Technical LET'S TALK OVERDRIVES

Borg Warner overdrives that is. I have a T85 with the R11 overdrive that I plan on sticking in my '30 Tudor, this will be replacing a T86 without overdrive.
I have the Borg Warner manual for the overdrive and understand how it works, how to wire up the solenoid etc... But I was wondering how others do it. Something more simple than the stock set up. Who runs these? are they worth the trouble? I have a 3.73 rear in my car with 750X16 rear tires, 292 Y block, and it turns about 3000 rpm at 60mph or so.

 

I knew a guy once who by passed all the "automatic" features somehow,and controlled his using a extra head light dimmer switch on the floor.

 

I just dropped my R10 off at a local old-timer to be freshened up before I install it.
From all the user accounts I have seen, these are a great improvement for vintage cars that see many highway miles.
I plan to wire it per the book, with the exception of possibly a second kickdown switch that can activated without mashing the accelerator. This will allow a smooth 2od to 3 shift, and allow 3od-3 downshift for gradual highway slowdowns.
The factory wiring may be a little complicated, but once in place, it should provide simple, foolproof use for years to come.

 

HAMBer Cosmos49 has experience in this area -

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ive-wiring-diagram-without-kick-down.1278176/

 

I'm running two, I have them both set up the same way. Just a lockout cable to fully disengage and a push/pull switch giving relayed power to the solenoid. Pull out the switch and let off the gas and it shifts into overdrive. Turn off the switch and let off the throttle to drop out of overdrive. My '40 has caddy power and 4:11 gears no problem. My roadster I'm running tall tires and 4:33's, again no problem. I've broken the cluster gear in both cars but the overdrives have held up.

 

I've had a few set up as the factory did, and they're a pleasure to drive. Try it, you might like it.

 

An answer to one of your questions…..yes it is definitely worth it, especially if you match your rear end ratio to your peticular needs. And use it properly!





Bones

 

I've wired them up as factory and non factory, it all depends what parts you have. They are worth it, dropped my rpms by about a 1,000 in both my panel trucks.

Here's my non factory.


With gov:

 

it's been told to me that wiring it up factory style is the best way to avoid ever having it still engaged when you go into reverse. They don't survive well in reverse.

 

I've had two 1951 Fords in my life. The first one had an overdrive; the second doesn't. It will be getting one next summer. Properly set up, they're almost as good as an automatic in traffic.

 

Why not do it right ?
It only costs a Nickel more & won't break when you "forget".

 

IF the governor works, that will turn off the solenoid when under 23ish mph. The only thing you'll be missing from factory is the kick down circuit. I ran my '64 panel daily without the gov for 8 yrs, you just have to pay attention. I live with hills and it was nice to have engine braking and be able to turn on the o/d at speed without the governor, my current panel has a factory style setup. So if I turn it on leaving the neighborhood then it's no engine braking until the o/d kicks on (not stop light to stop light) or the opposite, I better hope there's a red light before I get on the freeway.

My Elco will get an o/d trans when it goes back on the road.

 

They work best if wired as per the factory instructions. If the solenoid and governor are good, the only 'oddball' part you need is the kickdown switch and those are available. You can use a standard Bosch relay in place of the factory relay.

 

I have tested the solenoid and governor and they seem ok so all I need is a switch and relay and that is easy, I was just thinking if there is an easier way or I guess a better way.

 

Ok this is one thing to think about, I will get NO engine braking until the O/D kick on. the way I think I read it is it freewheels with the O/D on and operates like a normal trans when not in O/D or do I have it backwards?

 

With the overdrive cable pushed in, the output shaft of the transmission is being driven through the one way clutch. When you let off the throttle, the one way clutch overruns and you have no engine braking. That makes for very smooth shifting from 1 - 2 and 2 - 3. You can actually shift without using the clutch.

Once the governor completes the solenoid circuit, it locks the sun gear stationary and you have a direct path to drive the output shaft through the planetary gears. You once again have engine braking. I owned 2 cars with BW overdrives and they are a joy to drive. Smooth shifting, reduced engine speed, and that full throttle kick-down for passing.

 

Like jaracer said, with the cable in and solenoid off = no engine braking. You only have engine braking when you are in o/d (cable in, solenoid on). I personally liked when I had more control of the o/d engagement myself.....but that's just me. Regular 3 spd around town, longer stretches of road or on the freeway, I could push the cable in, hit the toggle switch, back off the throttle and "clunk" I'm in o/d (at any speed). Way more arms flailing around the cab doing everything then the stock setup though.

 

Thanks for the info

 

This is where I thought I would be with this also, and it sounds like how I would end up using it. to tell the truth, I don't do much highway driving with this car. but on the other hand that easy shifting jaracer was talking about sounds good too.

 

I've been driving mine hotwired with just a on off switch and a cable in my Model A for 30,000 MI

 

Exactly my choice too! I've run several, R10 and R11. It's nice to use the downshift in advance of a long grade or need to pass without stomping it to the floor.

 

The T85/T89 overdrives are one of the best street transmissions ever. Wire it up per Shop Manual, but put the kickdown button on the shift lever. That will allow a part throttle downshift at will.

jack vines

 

The swit

Boy, you need to talk to my buddy....that's nearly exactly what he runs behind his Y-block. Unfortunately, he's not on here.
But to answer your question....yes, it's worth the effort.

 

THAT is exactly what I was thinking to do!

 

I'm planning to do the same with my R10 behind an 8BA. Column shift with a button on the end of the knob to DS.

 

There's a ton of information out there about the BW overdrives. I've been reading about it to decide how I want to use mine.

https://vintageautogarage.com/borg-warner-overdrive/

https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogspot.com/2018/12/borg-warner-r-10-overdrive-wiring.html

There is another unique thing about the OD circuit. From what I've read, the wiring is also connected to the coil. When under load, to get out of overdrive, it stops the coil for a very brief time to take the load off the transmission so it can downshift. At least I think that's how I read it...

 

Yes, you need some torque freedom to let the OD solenoid pull the pawl out and free the sun gear. The ignition is only shorted for an instant, you really do not feel it.

 

Might be a good idea to put a switch on the shifter or dash, that stock kick down switch is kind of an odd duck. It used to be available through Cole -Hesrse, but the last time I checked I did not see it in their catalog!
If you set it up to by pass the stock limiters, be sure to not really drive it hard in first gear. The overdrive was never built to with stand the torque of first gear.




Bones



Bones

 

These guys have them...but the aftermarket parts of these are pretty pricey...

http://www.fifthaveinternetgarage.com/index.php

https://vintageautogarage.com/

 

My buddy in high school had a nice 55 Ford Fairlane with a 272, 2bbl, and overdrive. He would wind it up to over 30 mph in 1st, let up and let it shift into OD. Then he would wind it up until it wouldn't go any faster, then push the gas pedal to get it to downshift. He thought that was cool. The transmission finally gave up the ghost, but only because it had run out of lube. He wasn't real good at maintenance.