Customs Laid out, 65 ford f100 56k noway

That is coming out real nice I like the stance

 

everything works fine, and if needed is supported as well. its just a typical triangulated 4 link slightly enhanced
bagsm ounted 50% over the axle allows for more lift. the lower link bars are angled out about 4 degrees to prevent axle sway, i have about 9 degrees of seperation between them 11 would have been ideal. So i have a little more play in my pinion angle, but with nearl 18 inches of lift, im not really worried about my pinion changing 4/5 degrees

yes wide whites

whats scary?

big massive nasty holes

 

yes , i'm sure it does in your driveway


Brandon...no one , including me is trying to knock your work. your have good fabrication skills and have a great enthusiasm for this hobby and should be commended for it. but 4 people on here have expressed their concern


i'm not an engineer , i don't even play one on TV...but i have built AND wrecked a lot of stuff and i think i have learned a few things that i feel i should pass along..remember this is free advice and is worth every penny you paid for it

a lot of factors go into designing and building a proper and safe hot rod: quality of the materials used , size and strength of the materials , methods and procedures used to fabricate it , and the design. i'm sure there are more i can't think of right now. as i see it you have hit a home run on them all except the last one...your welding and fabrication looks good , the paint and finish is fine , but i feel your design is off in a couple areas. those front upper mounts for the air bags are not gonna cut it in the real world in my opinion....trust me , they will fold up and bend. i have already expressed my concern about the rear lower bag mounts on the lower suspension arms. yeah , i know , they are DOM tubing...which a lot of guys bend all the time. all that weight in the middle of that long tube is not right. maybe some real engineer on here will see this and do some calculations

agian , i'm not trying to knock you...i may be all wrong..but i wouldn't bet on it. i just think you and maybe someone else with an engineering background take a second look

 

I wondered how you got the suspension to travel that far...

 

Well said, 36-3window. Obviously, the craftsmanship and heart are where they're supposed to be. But the design/engineering look weak.

I wish someone who does chassis design/building for a living would chime in here and tell us once and for all if we're right or wrong. But, you summed up the concerns I have pretty well.

If this is a show truck that will just go on and off a trailer, it's gonna be fine. But hitting a pot hole at speed with all the body/engine/gas tank/air compressor/driver/passenger/etc... Might not work out as well.

 

listen to 36-3window and take his opinion seriously, he has a great wealth of knowledge & experience and is just trying to help.
The only other thing I would like to see would be some fishplates on the front Z.
Great looking truck otherwise.
Remember just because minitruckers have done it or are doing it, doesn't make it right.

 

Great Fab work , keep at it man ..... You will get those ears caught on something one day an its gunna fuckin hurt !

 

The rear bags....they look like they are mounted at an angle, is that what I'm seeing? But the suspension travels straight up and down, right? So when there is air in the rear bags they are going to have a little sideways stretch on em that they weren't designed for.

As it's been said, nice fab work! Interesting engineering.

 

im not pissed, and i dont think im being nocked, so i hope i dont come off like that. If i didnt want advice and critique i wouldnt post it on here.

as for the lower link bars thats the only place i feel your really wrong, other than that i can see your concerns. the lower link bars are more than strong enough. to handle the weight thats put on them.

the upper bag mounts have been ok thus far, but i probably should add some more strength to them maybe ill get some 1 inch tube and bend it in the same sort of design, but add 3 peice to each bag moutn and tie it into the frame a few more times.

the only thing that i have noticed that doesnt work 100% and havent changed, is the front moun ts for the 4 link triangulation. because they are different the pinion angle changes a more than desirable amount. the only reason i havent changed it is because the pinion is perfect at ride height.


any other concerns about parts please post so i can look into it with more detail.

well the truck doesnt go over 50, and it will never drive on a freeway. its just for shows and cruise nights, not a daily D, i daily a new caddilac. This was my first truck, and the first finished project from my shop, i wanted it to be insane. Bump stops wold be ok. If a bag blew up and i slammed the truck, it would still roll. its about 1/16 of an inch off the ground, it can still drive laid out, just not turn.

yes, i didnt even think about that, ill look into it. Ive seen a lot of guys mount their front bags off center like that too. Ill call up the company tomorrow and see what they say.

 

I just want to say how refreshing it is to see a young person on here who has some serious talent, and when older members pose some possible safety concerns about the build say they will call the manufacturer tomorrow and look into the issue rather than "fuck you". Kudos to you my man, you are an asset to this hobby.

That said, go screw yourself cause you daily a new Cadillac. (But thats just jealousy talkin')

Great work, keep it up!

 

very cool shit happening with this truck. Can't wait to see it finished.

 

The reason I mentioned bump stops is because you posted this. Now you say it's up 1/16".... Nice build it's looking sic.

 

A lot of people run bags on the lower arms, i've been running em like that in a 57 Ranchero for over a year. Its also a truck so it doesn't have a whole lot of weight over the rear end. With the bag on the lower arm 6 inches of lift from a bag can give you double the amount of lift at the axle, it all goes back to geometry class.

I do agree that the front setup needs to be redone. There's not really anything significant to hold against the force pushing up. I think a cool add on to it mite be an engine tube or cage running across from one side to the other. Take a look at some good prerunners for ideas.

 

Hey I'm not an old guy (not that wisdom is a bad thing) but I have some common sense. True it's nice that someone can actually say "hmmm I'm not a genius and know everything" But passive aggressive behavior leads to ignorance

Cadillac.... I drive a Mercedes benz as my daily.

 

With front bags the majority are independent front ends with control arms that pivot on an arc. Even with the I-beams on the front of your truck, the pivot is at the opposite side framerail which still makes the arm travel in an arc instead of straight up and down. The rear setup being pretty lateral looks like it will stress the bags a lot. Even if you just flatten out the lower mount on the arm it would be better, I think.

I've seen tons of bag setups with the lower mount on the arm, '60-'whenever Chevy trucks are suspended that way factory (with springs). It's the same style suspension Clark does on his So-What speed shop projects. As long as that lower bar is strong enough to support the weight it ought to work fine.

 

hahaha, my grandpa drives an sl550 amg, things a beast. But im more of a bmw fan, especially with the new M3.

yeah i do remember saying that, i guess i should have mention having to modify that after i built the front core support mounts and the truck was just laying on the ground, when i lifted it up it put all sorts of stress on the fenders. I had made my own thin body mounts so that it would be lower, i just put some new poly urethane body mount bushings in it and now it sits off the ground. I wanted it to sit on the ground. but oh well, one of the many stupid mistakes ive made on the build, but its my first one.



but as far as this build goes for now, im not really going to change a whole lot unless slam specialties tells me its unsafe how i have them mounted. Otherwise im going to finish it, drive it, sell it, and build a new one IFS/IRS

 

I think thats enough of a reason to build that thing beefier.
You can't depend on the new owner to never drive it on the freeway or under 50MPH,
that's definitely not a selling point.

That trucks gotta weigh almost 4000 lbs.
That's alot of weight on 1/8" tube, straight or bent.
Then to top it off with a bitchin paint job that hides any stress cracks.

The airbag/rear trailing arm suspension geometry is used,
but not really on the halfway mark of the arm,
sure it doubles its lift but it more than doubles its load.

Just make sure you (try to) break and fix that thing before you sell it,
or you'll be making ornamental fencing a long time.

TP

 

the truck doesnt go over 50 mph, its got granny gears like a SOB, not sure what gears are in it, ive never gotten it over 50.

 

There is not set speed for a safe crash. 51 dead, 50 your okay?

 

That means swapping out the engine/tranny will be the first thing the guys does.

TP

 

EEP, not very comforting. Nothing like a 5000 pound truck crashing to earth with a 1/16th inch to spare.... hint:until you have the full weight of the truck assessed and know the flex of the tires and compliance of the frame/suspension static ground clearances mean nothing. Also, most road surfaces around the world are not billiard table smooth and can see undulations of 2-3 inches on smooth roads.

I am unimpressed. I understand you are young and this is your thing but anything that is to be driven on the street should pass a scrub line test. Granted hot rodders seldom follow the rules but in this case, if you are building a show rod that lays down on the ground then it should never see the street.

I know you believe you have built this to survive the rigors of street use, but judging by the pictures I have seen here I have my doubts of it's longevity.

Oh, forgot to mention something that has come up in a few other posts. Without brakes or steering you have no control and very dangerous to yourself and those around you. To state that flat out you cannot steer raises a whole subset of problems. If enough builds like this fail for any reason and gather the attention of the nanny staters, "WE" will be forced out of business or regulated and managed like in other countries around the world. So "WE" are self policing to the best of our abilities to not bring any undue attention to ourselves.

 

Looks cool

 

A couple years ago scrub line meant when tires blown out, car would still roll.
Now it means when airbags blow out, car would still roll!
TP

 

God knows shit happens. Even the best engineered air spring system could fail so doesn't it just make sense to account for the simple things.

Travis, smack Ricky next time you see him. He called me old

 

Someone asked that someone who does this for a living chime in. ElPolacko has already chimed in with some good points.

I will try to play the devils advocate for both sides at this point, because both sides have good points.

First, the scrub line is a valid point. And El Polacko makes a good point. If you come slamming down with enough force and everything is bottomed out at 1/16" off the ground, you will still hit the ground. You said you used Slam bags, which have an internal bump stop. It compresses. You can bottom them out with a vehicle on them, and jump on the back bumper and they will compress about 1/8" or so past the 2.9" compressed height. Also coming into play here is your front crossmember and the Z'd frame. The front crossmember has a lip that can catch on something, anbd the Z has a very square edge that could do the same. I try to use round tube, heavier wall square tube with a radiused edge for crossmembers, and radius the bottom of a frame section like your Z area to avoide issues lke this.

That said, a Slam Specialties bag does not blow out the same as a Firestone or Contitech bag does. They also do not blow out for no reason. If you overload them with more pressure than they can handle (The base model has a burst pressure of over 300 PSI), or if you rub through them, they will loose air. But they will loose it at a slow rate. Unless you have a hole large enough to stick your finger in, they wont loose air rapidly enough to drop the truck instantly. I've never had a bag blowout myself, and if they are installed right you shouldn't either. But I have had people bring rides in that had bags with holes, and they drove good distances, simply filling it with air every few minutes. Definitely not the way to do it, but at least your scrub line didn't fail?

Next point is bag mounts. I still believe that the upper mounts are not strong enough. They look good, but I would have done something different. I don't doubt your welds will hold at all. The rear, however I disagree with also, but only to an extent. The gussets along the lower bar are a good idea, and you did a greta job with them. However, in order to be entirely effective, the gusset should be its tallest (come to a point) directly under the bag. This will keep your stress risers to a minimum. If you would have moved the bags forward to the where the gusset peaks I think you would have ended up with a stronger design, as well as a better design. Putting the bags that far away from the axle makes a very sprongy ride. I only like to put the bags 8-10 inches away from the axle, which provides a nice ride, but needs to be paired with a nice shock. Bilstein makes a shock designed for air ride that I use and I have been very pleased with it. Also, your upper and lower links should have been a little more equal in length, but this will not hurt you very much other than the pinion change you described already. Also your instant center looks to be in frotn of the axle so you did good there as well.

About the bags being mounted at an angle, I would have avoided this. They will lift with the link, meaning they will stay at that stressed ange throughout travel, but they will also arc front to back with the link movement. The bags can generally accept movement in one direction because they begin to pattern themselves into one range of motion they are used to. Yours will be traveling in two arcs so to speak, which is less predictable, but will not really harm the bag. What it will harm is the bushings. Pushing them out to the side is going to prematurely wear out the bushings. The bag will also be tryign to twist that bar, which will also wear on the bushings. When the bushings wear, the bars angle will change and the bag will move into a more slight twist, which then creates a new arc for it to travel in. This is still nothing that will concern the bag, and it will take some time to get there, but once the wearign starts it will progressively speed itself up due to the bag twisting more, and providing more pressure to the sides.

Thats about all I can say. I doubt you will change anythign now that the frame is painted. Most people don't chaneg anything because I say it could be done better, and I believe I have talked to you about some of these things on other sites as well.

In the real world I believe it will be fine, and just require occasional maintenance or repair. But personally I would do some things a bit differently.

 

ouch, everyone else seemed to give me advice, i feel like you just trashed the truck and me.

believe what you wish, but only time will tell.

 

thank you, i dont feel attacked. this is the kind of advice i like to hear, not that its my fault business is going to be ruined for everyone.

i didnt think about the stresses on the bushings, thats a good point. I still feel as though the front bag mounts are OK. They have been hopped up and down with the motor in the truck and everything has looked stout.

the rear upper bag mounts seem to be stout as well. we have jumped up and down on it and hopped it with the motor in the truck as well. Im just running monroe shocks in the front and back which made a crazy difference when we jumped up and down on it.

as far as doing things differently i would have too. But i have so much invested at this point its not a financially correct decision to fix everything i would like to because ill never get it back out of it.

i would have built a frame ground up 2x4 and 120 dom, used IFS/IRS, started with a better core. and not built a sheet floor for it because that was a pain in my ass.

I would have done a lot of things differently, and i still plan on switching the front to IFS after xmas because the camber change on Ibeams sucks, something i didnt think about. But, it was the first vehical i ever modified. and this far im happy with how it came out. Live and learn, was anyones first build perfect?

 

Tito.... Tito... TITO!!!! You know you wanna chime in here!

Good stuff kiddo. The flake looks bitchin. I'm not a big fan of the mini truck front mounts though....

They work fine inna little 4cyl pickem up... but that F100 has some weight on the front end!

How bout a bar that attaches to both cups and crosses over the engine?

If you're gonna get in this gig to build and sell, make sure you build em THE BEST YOU POSSIBLY CAN!

 

I don't think anyone is trashing you or being personal, a few of your response posts (which is cool) to advice has been a little condescending (that good old, thanks but go f%ck yourself, style) as well. Open your ears and don't take it personal.

I think, as I have said, that this will be a sic ride when your finished.

And yes time will tell.. even if you say you'll dump this ride to someone else. Maybe someone here.

 

Brandon,
Opinions are like assholes and everyone on here has one or is one. So here is my butthole talking. Good work i like what your doing. Keep your chin and and have fun with it.
BDiamond