Well, if you look at who that was done for, they have permission to use that and have had since the mid-1960's! It's been used on their apparel and products since then....
I think the Ausies need some one that really knows the patent laws to give them some advise. Their product looks like it is different enough that it shouldn't be effected by the billet adapter. They should even aply for a patent of their own. They obviously have a better product. I guess this CNC guy invented the carb spacer too. Who holds that patent? Plus the fact he won't give a hint to his patent name or number sounds fishy. Clark
We can't throw fuel on the fire... we're not allowed to make an adapter to do it. Does Ford know your using their lower intake? You call it "your intake", but it is Ford's really, isn't it? I'm splitting hairs, aren't I? You should be used to that. They don't even want you to photograph their cars! Honestly, just battle it out by always trying to make a better product, advertise better, sponsor the right folks, maybe? I mean damn...
Are you forgetting to take your meds... TODAY you posted this and now you are saying its resolved!!!!!!!! I think its time you took a break - from here. Damn I dont normally get pissy like this. better get more sleep tonight
I think this is a bunch of BS. Patents take quite an investment. If you are worried about an entire $2000 loss of potential sales????, then you maybe did an application yourself and that's all. There's a big difference between applying for a patent and having one granted. They came up with a very specific item with some appeal. You machined a plate with some threaded holes in it. Nice.
And the interesing thing is you can go to dearborn classics and buy an 3-2 SBF Ford intake. It is the Autolite carbs that cost the big bucks.
this bickering reminds me of a thread a while back- the poster's grand dad got a heavy handed letter from Henry Ford, telling him to back off production of auto parts, when in reality, they were making TOY car parts. Way it sounded, Ford pretty much threatened everybody else in the industry, trying to be the only game in town. This sounds like CNC's gig. If I were the producer of the competing product, I'd keep right on going until the JUDGE told me to quit, not the competitor. If I had any money I'd buy one of those cast adapters just to be an ass to CNC dude!!!!
I agree, product development is always a never ending process. Maybe they are making changes to theirs now, and that could be the reason why no one has had any updates from them....As I had already stated, I have had several conversations with him in the past(probably 6 months ago) about this issue, and as far as I knew,we had resolved the problem....And yes, I did comment to him about his product being very nice, and I think it really and truly is....as is fellow HAMB'er martinspeed and his talents and abilities,I also PM'ed him several times encouraging him and giving him additional ideas for his products.I have no problem praising others that have nice and cool products, or even not cool products when everyone else slams them!. And also when I first began to look at the HAMB as a non-member, I saw members offering to make this and make that for fellow members, such as laser cut header flanges, etc.... and thought that this was OK to do the same, and when I joined up and started doing the same,eventually some Sr. member PM'd me and told me that was not appropriate to do! Even though I didn't see the difference in what they were doing as opposed to myself, I saw, that too them, I was doing something wrong and stopped. I didn't get mad and blow up. I was new too forums and didn't know and moved forward. All conversations with X38 were very friendly and cordial, not the firestorm everyone keeps trying to make it to be. No fingerpointing or name calling, just two guys trying to hash out a potential problem privately and discreetly. Nothing more....
I just took up cnc dudes' offer to search the patent. I searched three different patent information sites, including the USPTO, (United States Patent and Trademark Office) under about six different versions of the description "carburetor to efi manifold adaptor", under patents and patents pending, and came up with nothing close. A few for things like Mikuni carbs on motorcycle engines, one for a Capri V6, the newest of the results patented in 1993. I can't think of any other terms to plug into the searches. Cnc dude, we'll need an actual number. -KK
So you DON'T have a patent yet??? Everyone keeps trying to throw water on the bullshit that you set alight in OUR campfire! A BIG difference between 'the US NOW' and 'America in the times of our forefathers' is that they were originators and competitors more than litigators and empty threateners. What a WANKER ![/B]
You are absolutely correct, a patent is a pretty sizable investment. And I was merely protecting a potential lose to it. You take that $2K and multiply that several times over the coarse of a year, and its a lot more than pocket change. I had several conversations with X38 about 6 months ago, regarding our potential problem with the similarites of our 2 products and how we could resolve any issues that could arise. No name calling or fingerpointing, just two guys trying to hash out and fix a problem,as far as I knew the issue was put to rest then(6 months ago). I was only offering a possible answer to the post earlier today asking what the status was on those adapters,and why no current info seemed to be available.....Nothing more! Everyone has tried to create a firestorm out of this!
As I stated earlier. threatening that all his products will be seized by US customs IS valittle more than private/discreet/finger-pointing. Just SHUT UP while your behind!
Allow me to paraphrase for you in the interest of clarity- "They haven't said anything on here since I came on and threatened customs seizure of their customer's products and warned them that I would litigate them out of existence" I'm guessing that you never played team sports as a chid????
still no patent number. don't you usually get some documents saying patent pending? still nothing from the dude.
Honestly...just to try to end this: You will see a LOT of arguements on here...a LOT! and by and large, by now it will have divided into two camps...those who agree and support the poster, and those who will disagree and speak against it...both camps will generally spout off, each gaining ground, and losing points, here and there, until ultimately the thread will be closed. Have you noticed that you are the only one in your "camp"? really....you mis-judged the weather...please just gracefully stop your attempts at justification, this is not going to be the cash cow you had hoped for.
He prob sent in his app for a patent after he saw that there was another product on the US market. And if he can scare the competition into not selling their Superior product long enough to get a patent approved he wins...... I can't see them granting a patent for the product he is clammering about. There are way to many upper intakes for Ford EFI, and there are so many carb adapters on the market. It looks like the carb adapters just under his carbs in the pics are just like the ones Speedway sells.......
It's pretty simple: People come on here and offer things that they truly believe in their heart will HELP OTHER HAMBers. CNC-Dude DID NOT ! then He tried to STOP someone else from doing exactly that. Oh.....and 6000 people have viewed him doing it.
wow man, i mean wow... i read this entire thread, hoping that it might have a happy ending, but aside from a few pithy comments it dont... how the fuck do you shave your face in the morning fella? some people are a piece of work, but you're the entire fuckin used tampon package there CNC guy to the OZ brothers, ship the things from a different addy and change the wording on the item description... customs has better things to do that babysit this cock nob cryin to the patent office like a 12 year old girl with a fucking skinned knee... IF the fucker has a patent that is. someone call mister gasket... i'm pretty sure they own a patent for a carb adapter what a crock of shit
Mark, you seem to be fairly level headed, so let me bring you up to speed more accurately. Almost 5 yrs. ago, I was approached by someone to develop a multi-carbed intake that would use some form of vintage carburetion. Of course the engine was a SBF, and with some thought put into the project, I happened to come across the 5.0 lower intake and began to put two and two together and eventually came up with the idea that is now the subject of this discussion. Now, whether or not the guy in Australia already had this idea or not I don't know, and at that time he probably didn't know anyone else did either. And as already mentioned by others, at some point in time, they as well thought of that concept also. The fact being, no one took that idea or concept to the next level as far as I know. So I proceeded to try and attempt patent protection for what I thought was "my" idea at that time. Well, actually about a year later. However, as already stated, it still is in the pending status. Maybe it will eventually get the green light, maybe it wont. Maybe, the guy in Australia has something working too, I don't that either. So, naturally, when I saw his adapter some time back, I obviously was concerned, because even though they are different in manufacturing processes, they still are designed to function in the same manner(Bolting to a FI lower intake). I then contacted him out of concern for what I thought was a potential problem for either parties. I didn't know that maybe he had already gotten some sort of patent on this, and that I had just wasted a big chunk of time and money. Of course already having investment on my behalf, plus the hopes of having what you think is your "own" proprietary product being in jeopardy, of course you are going to investigate and ask questions. What I discovered was that I had taken steps toward protection and he had not. So why am I the bad guy for trying to protect my idea or what I assume to be my idea. Maybe I conveyed language that is too strong earlier, but when you have the feeling that your dreams or ideas are at stake, especially something of this magnitude, im only human just like everyone else. Im just a poor boy with a lot of drive to just make an honest living. So for something like this to come along and possibly take away things you have worked very hard for, its very easy to get overzealous and get caught up in the emotion of things,maybe I jumped the gun with some of my statements. I'm sorry, but this is a very personal issue and Im sure that it might have brought out some things in my character that normally would not have been seen if this wasn't such a sensitive thing. As mentioned, I said I felt this issue was resolved months ago. Meaning, he choose to continue with his adapter, and I took other measures. Now seeing this come back to life again months later, naturally brings all that emotion back with it. If I stepped out of line or over the line, I do apologize. But again that is a sensitive button to push, and human emotion is hard to control for some.....Im moving forward as is he!
Back to your corners. Personally, I don't see how you can possibly patent what you claim to have. Perhaps you can patent the machine sequence if yours is more efficient on the CNC, but that would only apply to other CNC operators producing the same item. Even if you did manage to patent your adapter, I doubt you can patent the concept of modifying an EFI intake to take carbs. It's been done before. I don't think the number of carbs has anything to do with it. Your patent has to provide a unique method or concept - it doesn't. But, then again, I'm not a patent lawyer. I think everyone would really like to peruse your patent paperwork to see what it is you think you've patented (since it's still in "pending" status). The first time I saw the top off a Ford EFI intake, the first thing I thought of was the old Inline Autolite 4-bbl they used on Boss 302s. I also have personally seen the old TBI intake modified to accept carbs back in the '80s. So to really believe you've got an original idea there is pretty...well...arrogant and ignorant at the same time. I think that, and the way you've handled yourself here, are why folks are a little torqued at you. Nobody wants to deny anyone their livelihood. However, I don't think anyone believes that you or X38 are selling enough of these adapters to live off of. I just don't see the market myself. Assuming X38 did $2K worth of business that might have been yours (even though you acknowledge the HAMB isn't your market), you're running some mighty thin margins for $2K to make or break you. I understand you're concerned about continued losses, not just the inital $2K, but on a sub-$300 item that probably has 30-40% markup (at best), you're not making much... I think your only option for credibility at this point is to produce the patent application/paperwork. Without it, you're not gaining any traction here and you come off, well, like folks have told you you come off... Let's let this one wind down until CNC-Dude produces proof of patent protection. Name calling by either side doesn't help. Otherwise, this thread gets closed...
Both adapters are good ideas, but you can buy an aluminum 3x2 intake from Blue Thunder. I don't know how much that intake is, but even if it's like $250 bucks, that's gotta be close to what you'd have in scoring a decent EFI intake and purchasing an adapter (or 3 in CNC-dude's case). Personally I'd like my induction to NOT look like some jury-rigged bullshit, not to mention the disruption of flow with adapters has got to hurt performance. Patent stuff aside, in the .5% chance I'd ever build a SBF for a traditional application, you can bet I'll be spending my money on the real thing. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't going to be a cash cow for either of you. Wanna make money casting and machining parts? I wanna see repops of '39 Zephyr tail lights
Already done. It's street-rodder-ish with LED, but bet they can be retro-fitted with good ol' fashioned bulbs...
Ah, now this is intersesting. CNC Dude has NEVER had a conversation with me. Never! Last year he did pm me with a very sternly written (legalese) letter which inlcuded things like 1. Accusing me of "copying" his idea. 2. Claimed to have pm'd me rather than "embarass me publicly" on the HAMB. 3. Demanded I renounce any claim to have thought up this triple carb adapter idea. 4. Threats of persecusion under copywrite law. 5. Demanded that I withdraw the adapter from the market and state this publicly. And more heavy handed things along those lines. I replied to him and pointed out that I was not the person making these things, something I had already stated in my original post. I explained that the guy who does make them is not in the manifold or even car part manufacturing business etc. he's a hobbyist. I did ask for CNC Dude's company name, details, contact address and so on. Fact is Lance (who is not a HAMB member to my knowledge) is good with his hands and after buying a $10 manifold bottom at a swap meet proceeded to make an adaptor, made a pattern, had it cast, machined it etc. Now this was simply for his own use. A few other hot rodders thopught it was pretty cool and asked if he'd do one for them, so he have a few more cast - we're talking 5 or 10 or so. He's not in the position $ wise - nor does he have the time - to get these things cast in big numbers. Anyway, that's the deal. I thought I'd share this piece on the HAMB and a few pm'd me which is why I posted the maker's email addy. He has not been run over in the rush, but has delivered maybe 1/2 a dozen - I don't know. Did Lace "copy" anyone's idea? Give me a fucking break! Did I ever get CNC Dude's company details, contact numbers or address? No. I guess I'm embarassed on the HAMB now. NOT. Lance, the poor guy in the sandwich has never been in the business of manufacuring carb adapters, and probably could not care less if no more are ever seen in the US, which is a pity. He just likes to help fellow hot rodders. I suppose now we all have to be careful of what we share with the HAMB family.
The Jalopy Journal
