in my home town the year I graduated high school in 1999 was the year the lovely cut backs happend and the shop programs where 86ed from high schools. so some kids there never even got a chance to learn if they can do it or not.. And come on alot of kids the leave home for the first time to go to college or trade schools get that taste of freedom away from mommy and daddy and dont know how to act so they go a little wild. But there are those of us that have a desire to learn and are here for the right reasons and are soaking up all the info we can. Like i said before i do not expect to come out of school and be the hot stuff at any shop and make big bucks but i will earn everything i get and will prove to be a good asset..

 

you have the right attitude. and are so correct!

 

Gr8ness13 I am glad that someone is giving an opinion from the other side of the fence. Thank you for the HELP. Education, pay me now or we all pay later.

 

I was a Service Manager in serveral large dealerships for more than 20 yrs., most trade schools, auto tech instutes, and colleges that train technicians are in it for the money! About one in ten of the guys that come out are trained techs, the rest might think they are ready for the world of automotive technology, but they soon show the real deal, they will never have what it takes. A perfect example is the high school automotive programs, they put the kids there when they can't qualify for the tougher courses, with no math or science background, they can never be trained in the highly technical automotive industry of today! I've been seen as the A.H. as well, when I've had to sit the kid down time and again and give the wake-up to reality talk and send him to the lube-rack or out the door! Loving old cars and helping Dad in the driveway won't cut. I interviewed at Virginia College for an instructor's possition, when I went through the shop all I saw was bagged suspensions, and pro-stock chassis projects no real hot rod fabrication at all. They sold the school to Wyo Tech shortly after, now it's closed down. Thank the Lord I decided not to join the staff.

 

You’re the DAD. I’m from the old school of thought. Kids need to be guided, advised. It’s a shortfall to tell him that it’s all up to him. If he wants to go to school/college to learn a degree, doctor/ lawyer/ business administration/science, etc that requires a lot of cerebral power, that’s one thing, but one doesn’t need school to learn mechanical skills. Even high school shop classes were developed for the students that were indicating they weren’t cut out for higher education, and the systems way of taking the easy way out, keeping the kids occupied.

A trade-school is NOT higher education. It's a way for the schools to "get their share" of government student loan money.

The school of hard knocks is the teacher.

Tell him he will be ahead if he hit’s the pavement and finds a shop where he can learn the job on the job. By the time he has "real" job experience, the low starting pay will have been offset by the fact that he don’t have a $20,000/PULUS student loan to pay off!


It's my opinion that all of the success stories here from guys that are doing well is that they, absent attending a formal trade school, would have succeeded anyhow, even might have done better without the delay that attending factor.

If he don’t listen to you, as it is with all advice we give our kids, then at least you tried.

 

excellent subject! i myself did not go to college or tech school, got on the job right away. although i did start pushing a broom after school as early as 12. i have hired these guys from every glam tech school over the past ten years and every one of them has been the same, wyotech, uti, whatever, ive done everything, you cant teach me anything i dont know attitude. all gung ho in the interview and useless within a week. over the past few years i started telling them that we do a two week un paid probationary period, that takes care of most of them (never see them again) the few that did stick around make it a couple weeks some times a month or two. but in the end its always the same, they are incapable of simple tasks, always dealing with come backs, and unhappy with the $8-12 an hour they arent worth to start. funny when theyre mommys & daddys come in and tell me im wrong too. last summer i actually had one that flat out told me he wanted to work in a dealership, that he had no interest in learning anything custom. that to me just meant he wasnt a car guy really.

right now i have two guys that i hired out of a local rehab/detox type state program and they are the hardest working most willing guys, ready to learn every day. one of them i have known for almost the ten years that ive owned my shop the other is new within the past two weeks. but theyre great, and ready to stick with it for the long haul. the only downside is reporting back and forth with the program director. its also nice to help out society and the community in general i think. i myself am somewhat of a recovering alcoholic. you guys that run shops should look into it, i really recomend it.

 

I feel for 4 ya eddytheB. I've seen both sides of the fence. I've been a teacher in the auto trades and I own and operate an auto repair/hot rod business. Most of the students and instructors are on different adjendas. The students aren't quite sure what they want to learn and their previous schooling didn't help teaching any kind of ethics. On average I saw about 1 in 20 students that actually had an interest in the trade and or skill. The instructors mostly were concerned about their paycheck. Not all mind you, but the majority. I was told by one teacher, "leave that kid alone, he's gonna fail anyway". When I asked an obviously unqualified instructor, how he's capable of teaching a subject he knows little to nothing about, he said " I just stay one page ahead of them".
I hired a kid who was top of his class (I checked) who couldn't change a starter on a old small block Chevy. 3 hours later and about a hundred tools laying on the floor, he still didn't have it out on the floor (I had a meeting to go to). That was his last day.
Don't get me wrong, there are some excellent instructors and even better students out there, it's that they are few and far between.
Sorry about the bitterness, but what happened to showing up on time, doing the job asked of you, trying your hardest to complete your task and common sense.
Like someone else said previously, if these kids could make a living playing electronic games they'd be millionaires

PS 3 of my 4 boys were limited on the amount of time they could play those things, they all have hands on jobs and ethics. The 4th was raised by his mom and .....well you can guess

My.02

 

I went to trade school after getting laid off at the age of 32. I was amazed at how the younger guys acted, you would have thought that they were still in high school...

I busted my ass in school, got the best grades I could, and succeeded. My first employer out of school (and still my employer!) told ME up front that I didn't know anything, that I would start my real education that day! And they were right! I didn't know jack about how to work on real world equipment, but I had the basics to learn. I also didn't have years or decades of bad habits and poor skills to correct.

I think the problem with hiring someone from a trade school is the expectation level that the employer may have. These guys out of school don't have any idea what they know or don't know. Don't hire them on their ability to bullshit, put it to them straight-"You don't know shit, but if you are willing to work hard, listen, and learn, you'll have a job here." I bet that will clear up a lot of your problems.

YOU set the expectations and guide them, then it's up to the student to show you they are committed. I'm willing to bet you'll be a lot less stressed about it when you let them go, because you'll have done your best to help them succeed.

Just my worthless opinion.

 

I only have experience with one person, so take this for what it's worth, but a couple years ago I met a guy who was fresh out of Wyotech. I was actually looking forward to learning from him. HA! It only took an hour or two to notice that he talked a lot but didn't actually do much. He kept saying things like "that will drop right down. That's how we did it" when there was no way in hell any thinking man could look at the situation and believe it could drop right down. (I'm being vague on purpose, because he was a nice guy and I don't want him to see this and get pissed at me.)

But the bottom line was he didn't seem to understand the basics of what we were doing, and yet was full of confidence that he knew exactly what he was talking about. So that was my one encounter with a fresh Wyotech graduate. Prior to that I had actually considered checking those places out if I ever decided on a career change. Now? Not so much.