Tech Request: The Be-All/End-All Flatty/Transmision Combo post...

hey crew,

just revisited this post again... the old school Vs the progressive element within the hamb always makes me smile. i like the range of opinions and the range of styles and materials used in the construction of the "traditional" hot rod we all love.

one thing that kinda needles me though is the often knee jerk reaction to something worth while, the "these jap tranny's will make you puke" kinda responses. i cant see any difference between using a modern tranny and a modern mig welder. im sure the '39 loving retrophiles didnt build their hot rods with gas and spare coat hangers and im double sure that any 18yo hot rodder from 1949 would kill to have a 5spd synchro trans in any rod he made.

so just wanted to say that something modern doesnt mean its not traditional, it just depends on the execution and the application. fun is traditional, fast is traditional and good looking hot rods is traditional and a modern tranny doesnt take away from any of those.

danny

 

Amen bro...

Rat

 

When I built my dad's 53 Merc I put a toploader 4-speed behind the flathead. It was a coarse spline(big block?)tranny so it bolted up like it was made for the car. The Merc originally was an overdrive car so it had a 4:10 gear, way too many rpm's on the highway. I found an early Merc with an automatic and found they came standard with a 3:56 and an optional 3:31 rear so I snagged it and put it in. Now I can still get off the line good, burn some rubber, get decent mileage, and the motor is real cool on the highway. I helped my buddy put the s-10 5-speed in his 49 Ford, which was'nt as easy. He also had a steep rear so first gear was like a creeper gear untill he swapped in an early automatic rear. Now the car drives excellent. I prefer the toploader, they're nearly bulletproof. Good Luck!

 

Hey guys, thanks. I appreciate the input here. I'm really glad I found this board.

Gasser, I went and looked at a 59 A-B complete with top load tranny last night. I may pick that one up at $600. Only problem is my '48 shifter is on the column and I'd like to keep it that way. I know that can be easily altered, but I'm considering going with the toploader. Cant decide yet.

I'm not as concerned with keeping my rod 'traditional' as I am with simply keeping the flathead for the sake of having the flathead. I just like the look and sound of them and I always have. I think for the small amount of driving that I do with the car, I'm not going to replace the engine I like with a late model engine. (Which is what the majority of people tell me, to get rid of the flattie all together.)

It's more personal preference than sticking to tradition. Although, maybe somewhere in the back of my head tradition IS the reason for my preference. I don't know.

So, a T-5 seems to be the most popular choice with everyone I've spoken with.

Thanks gang! Again, I sincerely appreciate all the advice you've given.

 

Hi Ernie,
could you post a pic of the Jeep T-5 flange?
How would you adapt the closed shaft u-joint to the Jeep T-5 boxes shaft?
Thanks
Michael

 

Here's a pic of both the Jeep T5 (L) & the 4WD S10 T5 (R) - the S10 4WD trans appears to be slightly longer.

How to adapt it? I think a flat-plate to adapt the T5 transfer case bolt pattern to the early Ford pivot ball bolt pattern would be simple enough, then it's a matter of finding/machining a U-joint that will go between the undoubtedly fine spline output of the T5 to the driveshaft of the Ford closed driveline. The trick would be the thickness of the adapter to keep the U-joint pivot in line & in phase with the torque tube ball pivot...

I've not done it, I've not even had one in my hands, it just seems it should be do-able...I'm half-assedly looking for a Jeep T-5...

 

'Nuther question on a similar subject:
The output splines on the T5: are they the same as a 4 speed Saginaw? or a TH350 or TH400?
(Forgive me if some of the above are the same)
Mart.

 

Mart,

Not up on my Chevy bits, but I believe T5 (27 splines?) = TH350 = (most) 700-R4 = Muncie (maybe Saginaw too) - I also believe TH400 is different (30 splines?)

 

Im far from conversant on Ford torque tubes, last one I had was in 1960 and wouldnt use one again but thats my problem.
However is there a TT drive shaft that is long enough to cut and respline to match the T5? Sure would make for a simple U joint. Similar to cutting and resplining axles.

 

As far as I'm concerned if it is modern it's not traditional, depending on what year you would like to cut that off at is up to you. It may be one thing to run a jeep or chevy trans but I would think running a toyota trans would be enough to make poor Henry roll over in his grave, as far as welding when it needs to be correct for a restoration we have stick welded certain parts as well. The reason some people stick to complete tradition is because that is how the pioneers and inovators did it and that is the style and design we have grown to be in love with. I for one enjoy shifting a 3 speed and having to push it into second just to move the car before going to first. Just because I don't agree with what you want don't get all ruffled that's one of the beauty's of the HAMB differnt likes and dislikes, you shift 5 and I'll shift 3.

 

Hey gang. I'm back again, after MUCH lurking and keeping the FNG mouth shut. After FINALLY getting the flattie all rebuilt and lookin' the way I want it to, I'm running into new problems with the transmission.

Per your advice, I purchased a transmission out of an S-10. I bought the adapter from Speedway and quickly found that the bolt patterns don't line up.

Depending on who you ask, the Speedway adapter will work on a 1985 - 92 S-10 or Blazer transmission. But, another guys says "No, the '85 S-10 tranny is different than an '88".

So, I humbly come to you guys for your infinate wisdom and devine intervention.

Informatively, I have already ordered the damn open drive shaft kit too. (Wasnt previously told by them that I'd need this and never thought about it.)

What year S-10 trany is needed to adapt to the bell housing kit? Even Speedway can't say for sure. I'm hoping that you guys may know from experience.

Thanks in advance.
-Stingray

 

Blew up 13(note the #) early boxes years ago(dang street racing). put a T10 in the 1915 track roadster(unfinished) and present Flathead powered car(32 3w) has a T5.....really liked the OD. the new engine going in is a 296 with blower and a T5Z trans that I think will work out well so long as I don't run too much rear tire!

 

I drive a M20 from corvette 1969 Big block, my flaty is a french one,
4,3 liters, edmund heads, isky 3/4 race cam with isky springs, dual 94, electronic ignition, full ported bloc, steel light flywheel, 3.96 rear axle, ford 1946, all this in a model A coupe 1930.


The first gear is a little to short... but good for 1/4 mile race.
Otherwise , I can shift as fast and hard as I want and no problem...
I'm working on the blower set up... That's why I choose a 4 speed!


Of course I d'love to run an OD..... will see for a T5 later....

 

Which adapter did you buy from Speedway?

ALL S-10 tranny from 82-92 are identical bolt pattern - 93 may be different - I've never had my hands on one, but it's the only WC S10 T5 & I have been told that they all went to the Ford pattern about then - cannot confirm that part. I can confirm the '82-92 are identical where they bolt to the bellhousing...

What year did you get? Read above to see the different gear ratios available in the S10/S15/Blazer/Jimmy - two ratios. If you have a choice, I'd go for the 3.76 gearset.

 

I got the 916-28912 "Chevy Transmission to Flathead", using the early Ford clutch release shaft, fork & throw out bearing.

I got the tranny out of a '94 S-10. (Actually, a buddy who runs a garage found it). But, we were not aware that it had to be a "85 through 92" as stated by Speedway later. And he was reading it from an article in Rod & Custom. So everything was questionable.

I'm running a 4:11 rear end (in my '48 Ford) and I'd like to keep that. I just wanted a 5 speed transmission so I wasnt runnin' 3k RPMs at 55 mph.

I'm just going to have to measure the bolt patterns on the transmissions in the junk yard before I take them off. But I think I should be okay after that...provided I get the correct transmission.

I was just hoping someone had done this and remembered what year transmission they used. As far as gear ratios, I'm not as concerned with all of that (unless you think I should be).
Hell, I just want to get this thing back on the road before spring!

I'm not so much into the 'speed' thing as I am just cruising and hanging out with my friends and family.

Thanks again guys. I really appreciate all your input. This has been very frustaiting for me these past two weeks.

 

I ran a C-4 from a mid-60's Mustang in my 32. Used the flat-o-matic kit and it worked great. I, like most of you, prefer a shifter and usually stick with a 39 3 speed, but if you're tired of shifting or just want an easier ride in town or whatever the reason, the C-4 is a great trans to run behind a Flathead.

Matt

 

That's a WC tranny with excellent gear ratios...

Well, the early trannys all had 4.03 1st gear ratio - with your 4.03, that will be very low. The 3.76 ratio of the later trannys will help out a lot. The real difference is the OD - the 4.03 gearset has about a .86 OD & the 3.76 has a .72...

 

93-94 S-10s have late Ford bolt pattern
Michael

 

They're also the only WC T5s in S10s. I had heard/read/been told that ALL T5 from early 90s somewhere used Ford pattern...don't know how true that is, but I think this was right around the time Tremec bought the T5...

 

Does anyone have the dimensions for the bolt patterns for Ford & Chevy manual Transmissions.
I really need the T-5 WC/NWC, but after searching the net for a week and finding very little on any transmissions I think it would be useful to all.

Thanks

I found a scan for TransDapt, but most of the numbers are too fuzzy to read.

 

If I would have known then what I know now(when I was building jeeps for rock crawling and mud) I would have kept all those old trashed Jeep T-5 trannies that I trashed. I will be scouting around for some t-5's. I will try to keep them to the newer WC kind. If someone is lookin for one, I will keep them as inexpensive as possible. Bare with me, as I am still learning about these monsters too. They won't be fresh rebuilds, but good wrecking yard pulls, as I have a couple of friends with wrecking yards here. If you guys are lookin for jeep t-5's I have 2 buddies who might have a couple they have swapped out of their jeeps. I hope I am not hi-jacking this thread, just trying to help out.

 

Hey people got tired of hearing that 48 f1 cry so I just changed it over to a 84 s10 T5 & now gonna put in a 3:54 w/11;90s 16in slicks .. thoughts on out come People

 

I last posted to this thread in mid-'05, and reported that I liked the change from a '39 3-speed to a T-5. At that time I had a 3.25 rear end in the car, and I later changed to a 3.78(ish). Biiig difference; as far as I'm concerned the setup turned out perfectly.

The engine was a blown 292" flattie, and the T-5 was a Camaro WC with the tall first gear. Cornhusker adapter plate, 7.00-16 tires.

 

The '84 S10 will have the lower gear ratios -
1st - 4.03 2nd - 2.37 3rd - 1.49 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.86

Might be about right for your application. If after you get it all together you don't like those ratios, the later S10 T5 had the following ratios:

1st - 3.76 2nd - 2.18 3rd - 1.41 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.72

I think with the 3.54 rear gears, the 0.86 OD gear is better for a flathead. It turns it into about 3.00 gear - I think the .72 might be too much with a 3.54 rear...

YMMV

 

another stupid question, can you put a T350 behind an 8BA? is this against HAMB Law? not possible? or do you lose too much power?

 

Never seen it done - doesn't mean it can't be done. For auto conversions, most folks use the C4 & a couple places make adapters.

 

I have a 59 AB block. It has the bell housing cast into the block. Is that a problem if I want to run a T5?

 

I'd probably go to a T-5 in my F-1 in a heartbeat except for the work required on the crossmember. It need to be completely re-done in a way that maintains the structural integrity of the frame, as the rear crossmember is what keeps the frame rails sitting square. Hard to do without the cab off and some pretty clever metal work. It would be much easier with hanging pedals (so you can take the old crossmember out completely) but I'm not going that way.

 

Not at all...
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171291

 

what about the 3 speed with o/d that came out in mid 70's to 80's ford trucks? Anybody running one of these?