Technical 1957 Chevrolet rocker, floors, frame and doors... what first??

Hey guys!

Finished my International project I was asking about in the other forum.... now onto my chevy build.

Heres the backstory: bought two 1957 Chevy 4 doors. 1 car is pooched from the rockers down (including frame) but the rest is good. The other car is pooched all over, but came with good fenders, hood, interior parts, trunk and the frame is good.

To make this thing into a street beater I need to swap frame, install new rockers, new floor and do the 4 door conversion.

The question Im trying to think through, is what to do first? Should I replace the rockers to give it strength, but leave the 4 door pillar unattached, then swap frames, then floor? Or should I swap frames, floor, new rockers, then conversion.

My concern is the lack of structure due to rust... I feel like the second option is easier, but figured Id ask those who have done it!

Thanks

Duncan

 

4 doors are still pretty common and affordable, I would just look for a nicer body

 

While you're definitely right in the lower 48, unfortunately where I am in Canada, everything is either rusted in to dirt, or you gotta do the work! Besides importing something there isn't much better in my price range.

Currently I have $2600 invested in the cars, $500 in rockers and $1000 in a new floor. So $4100 in Canadian Pesos (about 3K us), there isnt anything available here under 25K.

 

Having never done this before, I’d probably start at the frame. Square/straighten it up. Then put the body on it. I’d think if you start with a crooked, etc frame and make thing fit to it, it wouldn’t fit on a proper frame.

 

Here’s mine
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/finally-starting-on-the-wife’s-56.1135206/
I’d start with the best frame. Verify it’s square. Purchase new body mounts.
Set best body on the chassis. You can brace things or align as you go.
I didnt brace this one. Gaps aren’t great to begin with. The cowl sprung forward but was repositioned easily.
I’ll probably brace that for the other side.
I fit the inner rocker to the cowl and the floor braces. Replaced the front floor brace and rebuilt the rear. Screwed the inner rocker in place, clamped the outer rocker, hung the doors and got the gaps as good as GM doors would fit. Removed the outer rocker to weld the inner. Then welded the outer.
Tackled the floor after the inner and outer rockers and floor braces were fit and welded.
There are one piece floors with braces and inner rockers welded as a unit available.
I’ve seen those installed after bracing the car and removing the old floor. Lifting up the body, set new floor assembly on the chassis, place body back on the chassis then fit doors and begin welding.

 

That sounds like a pretty good way to go. I have a one piece floor and new rockers.

So I will swap frames, and get the body sqaured away on the best frame. Then I will begin the 2 door conversion (remove the B pillar). Install new rockers using 2 door doors to set gaps, then finally will do the floor.

 

without photos any response is just a guess. may as well use a Ouija Board to decide.

 

There are a few install videos online for the one piece floors.
The B pillar really doesn’t hold up much. A piece of square tubing welded from the cowl to the qtr panel will help stiffen the body during lifting with the rockers removed

 

What do you mean? I figure theres got to be a ton of guys that have done rockers and floors on these cars. Just need to know which to do first. Should get some pics going anyways, maybe start a build thread!

 

Te read Anthony’s post about squaring up the frame first.

 

Make sure all the paperwork is in order.

 

This is my '57 Chevy build, although my thread really only documents the 2 door sedan conversion and not much of the rust repairs.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/57-chevy-2-door-conversion-pics-build-thread.1199065/

My question to you is, is the crappy frame still square at the body mounts? Like, I don't care if it's full of rot holes but is it broken, sagged, could you put the car on jack stands held up by the frame and not have it turn into a taco?

Because if there's enough of the original frame that it's still held it's original dimensions, then I would not pull the body off of that frame until the underside work is done.

I put my inner rockers in place first, leaving what was left of my old outer rockers intact as a good reference point. There really wasn't much to weld the inner rockers to, but I got them positioned properly and also in a spot where the doors all closed well (all of the welding on the floors and rockers, as well as your eventual frame swap, need to be done before you even start anything on the 2 door sedan conversion).

Once I had inner rockers in place, I cut out sections of the floor above each of the bad floor supports, one at a time, and I put the floor supports in through the holes I cut. It's way easier than doing it from underneath and you get cleaner welds that way. Once the support was lined up nice and welded to the inner rocker I made new floor pan patch panels to go on top, replicating the factory spot welds by drilling holes in the floor above the supports and then welding the supports to the floors through those holes.

Once I had all of the supports in, I fixed the rest of the floor pan issues.

Then I fixed as much of the outer rockers as I could, tying it all back together solidly, never having removed the original doors.

At this point in the job is where I would take your body off and swap it onto the good frame. My frame was good so I didn't have to, but I think trying to pull the body off when it's all rusty and loose, it's going to lose it's shape unless you spend a ton of time bracing it up, and I feel like that is time you could have spent actually fixing stuff.

Some people like to do all the floors and inner rockers and stuff with the body off of the frame, for better access. And it's true it's much easier to access, but I like to make it square and solid on the frame, so I know it'll fit together when I'm done.

After you get all that stuff done, the 2 door sedan swap stuff is pretty easy. I can help if you have questions once you get that far. I've got extra B pillars and doors if you need some, although getting them to Canada might be cost-prohibitive.

 

Have you been watching DD Speed Shop on youtube?

 

Also, no matter what order you do things in, before you start the 2 door conversion, you need to have the old 4 door doors in place, lined up with good gaps, and then get the front fenders bolted onto the car with a nice gap between them and the front doors. Those front fender gaps are a crucial reference point once you start fitting up 2 door sedan doors. Without that, your only reference is the roof and the rockers, which really isn't enough.

 

I'm not the OP but I've watched that guy's stuff. I feel like some of his stuff is kinda hacked. It's not the way I do it, and those videos are probably not what I would use as a reference.

Although, I will give the guy credit, the stuff he's starting with is basically garbage, and he is building something out of it, which that's pretty cool, and certainly entertaining, even if the finished product leaves some things to be desired. Certainly a better outcome than those cars becoming parts cars, or scrapped.

 

I agree with Squablow, just did my 55, first install inner rockers, connected to floor braces that were complete, should be 2 out of the 4. Next tacked up my floor patches( did not buy complete floor because of price and could not get half floors), then added rockers and adjusted till the gap was close. Turned out good.

 

10-4! Fortunately I am in Canada. They really only care about the vin tag. So long as that’s not stolen you are good to go. Definitely avoids the whole “ship of Theseus” conundrum.

Sqaudblow - you have provided me a wealth of information. Precisely what I was looking for. I believe the car I’m using for parts was driven into a gravel yard and left. So the frame is good. The car I’m building must have been forked around a yard, and driven but also somewhat taken care of. The frame on it seems straight, but it has a few problem areas - namely where it looks the main frame rails are dented under and the horns have some damage from towing. It’s also filled with mud, so I imagine there’s more rust inside than out. Maybe I’ll do the rockers, then the one piece floor, and then when that’s all done I’ll swap frames!

As for DD speed shop, yea that guy is a beaut. I do get what guys are saying about it not being the right way - but like I posted previously a multitude of factors have caused these cars to skyrocket In price. He’s building stuff and driving it, and that rocks. Tough to find anything here that isn’t a redic price hence the two farm cars into one plan.

 

Weld in body braces.
Check new frame for square
Move body to new frame with new mounts. Realign panels, doors etc. The body may be twisted on the old frame. Get it square on new frame that's been checked

Now your rockers, doors, floors, quarters are going on a straight car.

PS - none of the new panels will fall into place, they all need some "adjusting"

 

If the car with the bad frame was lifted with a forklift and there's dents on the underside of the rails, that frame may not be square, and then I'm not sure if I'd rebuild the rockers and floors on that frame. What we really need is a good assessment of the squareness of that frame. That'll really be the determining factor.

Even here in Wisconsin, 4 door Tri-5's aren't cheap anymore. The price comparison from even 5 years ago is kinda shocking, they just aren't as common as they once were, and the prices reflect that. Sometimes you've gotta just work with what you can find. It can be a lot more work, but it's often very satisfying to save something that would otherwise have been scrap.

 

Does your new 1 piece floor include the inner rockers and floor bracing, and does it include rear wheel tubs and trunk floor? Can your floor pan be bolted to the frame? Some do, some don't. Makes a big difference on how I would start. I can't see what you bought from here.

How does the doors (all 4) open and close on the body you intend to use? How does the front fenders match up?

If the doors (all 4) open and close like crap, and the fender to door gap is all over the place, your project just got really hard. If the frame that body is sitting on isn't straight and square, its even a bigger project. The frame needs to be straight, and then the body needs to be straight before the body can be braced.

If the doors open and close decently, and the door to fender gap is close, top to bottom on both sides, the 1st thing to do is brace the crap out of the inside. Brace it side to side, front to back, and with an X brace crossways, as close to the floor as you can. Electrical conduit works and is pretty cheap.

Won't go any farther until I know what your floor pan looks like.

 

I have a 57 Hardtop that I have a new floor for and have similar questions in my mind. A guy told me one time to check the door gaps and if everything was good..........tack weld the doors shut. Maybe a little x bracing inside as well. Then replace inner and outer rocker panels one side at a time. Then lift the body and cut the floor out ........probably from below (ouch). Set the new floor on the frame and lower the body and mark where you need to cut to make the floor fit the rocker panels correctly.

Said that was a good (the best?) way to keep a body aligned.

I saw pictures of a 57 for sale one time where the body had sagged at the door and there was a really bad misalignment........so I have that picture in my mind every time I think about floor replacement.

 

For almost any construction, you need to start with a good foundation (frame) and build up from there. Building on anything else will create problems that plague the job to its end.

 

I’m not welding doors shut.
If they fit well before you cut it, they’ll fill well after you start building
I’ll align em as best as possible before cutting.
If it moves during the rebuild, I’ll move em back
I had a rocker gap tighten up at the rear door while welding the floor. A simple clamp with chain and leverage bar moved it back, then I finished welding it to the dog leg.
I like the doors to open and shut as I weld.
Heat from welding moves panels no matter how well the are clamped or screwed.
For instance, if you’re welding a qtr and the door gap is kinda tight, start welding at the door jamb and work to the rear. The door gap will open up slightly. Reverse that to close a wide gap.

 

I'm always intrigued by these threads because a 57 Bel Air is on my bucket list of cars, and I want to build one so customized that it would be a waste to start with a 2 door hardtop when I could start with a 4 door sedan and have only negligibly more work.

One of the best aspects of the Tri-5 Chevy is that you can find all of these parts for these cars, including brand new 1 piece floor pans. The initial buy-in is usually more than other makes and years, but if you're doing a complete restoration, it is much cheaper to replace than to restore individual components.

 

I'm just talking about tack welds and maybe a bar front to back inside thats tack welded. It isn't that hard to grind them off when done, and I thought it was a pretty ingenuous way to keep the whole body ridgid .....especially a convertible. A door that functions fine may not close after the support under it is cut away and minor sag occurs. I'm pretty sure if the door is tacked in place, things will be pretty close to original when the tack welds are ground away. Its no different than adding a brace, but everyone has their own preference.

 

If it works it works.
There’s more than one correct answer. But I like the doors opening as I build.
I can make improvements as I go
But the car is always mounted on its suspension for me.
Eliminates surprises when done

 

The other reason:
I’ve built a tons of side hit cars. Never welded doors. Replaced and built entire floors.
Now I have tacked a small strip to a door and used clecos to hold the door. This was to fit doors while assembling a new body from pieces. Didn’t have any structure to mount hinges as the body was assembled outside in.
There’s many ways to get to the same end.

 

If you have a hardtop, and you weld the doors shut, how do you get in side the car to do nearly anything? Like tack in an X brace, or even to weld the inner rockers on to the body shell?

I'm with Anthony, I want the door hung and be able to open and close them as I work, solves a lot of problems for me, but I guess if the guy has figured out a way to get the rockers welded on with the doors welded in place, good for him. I'm not that smart.

 

Not proud of the work, but it works. Don’t take it off the frame unless it’s not sitting on all original dounuts. Been working in yard between rains, fixed floor braces that were bad. Start with inner rocker.

 

This is another good point that I'd add to my own advice. All of the welding work I did on my '57 build, I did with the car's weight on it's wheels. I made wooden cribbing blocks to go under each wheel, although if you were using jack stands under the rearend and on the A-arms somehow I think that would be just as good. But stands on the frame, placed too far inboard or outboard of the axles can make the weight of the car shift the body around, especially once you start cutting away pieces to replace them.