You can use the A axle but if your looking for parts why not go for the better stuff. That's why I said start with the rear to give you more time. Phaeton sold this spring. Guy couldn't believe it fired right up and was drivable. You might want to rethink the 46 brakes, depending on their condition it might be cheaper.
Ryan, you are going to need the cross shafts for the mechanical brakes and e-brake too. Are they there or missing? I won't drive a car without a functioning e-brake. You will need a e-brake handle for that as well
I'm going to try and walk you thru the change out of the A dizzy to a B dizzy. I am trying to be comprehensive and nothing to insult you, I know you say you are a Model A virgin, so I took things real rudimentary...OK You will need to purchase a ignition switch and remove the pop-out switch. The coil is 'hot' all the time, the pop-out is making the ground circuit. That is how the new ignition switch wires. You can get one from the Model A parts houses like Burt's, Snyder's, Mikes, Bratton's or many others. I am adding that the points need to be gapped to .018-.022 The A dizzy has a rod and a lever to change the ignition timing from the driver position. The lever is positioned all the way clockwise or 'up' to start the engine. This is 'retarded' ignition timing. 'This is also the position that the distributor is static timed in. The lever and rods actually rotate the plate that the points are mounted on and change them in relation to the lobe on the cam that opens the breaker points.. I suggest that you look the stock A dizzy over with the cap off to observe. Immediately after the engine starts, the lever is moved counter clockwise or 'down' to advance the timing. The lever is to be manipulated while driving based on operating conditions....who does that? Henry changed the set up for '32 for that reason and eliminated the lever. The dizzy got changed and mechanical advance added to the dizzy. The timing cover got changed (for the most part) for the B because the B dizzy needs to be static timed with the ignition timing advanced. The centrifugal advance in the B dizzy is 12 to 15 degrees crank advance. You want more total advance, around 23 degrees or so, so you have to give the B dizzy around 10 degrees initial advance. The static timing is achieved by finding TDC compression. That is aided with a removeable timing pin that is in the cam gear cover on the front. If you remove the sparkplugs for this operation, it is going to make it a lot easier to rotate the engine It threads out and is turned end to end. With pressure on the pin, the engine is rotated using the crank inserted thru the crank cover hole in the bottom of the radiator shell. Geez, I need to clean that some...you see, the timing pin is a guaranteed installed lube leak. The pin drops into a detent, drilled in the cam gear to indicate TDC on number one cylinder. Now that needs to be TDC COMPRESSION to static time. This detent will come up twice with one rotation of the engine, once at TDC Exhaust and once at TDC Compression. The distributor rotor should be pointing at #1 terminal on TDC Compression Got to go do Sunday things....back later to resume
Verify that the rotor is pointing to the #1 terminal If is pointing roughly here, you are on number one TDC compression If it is pointing here, You are on TDC Exhaust You need to turn the engine over until you get on TDC Compression. Reference the position of the rotor so you can duplicate its placement in the B distributor. You can now loosen the locking nut and set screw that holds the model A dizzy in place, unhook and remove the timing rod. Remove the ignition pop out and pull the dizzy. It may be rusted in place so you may need to soak with penetration oil and try again. There is a slotted drive rod that connects the dizzy to the camshaft drive. It may or may not come with the distributor when you remove it. either way, it needs to be reused with the B dizzy. The slot is a little offset and so is the tab on the distributor. When you install the B distributor they need to line up. You need to position the point breaker plate in roughly the middle of its travel prior to installing it. The beaker plate has limited rotation and this will allow you to advance or retard the timing without rotating the cam after everything is re-assembled. Disregard the orientation of the rotor when the distributor drops in because you can loosen the cam locking screw and turn the rotor to roughly where it was in the A dizzy so... remove the rotor and loosen the distributor cam locking screw until cam can be turned and placed in the position that it was in the A dizzy. I will edit the first posting, But you need to remove your ignition pop out and purchase and install an ignition switch and wire lead to the B distributor. The B distributor doesn't use the pop out ignition switch. Connect a continuity tester between the breaker point arm and an engine ground. I use the diode tester on my multimeter and the audible setting is helpful. Turn cam in counter clockwise direction until the breaker points are open and the continuity tester turns off, then slowly turn the cam back in a clockwise direction until the points just close and the continuity tester turns on . I use a NuRex tool that you can purchase from any of the Model A parts houses like Bert's, Snyder's, Brattons etc but did it for a long time without it. It just makes it easier, especially moving the cam minute amounts to dial in the timing. Next snug the cam by tightening the cam locking screw, but don't lock it. You need to add timing advance from this position by rotating the cam in the direction of rotation or Counter Clockwise. Tighten the cam screw being careful not to move cam position, while tightening. It make several attempts. You can now reassemble everything and double check like you have put the timing pin back in...and the rotor isn't on the bench. I believe that is it and hope that the process is understandable I fiddle with the timing, but time it where the engine runs the best. Two advanced of timing will make the engine fight to start....like trying to start it with the A spark lever advanced. Good luck
E-brake cross shaft is there. And the brake peddle. That’s about it. I won’t drive a car without good brakes and suspension. That’s the first thing I usually go through on my jalopies before they go on the road. Just posted in the wanted classifieds. Maybe someone doing juice brakes with a complete takeoff A setup will stumble along it.
Timing… that’s just great Larry. B dizzy in an A block. This isn’t something that’s readily available knowledge out there, so you’ve done me and the banger community a huge service. Thank you. Your edits were perfect. My chassis is missing the pop out, so I’m already “ahead” there. And I’ll order the Nu-Rex tools. They seem like they’ll make life easier when it’s time to put this distributor into its new home. Again, many thanks, friend.
Tribal Knowledge....isn't unless you share it You got a 'modern' cap with your dizzy. It is easier to time with the original A cap on it and use that set up initially. Good luck with 7-12's that turn into 14's... I had pulled just about 2 months of those and got home about 2 AM and...you know, just flopped on the couch getting up enough energy to go to bed then a knock on the front door I am thinking "who to heck could that be at this hour of the morning"???? opened the door and it was my ass just dragging itself in......
[QUOTE="RyanAK, I won’t drive a car without good brakes and suspension. That’s the first thing I usually go through on my jalopies before they go on the road.” Just posted in the wanted classifieds. Maybe someone doing juice brakes with a complete takeoff A setup will stumble along it.[/QUOTE] - So, I understand the mindset that embraces going back to yesterday and the simple “way things were back in the day” Today is not that world. Have you driven a car with mechanical brakes? Even well adjusted early hydraulic’s are about a quarter of the stopping power of nearly every car on the road now. I routinely scan the road ahead and to the sides to determine where I am going to go if I have to avoid some nitwit who hammers their brakes in front of me. You have young kids that presumably are going to ride along but you are contemplating installing an even weaker set of brakes than what you have now (now, everyone pile on the heretic)
Completely understand your point of view and it's totally valid. And something I've considered and not without due weight. Where I live and where this car will travel likely isn't like where a lot of everyone lives. Traffic here is... different. Most two lanes are 45mph, some 'major' roads are 55. My commute to and from work takes me on many back roads that aren't even painted with lines. "Traffic" consists of an Amish buggy and a milk truck at a crossroads or school bus traffic in the afternoons where there may be 7 or 8 cars lined up behind. Things can get thick on occasion, true. And life certainly isn't without risks. I'm aware that I'm stepping away from "safest" to something less so. My anticipated jaunts in this jalopy are backroads and the seemingly endless network of State Forest roads in the mountains. Thanks for taking the time to consider my family's well being. It's appreciated. Truly.
Hey, Ryan; It looks like you'll end up w/a fairly lightweight car. More than a few yrs ago, in one of the streetrod mags - SR? - was an article describing hopping-up mechanical brakes. The jist of the story was: 1st make sure *everything* is in *top* condition. Then the writer/subject had found a brake-lining material that was rather "aggressive" on drums but worked like gangbusters at low temps(unlike the racing/hi-po stuff that needs to be hot), which was then riveted onto the old shoes. Works on both the internal-expanding & external-contracting styles. So to help things along, he mounted up a very small(7" dia?) vac-booster - which was hidden from view, but which nicely amplified the braking power. Yah, I realize that only so much can be done, but it's a lot like going from manual drum -> power drums. Which means that at the minimum, you'll get everything out of the system that it can give, w/less pedal-pressure input from you. Downside is if a lot of driving - or at least braking - is done, drums get used up more quickly. Probably not for the rare Bugatti drums if used as a daily... . Anyways, in Mpls, there is(or was - haven't been there for awhile, but if you want, I'll find the name & check for you) a very good shop that can do the brakeshoe-lining if you can't find it local. Their prices were really decent, & the guys were helpful. Until I or someone else can find that article, I don't know the exact material the lining was made from. FWIW. Marcus...
the cast drums on rear and the 32 front brakes are a huge upgrade, 20 mph my coupe stops as quick as all my other appliances in the driveway. Take time and adjust brakes correctly and keep them taken care of and you will get alot of life and good stops out of it.
Snag a pair of Les Andrew’s A Shop Manuals. He’ll walk you through the whole brakes routine. AND Ted’s Floaters, front and rear. Iron drums definitely. Good luck!
Making a deal on a '28/'29 Phaeton body. Still figuring out the brakes situation. Lovejoy shocks here that might work with some foolin' around... but likely were a bust. Working 13 hour shifts, 7 days a week. Bluuurrrrr.....
Always appreciate your input Marcus. Thanks, friend! This seems to be the way I'm heading. 32s front or all around, and certainly cast. Just need to see what goes into getting to 32 brakes. I have Les's first manual, and I think it covers all the mechanicals, including brakes. I've heard of floaters for years, but haven't looked into them yet... not familiar with early Ford brakes yet to even know what the floaters improve, though I'm sure it'll be apparent once I'm into them.
@RyanAK Flathead Ted’s “Floaters” equalize the pressure applied to both shoes. Most suppliers stock them.
It's kinda a long ways from you, but if the 28/29 phaeton deal doesn't pan out, at the TCRoadsters swap today, I came across a '19 Overland(Willys) phaeton body(Looks very much like a dodge, but slightly wider). ~ $300. Complete tub, nothing else, rusty, & has some rot. All 4 doors are there. If you want, I'll pm you the guys' ph#. Marcus...
Sure looks like fun. I have not read this entire thread word for word yet but did you get a title with the chassis? Don't know what PA is like but some states are getting really strict about proper titles.
No title, but PA does have a path forward on that front. I bagged work today and let Spencer play hookie. We headed south to Zach Suhr’s where Spence got a little overwhelmed with prewar Fords. He did, however, have his first Gow experience. If you know… then you know. We also picked up a stash of brake parts from Ken (62Pan) and Dave (Carter). Thanks to you both h so much. Im getting organized. I know I still need rods and ‘32/‘34 perches, but we’re getting there!
Got it. It seems like a well regarded upgrade. Right now the path is ‘32 fronts, A rears with cast drums, floaters all around, and adjusted as they should be. Looks like I got the deal made with a huge assist from Dan (Haven Hills) here on the HAMB. He’ll have the body hopefully this weekend and once I’m through with 84 hour weeks we’ll rendezvous in Cleveland and do some trading. I think I have the ever fetching Samantha convinced that an A phaeton body won’t take up TOO much room in our spare shed for the winter while we get some things done on it. Who knows how to rivet? And anyone have a worn out stock ‘28/‘29 Phaeton interior they’re pulling out of a stocker to ‘upgrade’?
When Zach gets done putting that car right, it will be magnificent. Truly. I've been given a mandatory "fatigue" day tomorrow. Apparently I look like crap from the sustained overtime. I'll be pulling the closed car cowl off the chassis, finally getting the water pump back in, and finishing the ignition wiring. Hopefully getting things set for the work I hope to accomplish in November.
There are very few square head bolts/nuts used on a model A ford from the factory. Almost exclusively hex head. Square stuff is more of a 20's thing.
So I told Hitchhiker Matt in a text that I was going to dump all these brake parts on the conference table at work and start going through them. Well... ok. Not the conference table. But I've designated a corner of my office for "mental health" since even after the 7-12s schedule we'll be on 60-70 hour weeks until March when we go back to 7-12s. "Mental Health" = small, portable supe job projects. Build brakes, go through a 97, etc.
Today I had my “fatigue” day, and Spencer and I dove into our projects. I didn’t get as far as I had hoped… I need to remember that things take a bit longer when working with an apprentice. But we did get the rebuilt water pump in and the cracked water neck replaced with an original part. Spencer does NOT like the smell or the feel of Kroil on his hands. Dad has made note. Not too bad inside. This is my first look of any sort inside the engine. In other news, our friend Dan from Haven Hills of The Yard Art Roadster fame put eyes on the Phaeton body I was making a deal for. Looks like we’re still looking for a 4-seat open car body for Spencer’s soup job, folks.
Well… I hadn’t thought about going outside of Ford. I’m really not in a position skill- or time-wise to take on something that’s going to require a huge amount of fabrication. Any thoughts on what something like this would take, Marcus?
So on the 32 brake differences in parts to need. The brake actuator rods that go through the kingpins are longer and one of the most notable differences other than the obvious shoe and spring kits etc. The adjusters didn't change, the floater kits that are available for the A equalizer wedge fit without any issue, they are a nice upgrade. B is 7.75" and the A is 7.25" Don't forget to arc the shoes or sand them in, I normally take some self adhesive sandpaper and stick inside the drum to fit the shoes to the drums 100%, this step adds a ton of extra stopping power and reduces the need for adjustments frequently. While cleaning and rebuilding, check the shoe rollers for any flat spots or wear, these points are crucial in function, any flat spot or over wear will decrease efficiency. Also, the adjusters, if they are stupid tight, spray some penetrating oil in the holes were the shoe adjuster pins go in, and screw that adjuster bolt all the way in, it should push the cover out, at that point, I clean up the inside of the adjuster and the pin, also wire brush the threads and get it moving in the threads with ease. This helps a crap ton on adjusting the brakes when the time comes. Also, Paul Shinn on youtube has a good video showing how to adjust brakes, worth the watch, I do mine pretty close to his way.
The Jalopy Journal
