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Technical Cowl Steering, first time

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by wstory, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. wstory
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,715

    wstory
    Member
    from So Calif

    "SUPER MODERATOR"
    Serious question. I tried to duplicate your diagram accurately and unless I am missing something, doesn't the diff. in radii yield bump steer? bump steer diagram.jpg
     
  2. wstory
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,715

    wstory
    Member
    from So Calif

    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  3. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,778

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member




    yes you are missing something. you need to go back and read Pete's thread (I know it is 15 pages) there is where it is explained. here is a copy of the pete and jakes catalog. this may explain it for you peteandjake.jpg
     
    HEMI32 likes this.
  4. brsturges
    Joined: Oct 22, 2008
    Posts: 931

    brsturges
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Miami, FL

    Based on my limited understanding of Pete Eastwood's wonderful cowl steering explanation, I believe that it is not simply different radii that creates bumpsteer. It is intersecting arcs. In the diagram you drew, those arcs will forever be perfectly co-eccentric, which will not cause bump steer
     
  5. Morrisman
    Joined: Dec 9, 2003
    Posts: 1,602

    Morrisman
    Member
    from England

    It is the centre of the radii that matters, not the length. As long as the centres are very close the length makes no difference. That is the whole ‘core’ problem of the bump steering issue: different centres of the radii.
     
  6. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,778

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    the problem is @wstory used the wishbone to axle area as one of his arcs. this is incorrect. both pivot points are where the drag link connects. it is spelled out in the pete and jakes catalog pic above and also in Mr Eastwoods thread I referenced earlier. 15 pages
     
  7. wstory
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,715

    wstory
    Member
    from So Calif

    Well boys and girls, I've decided to do it again. I've carefully read and studied all the thoughtful input. Thank you all for your observations, opinions, cautions and criticisms of my reckless disregard for life and limb. I respect and accept that Henry did a pretty good job and messing with his geometry and physics has it's risks. However,....that's what we do, right?
    That said,...I got the car on the road with cowl steering in late 2015 with 88,000 miles on the clock. Shortly afterward came the Hemi and the Folding Top among other modifications. The car now shows 155,000 miles. That's about 67,000 with the cowl steering and the basic concept has proven sound.
    Soooo,...I am planning another cowl steering project for a Model A, the current the beneficiary of my need to mess with stuff.
    The Ford box has worked quite satisfactorily. However it requires "reversing" the gears. I understand that an early BMW box as well as a 70's Mopar box are good candidates as they do not need to "reversed" box. If anyone here has opinions about either of those pieces of hardware, I'd certainly welcome your input.
    In the meantime here's a pic of the car as it sits now.
    IMG_20190411_120905.jpg And, here's the car that'll receive the cowl steering transplant,....eventually!
    [​IMG]
    And the threat, https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/poly-begets-a-hemi-begets-a-model-a.1194565/page-16
     
    Tman, chrisp, Jet96 and 3 others like this.
  8. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    Born.... To be wild $
    Look'n Good!
     
  9. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,254

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    Are you aware that both midget and sprint car steerings can be had in power types with both adjustabe assist and feedback? A street type worm and roller steering is not a good choice for a performance car steering because as it goes away from center, it becomes floppy due to increased clearances between the worm and roller. This is by design.
    A race car steering is worm and gear so clearances are constant throughout the range.
    You haven't lived till you have driven a car with a race type power steering.
     
    Jet96 likes this.
  10. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    Ok, .... I do believe somewhere...
    I remember that a early VW bus had the rite workings...an is aluminum...
     
  11. wstory
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,715

    wstory
    Member
    from So Calif

    Thanks boys for the input, always appreciated, makes me a little smarter,...I'd like to think. :rolleyes:
    A friend has a power cowl steering unit in his 32 Roadster. For me "power" requires another system (hydraulic) and friend says it generates heat under his dash. Also, cost is a factor I must consider.
    Another friend has an early VW commercial "flat bed". I'll definitely check it out!
     
    TomT likes this.
  12. It's hard to argue the cool factor!

    Hangin' with the cool kids during the GNRS...:cool:

    20230207_163346.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
    HemiDeuce and 40ply like this.
  13. silent rick
    Joined: Nov 7, 2002
    Posts: 5,207

    silent rick
    Member

    i wonder if ryan's brother paid attention to ol pete's rant on cowl steering or the rolling bones guys for that matter.

    modelt27black4.jpg
     
    Hollywood-East, Tman and alchemy like this.
  14. The Mopar box is about the burliest OEM box you can use for this. It can be found in steel OR aluminum. It would be a good choice for the weight of that hemi
     
    thintin likes this.
  15. PotvinV8
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 408

    PotvinV8
    Member

    Everybody seems to ignore the science and lets the "cool factor" take precedent. They get away with it because most of these cars have less than 2-inches of travel, so bump steer isn't as noticeable. But it's there. Don't believe me? Draw the arcs on any of these cars using the illustration Moriarty posted and you can see for yourself.

    And just to rant, but how does one justify a BMW or VW steering box as being "traditional"? Because it's cowl steer? :rolleyes: Imagine how a thread about installing '70s BMW disc brakes on a '32 roadster would go over...
     
  16. PotvinV8
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 408

    PotvinV8
    Member

    And not to pick on the OP, I dig your roadster and the mileage you've accrued is very respectable! Good for you! But, I like the discussion and sometimes can't help but to play the devil's advocate as it were.
     
    Weedburner 40 likes this.
  17. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    So it begins...
    Again..
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2023
    PotvinV8 likes this.
  18. wstory
    Joined: Jul 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,715

    wstory
    Member
    from So Calif

    Well boys,....in spite of the input, I'm going forward with another cowl steering project. If it works as well as the previous exercise, I am a happy camper! If not and I am disappointed with the results,....I will share.
    I am currently "inclined" toward the Mopar unit, especially if I can score an aluminum unit. 'Tho the Mopar unit does not require that it be "reversed", it will require an extension to the sector shaft. A friend has done that, as well as engineering a new pitman arm attachment and I will be checking his solution in the next few weeks.
    Also,...my engine is a Baby Hemi, 1955 Dodge, 270 inches and weighs no more than a SBC.
     
  19. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    Excellent...
    There is a fella on here that cast aluminum part's, And I believe offered the cowl part's for Mopar steering..
    His handle has 4speed In it, Rochester NY
     

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