Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Promoters....
We actually used to have more to promote. My first trip to Ascot was in 77, and it was all over television and the radio. Wolfgang was going to drive the 98...Agajanian's own car. Going after Oskie in the JFK car which was the hottest combination at the time. And it was standing room only. Same deal with our early silver crown. Mid 70's I watched Foyt run against the viceroy cars of Mario and Unser..Gary B thrown in with his Moser Chevy at the time. That promoted itself without much help needed. We dont have too many superstars that can, or are even capable of coming in to run some dirt. I think there is a ton of talent around, but it seems like the household names are'nt as common... I dont really see any end in sight since we lost our open wheel kids to the taxis...and not many come back.

 

You have to promote the competition, the action, the entertainment. You can't rely on the superstars to bring the people in, because they won't be at the local tracks for long. We new Jeff Gordon wasn't going to be around too long.

 

Very true..But they always jump on the ravalry first. Or try to create one with a name someone can relate to. Gary and Larry show, Op vs Gary B. outlaws vs. usac, penn. posse etc... Not sure how they can promote action without something visual, I alway thought a camera shot going into three at eldora in a promo would draw people...well, it would work on me anyway.

 

Not to worry guys, ain't nothing wrong with open wheel racing that the infinite wisdom of USAC can't fix.

 

Took me awhile to quit laughing on that one....so well put

 

One thing is for certain, loyalty in this business can be a very elusive thing.


I understood the enclosed trailers when it came from driving state to state, not under 50 miles. Enclosed trailers have done more than their share of killing the crowds at local shows.

Wings caused a drop too.

OkC-
A 1960's show would draw 7k
A 1980's Outlaw show- 6k
A 1980's regular event-3k
today- less than 3k
Fewer people in the stands means less money to justify in giving back to the teams. Still the unrefuted rumor is that the $1k to win shows are nailed by $25k engines. Explain that insanity. Then watch them roll in with trailers that look like concessionmobiles. We were warned about oversaturation with sprints ie-Karl Kinser. A number recently thrown out there put the sprint count nationwide at 4k+. I think that number is high, but still..................

An enclosed trailer is not an inviting sight to the average-less than average fan. When the "I could do this" feeling is gone, so are potential fans.

 

With all due respect, those of us out here in ESPN land didn't know Gordon wouldn't be around for long USAC wise. After he was gone, many of us turned our eyes towards USAC just to see what else USAC had on their roster.

 

So here is a question for you guys to ponder...

What cars today are running that will be our collectables of tomorrow? Which cars are out there running now... that will be desirable and collectable in 20-30+ years?

 

I'm going to post this photo only because others have posted pictures of the Munchkin (which is a midget) on this thread. I was chastized for posting a roadster here ( oh the horror ) Here is the famous car as it sets today. Besides me, who knows the true story how Tony ended up with the car??? hehehe
Gene

 

classic cars today?
any of the Beast chassis racers especially in midget form- modern dirt and asphalt midget racing is SO much better than the coverage or promotion they get, same goes with the previous silver crown USAC cars before the goofy things we see now...

 

IMHO, any front running car that survives 20-30 years from now and has had a couple of name drivers history with the car. That pretty much is true today of the cars 20-30 years old.
Gene

 

History on a collectable car 20-30 years old helps, but it is not the defining factor. I know of a grant king supermodified(stretched silver crown) in OkC that never won a feature. Yes, there are many who would like to get their hands on it today.

Each car has at least one thing going for it if they are old race cars-History, simplicity, craftsmanship. Any car that has the most of all 3, is of course going to go for bigger bucks, or at least be worth it.

 

But then there will be repop cars. Someone, somewhere will replicate a GK,Leffler etc car. Todays cars, well that is a good one.

 

something about beer, bull shitting and a poker game ? the beer and the bull shitting and prolly more beer and tony made a call and woke fedorcak and an offer was put on the table...????????

Dave

 

I would think any car that was used to win a usac championship would be a good candidate. I wouldn't kick one of the Lewis 9 midgets that Stewart drove to the triple crown out of my garage.

I think interesting cars that had some success that are not a big name builders like beast will also be good ones to track down. Some of Dan Drinan's early cars, Chet Philip built a neat sprint car that one a feature at IRP in the 90's, The Hoffman v6 car that Vogler drove would be on the short list,(they still have it) and Cincinnati local Cliff Jacobs built his own asphalt midget chassis that won the night before the 500 with J Parson driving might be a good one to keep.

I agree that any car that has verifiable history of any kind after20-30 years is probably going to have some interest.

 

I won't say who has this car since he may not want anyone to know.......... But this car was built out of necessity. Tobias took a sprint car frame after he crashed his regular silver crown car and made a silver crown out of the sprinter. He then went on to do very well with it. Toby would have been proud! One of the FEW cars I've seen that meets the criteria of what is collectable. I saw this car pick it's way through the feild at Tulsa against some very good cars and it got in the top5.

 

Whoa. Maybe JP won with a Cliff Jacobs car earlier, but I remember Cliff Jacobs' car from the late 80s and 90s, and if I'm not mistaken it was Ted Hines that won the Night Before the 500 in that car. I remember talking to Cliff after a TV race the week before, when Ted came close to winning. Cliff said, "It was only 30 laps. Next week is 50, he'll probably win it." I reminded him of that during the trophy presentation, and used it in my story about the NB4.

 

I remember that Tobias car. Glad to hear its still around.

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Roy... You said it better my friend. Seems like everyone in the stands is "with a car"

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The car at Kokomo had about ten different colors on it! I don't know if it was the same one or not.

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As for cars today to get. Your all on the right track. Teams today go through SO MANY cars that I feel the cars that had "Winning streaks" will be good ones. Think about Jon Stanbros Black 53 from last year. How many features did that thing win in ONE SUMMER? 40-50? Dad and I saw it at the end of the year and the fuel cell was lined with FIVE rows of feature win stickers! Well, dad and I have gotten to know Jon a little bit and we tried like HELL to buy the fuel tank off the car at the end of the season. They just laughed and said, "you'll have to buy the whole car" Well, they did sell the whole damn car! Imagine if you had that car in 20-30 years.
When dad and I first got really serious about "getting involved" with vintage sprinters we went to Lynn Paxtons place for some parts to build our Blue Nance. Lynn showed us his "Wiekert's livestock" from The 80's (I think). At the time I didn't get it. It was cool, but I just didn't get it. My dad did. He wouldn't quit talking about "What we just saw"...

Now nearly 10 years later... I GET IT!! That car was a winner.

JD

 

Ya mean cars like this....if still intact. The quality machines with quality drivers with wins will bring the true collector to the auction ring. I think Barrett-Jackson has opened my eyes to that fact.
Gene

 

The comment about the Lewis 9 got me to thinking, Josh. Wouldn't it be something to have the Lewis 9 midget, and the Neibel sprint and SC that Tony drove that year? I wouldn't be surprised if Tony has them.

 

A couple are in his shop in Denver NC. two Lewis cars. They both won races..I think one was the hut hundred car, I forgot what the other did... and the red 67 Zarounian car he won the chili bowl with. There are 3 neibel 20 cars, At least one was a v-6, maybe two. Seems like one was a silver crown. He also had a couple indy cars and bunch of stockers....his little personal museum.

 

Hope this is not too O/T but I couldn't agree more on the "open trailer" experience being one of the truly neat things about our passion. As a kid growing up in Iowa, I remember seeing dirt track coupes and sedans from local tracks and shouting "mom,dad, can we please go to the races".....and we did and it started a lifelong passion.

Now, 50 yrs. later, I bought a CAE sprinter at the Danny Kladis estate sale in New Lenox Il. last weekend. I also got some pretty nice old parts and pieces...Offy, CAE, Riley, etc. ...and an old tractor. Anyway, on Wed. evening I was pulling car with lots of parts on my open trailer from New Lenox to Iowa when I had FIVE people start conversations at rest stops, gas stations and fast food joints on I-80 going west. The car didn't even have all the body work on it but still people wanted to talk. The classic was a father and son who pulled into the gas pump where I was fueling...the father say...is that a midget...I said you're close, it's a sprint car. The dad turned to his son and said, "see I'm right....you thought it was a RAT ROD"

 

Did you buy it ??!! I was there as well. That was quite a mix of parts.

 

And the most unique weight jacker I've ever seen

 

Are you refering to a driver adjustable weight jacker? If so, they were pretty much standard fare back in the old cross spring front days. CAE, Edmunds, Speedway and most others had a version, not to mention a lot of home made ones. This is a CAE unit.

 

Yes, I was the high bidder originally on the car but the famiy would not accept the bid. Later the auctioneer negotiated between myself and several bidders and late in the day I was the "proud" owner of the sprint car. I also got about 15 sets of 12" Halibrands with vintage tires for my pair of midgets. Also, some Riley carbs, misc Offy 110 engine parts, Offy 110 cams, neat old black race programs, a trophy, midget Q/C rear end etc. When I went back on Wed., there were some very enterprising guys who were high bidders on "leftover contents of bldgs". They were searching the two bldgs. like any archeological dig....using large shovels to pick up dirt, beer and pop cans and misc parts on floor of shop. According to family member, they were findling all sorts of small parts including misc. Offy 110 engine parts !!! Jim, did you buy anything ??

 

Thanks, Jim. I wouldn't be surprised if those are the triple crown cars. And I know Glen Niebel did have a V6 - Bob Frey used to drive it and I think he won the Little 500 at least once with a Niebel car.

 

tractor...the sable wagon was all I bought..big enough I guess. I knew, and am a branch of the family. My uncle (Danny Lockard) maried Danny's daughter. Danny ran for my grandpa in the 60's (Bob Lockard)..So I had a long history with all of Danny's son's. George Kladis even won a couple races in our wankel powered midget before it got too expensive to keep together. (early 70's) Great people, and Danny has a history that I didnt even know completely. I knew about indy, and the stunt driving for Clark Gable in some movie, but I missed some of the other achievements.
Indy....I think Frey's name was on one...could be the same car (little 500)

 

I knew Danny and Bob, you need to fill these people in a little more on your family history, they were innovators, WAY before the munchin was the Badger, and I would say without a doubt the most succesful Badger was owned and maintained by the Lockard family. The Wankel wasn't around long but man was it fast AND LOUD!! Your uncle and Grandpa were great guys!!

 

Hi Roy.. We were sneeking into the pits about the same time. I was towing and working on ours when you were doing the same....I started towing it when I was 15 and we ran the last race at Trenton NJ...didnt have a license yet.... We had several BS sessions while leaning on cages around the time we had JP and Rich was in yours..I was just discussing the times Jimmy ran our stuff at Ft Wayne. He had a unique system then...both front brakes on, took off one rear so he didnt kill the motor, and over an inch of toe out. As far as that damn wankel... Love hate relationship. I learned how to totally disassemble and diagnose the (obvious problems) when I was 12... Three moving parts...it sounded easy....lol
USAC looked the other way for a few of us who they were pretty sure werent 18, I guess that was cool of them...Russ Gamester was helping his family about the same time...Doty too at some races. Guess we got away with it.