If I am going to balance my 375hp 327, should I also blue print it? What does it do for me and how much $
just drive the shit out of it.sometimes you just got to step forward and say"hey,i decided this on my own"
Im a newbie here, but i thought blueprinting was just checking and double checking all your tolerances (and making them all what they should be) and rebuilding everything possible as well as planning (on paper) how well everything will work together. If i was correct with the definition, is that not whats involed with any proper rebuild.
this term is tossed around a lot in the industry. i guess you could check all the clearances and call it blueprinted. meaning as per the factory specs. i would just check everything you can and have it balanced as closely as you can aford and call it good. i myself am building a 327 small journal for my 62 ranchero
True blueprinting is a bit more than rebuilding to meet factory tolerances. Ultimately it means you make the entinre engine meet the IDEAL factory measurements, not just what the tolerances are. It usually includes decking the block, surfacing the heads, line boring(not just honing) the mains, making sure the cylinder holes are in the exact correct location/distance apart from each other, as well as at a perfect 90 degree angle to the other side, checking to make sure that the lifter bores are truely square to the cam, piston/deck height is exact, combustion chamber cc's are exact cam is installed by degreeing it to the crank, as well as various other things. For 99% of street driven cars this is more costly than the additional power/longevity could ever provide, but this is very important in classes where minimal modifications are allowed. A GOOD rebuild should be plenty for you, everything clean and nothing forced to fit is the key to assembly.
Are you going racing? High RPM's? To me, Blueprinting a motor consists of things to extend a motor life or make more power, with special consideration given to (not all necessary or recommended, just what I would do if building a race motor): Block- Decking, sonic check/ Proper honing for rings Block deburring- Casting flash, oil drain chamferring... Crank work- Cross Drilling, knife edging, balancing Rods- Balanced Pistons- Weight's exactly the same? head clearance? sharp angles smoothed to promote flame travel/skirt clearance/ Gas ports(Drag Only)/ coatings Heads- CC'd Combustion Chambers/ Ported, polished with runners CC'd ports matched to intake/exhaust Hardware-Studs.. Head and Mains Everything Documented and laid out so you can reference later... EDIT Saw dual quads post after I typed this. What he said
I'm building two engines right now. A 350 stroker -383, and a SJ 327 +.060. I had them both align honed, bored, decked, deck plate honed and balanced. Of the above, I'd do without the align hone before I'd sacrifice not having them balanced. That's my opinion, but I think the balancing saves a bunch of wear on the internal engine components.
When I bought my cam and all my parts and decided what to use cam crank piston ect I was told that process is blue printing .My 2 cents
Since I am in the over 60 crowd and have been blueprinting (some motors more than others) my motors since the early 70's.................for me it's the only way to put a motor together. Blueprinting a motor is what put people like Smokey Yunick and the Wood Bros in the front of the pack. Blueprinting causes less friction, less friction reduces heat, and that all adds up to increased engine life..................and yes, more HP and lbft of Torque. I may have been assuming too much here, but when you guys put a motor together don't you check the deck height, piston clearance, ring clearance, mike every bearing to make sure that every rod journal and main journal has the same clearance......? You don't need to pay some shop that may or may not know what blueprinting is, YOU CAN DO THIS YOURSELF and save money and make sure it was done. Two words are used together, Engine Preparation and Blueprinting and one can't be used without the other. For me at least, I would never have any machine work done on a motor without checking every last detail.....................and assembling the motor myself to make sure it goes back the way I want it to. First, the block is "blueprinted", align hone/align bore is checked and done if needed, cylinders are bored and honed for each piston (as pistons can differ in size) the boring and honing are done with torque plates, deck surfaces are machined in reference to centerline of the crankshaft, blocks are hand de-burred, bolt holes are chased or re-tapped. Component preperation is done to all internal parts such as de-burring, hand washed and inspected. Piston pins are pin fit and con rods are fit to spec's, cranks are balanced to within .5 grams or less, crankshaft holes are chamfered and crankshaft bearing surfaces are micro polished to spec. Cylinder heads are ported (Now CNC porting is the big thing because it makes sure every port is the exact same as the other) and chambers are cc'd for correct compression, heads are surfaced to insure deck flatness, setting of spring height and retainer to guide clearance and if they are OHV, the rocker geometry is checked and the heads are de-burred. When you assemble the motor you verify; cylinder bore diameter, cylinder wall taper, piston diameter, deck height of block, all bearing clearances, torque specs, lifter bore diameter, piston skirt taper, piston to wall clearance, piston ring end gap, rod side clearance, valve ajustment, crankshaft end play, piston to valve clearance, degreeing the cam, correct oil during priming....................... This is the reason I drag raced for 3 seasons in my SS/IA Camaro without ever disassembling the SB................C. IMHO
The +.060 motor would met the criteria anyway. Blueprinting also can include special tricks known only to the builder doing the work. For the sake of arguement, if you did go through the whole process, would YOU know the difference? That would be a reasonable answer to your first question. Additionally, the highly variable driving conditions of street use would make it impossible for you to measure the improvement. Do you have a particular 1/2 mile piece of road that you would want it optimized for? Then what good would it do on the rest of the world's roadways?
Me too. At the end of the day the motor doesnt belong to the rebuilder. If its friday afternoon and the wifey is bitchin at him, its real easy for him to do something half ass. You know, like be a couple thousands off, or not proberly tork a main bolt,or just get the balence close. Alot can happen to an engine when he is in a hurry. granted i cant balence or machine yet, but i try to do eveything else.
A good book for beginner engine builders, and advanced engine builders for that matter, is Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets. Its a great book and really makes you think about stuff that normally wouldn't be covered in a how to build SBC book.
The Yunick book is good. I am a big believer in the small block chevy motor. Good luck and when you get 375hp lets see some burn out pics.
Thanks to all, a good education for me. And a special thanks to dreddybear and A Chopped Coupe as you cleared up a bunch for me. Not going to race this thing, but want a keeper drive train for my 55 Nomad that can kick some ass!! (meaning have some fun).
I concur....kinda like the 3.4 race cam term. Oh wait one does not check tolerences and specs before assembling and engine....WHAT HELL have I been wasting all my time doing ::O:
A good high performance engine builder always blueprints an engine automatically. That's the only way they know how to do it. It's like you have to pay extra to have all the cylinders bored and honed to the same size ???? And you have to pay extra to have the valves all at the same height ??? In my mind this should be common practice for every machine shop !! >>>>.
not sure which way i am going to go just yet. i know the towers will have to be cut but i just found a guy back east that makes a copy of the brace ford made back in the day for their A/FX cars. either that or straight axle.
no just check all clearances bore endplay bearings rods check connecting rods all 4 points get magnafluxed first as i recall blueprinting involves making all the clearances sloppy connecting rods i aquired amotor once that this was done to told it had a knock the connecting rods were ground down uneven so i replaced all the rods and had balanced plus another negative is you will never be able to rebuild cheaply why spend the money unless your racing
When I was Drag Racing in the early 70's a typical Blueprint would start at 2K and up Depending what had to be Done! and if you are going to Race you do a Blueprint by a Good Race Engine Rebuilder that knows what hes doing just my 2 cents
you should check all clearances and have rotating assembly balanced but what you have to research to truly blueprint is how much it costs to index the crank, deck/square the block, cc the heads etc. call the machine shop and get a price and if it's worth it to you, race or not, then it cant hurt. knocking off all the casting flash, smoothing the cast surfaces inside and painting w/ electric motor or ? payng attencion to detail and making sure every clearance, torque, size and the cleaning of all the parts is the key. also that your combo of cam, heads, valve size, manifold/carb and header size/length etc is compatible. tuning also. "sometimes a little OCD is a good thing"
Dreedy bear and A chopped coupe said everything in my book. Blueprinting is "as designed" not "as built". Engineers & drafts"persons" put out a BLUEPRINT for building. Casting marks-casting shifts-allowable tolerances all vary from designed. Everthing inside the block should be polished-balanced-clearanced if you want to blueprint. $$$$$ But who then can say that the engineer goofed on his design & lost some HP or torque because it was a Friday afternoon or a Monday morning with a Hangover because his NFL team won or lost. In a Model A roadster or a 3000 lb car with a modern V-8 what's a few lost HP??? Change the carb-intake manifold-cam & put on headers.
Like others before me have said, blueprinting a block will reveal torque and horsepower because of friction loss. Why? A seasoned block will most likely have a core shift in the main and cam bearing areas to be around .0005" to .001" in more than one direction. Your tolerances for a longevity street build will allow fow .0025" clearances to allow for oil between the crank and bearings in the main journal area. Move that clearance to the side and up by .001", and you have used up most of the oil movement area that should be there. Why have all vehicle manufacturers have a small percentage of fresh junk engines and 50k mile junk engines? Production tolerances for cam bearing fit, flatness of deck, etc. YOU WILL BE SURPRISED HOW BAD FACTORY MACHINING TOLERANCES ARE ACCEPTABLE. Then take that casting and put it through a temperature cycle. A fresh, brand darn new block put through 12 heat cycles in a 350 degree engine builders "hot tank" will move around as the block is seasoned without generating heat within itself. I spent $1400 with my engine machinist to check the line bore and deck on what he figured out to be a late '60's high nickel 010 SBC block. The mains move to one side and up by .0015" at the worst place. He HAD to line bore the cam bearing journals because he found worse than normal bad, oil pressure losing fit when he tried to install the stock replacement cam bearings. I told him to make all the cam bearings to on the same config throughout. I'm one happy broke SOB. Production engine rebuild shops don't measure for core shift or deck movement unless they really, really care about what they are sending back out the door. BTW, you can free up 40 hp without by just blueprinting a 302 GT block without changing piston, crank, cam, or heads. I've been listening to advice from dirt car, drag car, rebuilder engine builders for a while. If you take a listen and learn, you might figure out why somebody cussed something that is known as bulletproof in most cases. In my case, a 283 when I was 10. Thanks to HRM Pump Gas Drags Nathan Mann and his brother Charlie Mann. And also to BigChief, yekcoms, and Engine Pro 5X for part of my education. Just listen.
Yes and no. The money it cost to really blueprint a stock block is a waste of money when you can buy an aftermarket Dart block for a little more money. All you would really need to do is - Have the block cleaned and checked for cracks. Line hone the mains ( round and same size ) so main bearing clearance will be right. Sq the deck up. Hone the block with torque plates Magnaflux the crank for cracks Balance the crankshaft ( rods and pistons ) (flywheel and pressure plate) Good rod bolts and have the rods resized ( round and same size ) so rod brg clearance will be right. Set bearing clearance ( rods and mains ) and set thrust clearance. Degree the cam and mark the balancer for TDC. Surface the heads, a good valve job and set spring pressure for what ever cam you plan on using. Do not use main studs because the only time studs work is when their is a gasket in between the surfaces being torqued. Cross-drilling and knife edging is a fuckin waste of time and does not help.. There is a lot of wrong information on here.. Good Luck,
E.C., Don't know how many race motors you've put together, or street motors for that matter, but what you just said about blueprinting is BS...............plain and simple. Here is a picture of my SS/IA Camaro that raced for almost 3 seasons (and was within 3/10 of the national record most of the time) without ever tearing down the 327 or PowerGlide trans put together by A-1...................trans was also "blueprinted"................lets see yours????
If I hurt your feeling I'm sorry. I dont believe I said anything about (A Chopped Coupe) dosent know shit...your .5gram balance job.....which is BS. .5gram from what 50%,51%,52% bobweight. Their is more to Blueprinting then what you read in the books. I dont have anything to show sorry. There is a lot of shit on here that is a waste of money on a stock 327 block. Thats all I'm trying to say . Spend some of that money else where.
E.C. who are you trying to impress with your location in Texas , where you reside???. "6th floor book depository" only makes me resent you. and I was alive on that day and remember it in Highschool when it came over the PA speakers. I don't try to dis. people on this site because they have their opinions from their own experiences. Learn from that, before spouting off because of your book observation and not true rubber to road. Still true blueprinting is only an unneeded speedshop moneymaker in the traditional hotrod industry. my thoughts. Movin/on Moderators delete this if you must.
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