Now here's something I can chime in on. I did a SBM (360) swap into my '51 Plymouth Cranbrook, same car essentials. Here's what I did and a few key takeaways; 1951 Plymouth V8 swap! Engine and trans mounts: Butch’s Cool Stuff This kit works fantastic and includes the engine and transmission mounts, and detailed instructions on placement. I recommend welding in only with the engine and transmission intended; it is a tight enough fit between those frame rails that an inch of mistake could mean a whole ton of extra work. Don’t trust the measurements/math, physically get in there and weld with your engine and trans hanging in place. Tack it, pull it, finish the welds. https://butchscoolstuff.com/42-52-p...hrysler-engine-transmission-mount-kit-2188cp/ Disc Brakes: Scarebird You’ll need to find/fab some stuff, see the instructions. It’s not hard, but it will be tedious if you’re not good at sourcing parts. https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=64 Steering column u-joints: Borgeson is best! You will need to measure your steering column shafts and find an appropriate joint. I recommend getting a weld on style with a removable double D shaft in between. That way, you can always get it apart instead of welding everything. I took this opportunity to drop my steering column several inches on the floor, straightening it as well. The way the stock shaft brings the steering wheel up at an angle always infuriated me. Also, get a chrome 2 inch steering wheel column drop from eBay. They have one that includes several rings to fit multiple sizes of shaft and it fits amazing. Plan on having a trial finding a proper shaft bearing collar that will firewall-mount. USE A BUSHING (nylon works best) or you’ll have hot exhaust draft coming up your column. https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/steering-u-joints Look for something like this to hold your column in the new place on the firewall: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Steering-S...dQAAOSwNdRbKrSj:sc:USPSFirstClass!96150!US!-1 Drop Spindles: Fatman You’ll need the disc brake kit to use these. Makes your ride height a lot less “offload” LOL. http://www.fatmanfab.com/product/1935-1956-plymouth-dropped-uprights Headers: Ebay Motors cheap-o stainless for Dodge Dakota Do NOT use their garbage hardware. Buy some PROPER header studs and such from a reputable brand!! Otherwise, these are the tightest, simplest solution for that Mopar V8 and they look great. I’ve had them 2 years, no issues. Thick flange they use is nice for budget headers!! The drop-down-straight versions will NOT fit this kit properly. Also… yes you CAN use stock exhaust logs but you’ll likely have to redo steering column anyway so… why use crack-prone cast iron? https://www.ebay.com/itm/STAINLESS-...-RAM-DURANGO-DAKOTA-5-2L-5-9L-V8/282156098776 Radiator: Northern You’ll need to figure out hope routing and such. The BEST radiator I’ve found for tight fit and awesome cooling is the Northern circle track units. I run a 160 thermostat and fan starts at 180… and the fan rarely comes on. It’s a good piece. You WILL need to plan your hoses carefully. Do NOT use the garbage “universal” polished ribbed hoses unless you have to! And if you do, BUY GOOD CLAMPS for the love of god! https://www.ebay.com/itm/Northern-2...675045?hash=item4cf2f54625:g:qXMAAOSwEZdaAzof Brake pedal/bracket: Ebay hot rod parts You’ll need to trim it, but this sucker is STURDY. Bolt the support bracket (at the end) to the underside lip of your dash for maximum stability. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-...043533?hash=item58c3f9b34d:g:DvYAAOSwv0tVeexE Master Cylinder: Ebay Motors GM style PLEASE DO NOT skimp on brakes!! Power master, Disc/Drum, with DUAL reservoir. I’ve blown a reservoir on the road in my ’51 and it’s SCARY. Brakes are the MOST IMPORTANT THING ON YOUR CAR. Also, you NEED a proportioning valve because safety matters! https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrome-GM-...756603?hash=item543930dd7b:g:eZEAAOSwPCVX4D2R Preparation: -Hammer your firewall back 1.5-2” behind the whole motor area, or you’ll have almost no clearance on the front end. You WILL need that room. I have .75” between my water pump nuts and my radiator, boys. Oops! -Plan on modifying your front radiator support. You’ll need to customize your hood latch mount as well (I recommend a crossbar that’s sturdy so you can slant your radiator where the vertical support once was). -You’ll be cutting your steering column, which is good as you can realign it based on your personal driving position (stock wheel placement is mediocre). Imagine a straight, flush, properly aimed wheel! LOL it’s great and worth the work. -REBUILD YOUR FRONT END! Since you’ll be mostly scrapping the front end when you go disc, replace all the old rubbers and ball joints. Don’t be cheap, it will save your life! That heavy V8 NEEDS the new rubbers! -Do NOT think this is a simple operation. Plymouths have little room to spare. See I cut out my inner fenders for header cooling and overall clearance. You may not do the same, but it’ll be close. -Test fit everything before final welding and assembly! I didn’t measure enough and had to go back on some stuff. It’s not worth the pain of grinding welds, guys. Trust me.
Info published by Summit shows cyl wall wear is 3X higher with a 160 vs a 180/195. No ball joints on a '50 Plym., King Pins.
Heat control was tough due to headers and VERY narrow radiator opening even after modifications to original support, lower temp thermostat helped a bit by flowing sooner. The car never "ran" at 160 LOL Also, tie rod ends are ball joints; they should be replaced during a front end rebuild. I'm well aware the car has king pin spindles (see the aforementioned replaced spindles from Butch's).
The Summit info only talked about the themostats used, not run temps. A tie rod end may actually be a ball joint, but no one ever calls them that for obvious reasons.
A lower thermostat temp opening coolant flow 10-15secs earlier during warmup has near-nil impact on cylinder wall wear versus under-load running temps, perhaps source your tech advice from better sources than a cut-and-paste FAQ on a parts sales website. Engine temps are vastly more regulated by engine design (including water jacket casting thickness, water pump capacity and GPM, metallurgy, and oil flow/pressure) and given calculated cooling capacity and airflow, most engines will self-regulate close to manufacturer's spec for recommended engine temps (thermostats in the 195-210 range generally being introduced after the 70's to help exhaust gases burn hotter and vaporize better for emissions, not for engine wear considerations). Here's some light reading for ya. What it boils down to (wink wink) despite your prodding is that my engine ran 180-192 degree coolant temps at the inlet, very tightly regulated by the 3000cfm proform fan and aluminum radiator, but the 160 thermostat performed its intended duty of starting water flow sooner to prevent temp spikes in my engine due to bare stainless headers and the lag of a cooling system. The 180 fan sensor kicked around 187-190, as they usually do (due to air gap and low contact surface of the temp probe int he radiator fins). Zinc additive helped prevent bearing wear in case of any possible (not possible in my part of California at the time) freezing-temps operation. But, y'know, I know my engines. Oh, and the tie rod ends were very often referred to as ball joints back when these cars were new, including in the service books for them. Only after LCA/UCA type BJ-based suspension mounting points became commonplace did the nomenclature change for the tie rod ends and their literal ball joints. But hey, you learn something new every day, don't you George?
Realizing the 440 is tempting to try and swap as it is in hand, but I think it is not a good candidate because it is wide, the oil filter is a problem and will probably require firewall and steering column mods. A small block MoPar is a much better fit. There are a lot of threads about this on the site; here is one. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/my-1951-plymouth-cranbrook.1179013/#post-13387197
We keep saying that proartguy, and he asked for our opinions. Just hope that once he's stuffed the lump into the opening and looked at the issues that are well documented here that common sense takes over and it doesn't become another hacked up then abandoned project. I'd also mention that while a 440 out of a motorhome can be built to something amazing, the basic stock assembly is not something to be proud of. Double check heads (often different-smaller spark plugs/ports/cooling passages), water pump and housing, oil pan and pickup, and the intake/exhaust manifolds are not great.
Back in the late 60's, and fresh out of high school; a friend and I put his dad's '59 Imperial engine, trans, and rear axle into my '40 Chevy coupe! It was a 413 wedge with 727, and the Imperial rear axle. No firewall mods, and we just unbolted the whole front sheet metal and then sat it back on when the engine was located. Actually one of the easier swaps I've ever done, and no cutting of the firewall, and good radiator clearance. We had to cut a little of the inner fender panels up front for valve cover clearance. Bet you wont need that with your wider inner fenders.
Actually the only issue I'm having is the steering a in the way, going to offset it and see where I land.
Hope you stuffed some rags in the intake Being open like that is just too inviting to many items in your garage, they can't help themselves ... next thing you know you can't find your 1/4 socket because it couldn't resist the urge to jump
I don’t see why you could not put the exhaust manifolds on upside down as long as the ports match up. Exhaust gases don’t care if they are upside down or not.
I was debating a turbo setup later on but for now, I'm going to get everything in and seated and running.
So far from what I've learned about this build is it wasn't really difficult, the starter will go in from underneath (perfect for my perspective) and the exhaust manifolds go up and it clears the steering no problem
Interesting stuff for sure, I would have never thought about using a 440 in my 52 plymouth. I got a Butch's kit and a magnum small block. Will still be around 400 horse but a smaller package. Looks like it is going well for you though.
I put a 440 in a 46 DeSoto 727 trans ... It took a fair amount of engineering to get it all correct and nice , I at the same time put a MM2 front on it .. I've lost all the progress pics I had .. big job
After seeing the photo in post #45 and the conclusion it would be simple in post #51 I wonder how this swap has progressed.
Hey, sorry it has been a really rough couple of weeks but going to finally be putting the rear axle in come Monday. So far everything fits in without to much issues
Hey guys, The 440 build won't happen, I'm going to keep it with the stick motor l. Recently went to a car show and only a few older cars had the original motors to them, it inspired me to keep it as I really don't see most cars with a 70 year old motor that runs lol.
Car 'shows' may not be the best bellwether for any engine swap regardless of marque. If the L6 is what you desire then by all means keep it, but I'd suggest that you be true to your own vision, not someone elses......
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