Technical Rear Drums Squeak But Not Always

Went back to pick up shoes (store had to bring them in).
Box contained all secondary shoes.
Counter person had no idea what I was talking about.
Told him bring another set in, I'll bring used samples tomorrow for you to see.

 

Damn, seems like a good idea and something that won’t attract shit and turn it into valve grinding compound!

 

Second set came in. Samething, all secondary. Placed a call to out of the way auto supply since the 50's. No money up front, will be in by 9 a.m. tomorrow. Stay tuned.

 

A lot of the "new" brake shoes use the same lining for both the primary and the secondary shoes. I guess the modern mechanics don't work on drum brakes much anymore and don't understand the reason for the different shoes in the box. I can't count how many times I've seen brakes with both short shoes on one side of the car and both long shoes on the other side. If you talk with some of those guys, they complain the companies are cheating the customers because they are putting 2 shoes with short lining in each box. To solve the problem, many brake shoe companies are only using the secondary shoes and they are using the same material for all of them. There are no primary and no secondary shoes in most boxes anymore, just two pairs of brake shoes. Gene

 

Sad

 

And people wonder why I buy 90% of my parts online...

 

I doubt that many modern "mechanics" have done much drum brake work. I recall the day when shops knew nothing about disc brakes and sent them elsewhere.

Even back around 1975 I would see anything and everything under a brake drum. Mixed up shoes, grease on linings to keep them quiet, self adjusters removed to get better gas mileage. Broken parts, they would change shoes and use the old corroded hardware. Or not cut the drums, new shoes would be all grooved up. Good times.

 

Your doing good then. In my case description and photo supplied don't always match. Just like the shoes did when reviewing them on line before going to chain store to buy them.

 

My old Bronco would start squeaking pretty bad, even sounding like the shoes were shot. Pull the drums, full of dust each time, and no more squeaking for a while. Started thinking about it, and it hardly ever left town, short trips for groceries and such, so lots of brake use but very little fast rotation to let the dust work it's way out. Used it for commuting for a while, no noise, so pulled the drums to check, and it was dust-free

 

Since late August the car has been lots of places (Santa Margarita, San Diego, Ventura, Bakersfield) via highway speeds since being back together.

 

If these are brand name shoes, I suspect that there might be a "1-800" number you could call with any tech questions. If not, their website probably has an email account you could contact that would answer these kinds of questions.

If they say their shoes are now the same length and material for primaries and secondaries I'd run them and not lay awake at night worrying about it.

 

Well I'm on the 3rd box. This last box is from another store that's independent and been around since the mid 50's. This 3rd set are from Bosch now and same thing, all secondary shoes or should I say universal now. Did talk to head guy at Allied Auto Parts (Pasadena Ca.) and he confirms what @gene-koning said a few replies back.

I'll just check arc, adjust them as needed then bevel leading edge only and give them a go.

As far as staying awake, I won't. Multiple reasons for doing it this way now I suppose. Dumb consumers made manufactures liable that their vehicle didn't stop correctly after not installing properly. One less step at the manufacturing plant?

 

Probably more profitable for the manufacturers as well, all the same material, all cut the same length, all bonded to generic steel shoes, no special training for assembly employees, throw the same 4 shoes into the box and send it down the line.

 

And that's probably as good a reason as any. . .

 

At least they're not selling all primary shoes.

 

Size would be 11" X 1 3/4" and thanks for the offering, I'm good. I could make this new set have primaries if I really wanted to. Call it a cop out that I don't, but how else will I see the over all affect. Just upsetting that something that was designed for a reason has been deleted.

 

Update. Shoes out of the box fit drums pretty well but one. By eye I could see about a 3" portion was a little thicker and I removed lining material as needed. All though crude it's poor mans arcing at best using a socket of equal diameter as anchor pin and mocking shoes in the drum with adjuster for just enough tension to hold shoes from sliding. Also chamfered leading edges.

Assembled shoes to vehicle and no way to get shoes to center left to right (remember me mentioning earlier that e brake cables were to tight?). As per manual after brakes have been installed and adjusted, e brake needs to me checked for correct adjustment. What happened is Park Brake Link does not allow shoes to rest on anchor pin correctly when not enough slack is present. This was the cause of the offset.

With e brake cable readjusted there still was an issue even though shoes now float left to right easily and recenter well. With a wire pointer fashioned onto axle flange the issue surfaced. The shoes are too low. Only one thing I can do. Rework shoes at anchor pin location to bring shoes up. But that will be for another day. Tri-Fives in Bakersfield this weekend!

 

The last bastion of hope is find a good old set of shoes that fit well and have them relined...........but that is truly sad.

 

A couple of years ago I bought two sets of new shoes with bonded lining for my "42 Ford and my '29
V-8 with hydraulic brakes. There were not any two shoes out both sets that had the same length of lining. My mind started to boggle. I was also pissed. Has the world gone mad? I paired them up as good as I could and put them on. They stop the cars okay and I guess that's all that matters. I have some old shoes with proper linings, or what's left of them. Next time I'll send them in for relining with a note to keep the linings correct. We'll see about that.

 

Doesn't your '56 have adjustable anchor pins? Maybe eccentric in the mount hole.

 

Negative. Been sitting thinking along the lines of what you've brought up since my last post. If I oval anchor pin hole so I can make adjustments to where it exactly needs to be that would be better than an eye ball measurement guess and would be great for future brake jobs.

 

Where I work we get brake shoes relined all the time. They all come back with the linings the same length, primary shoe and secondary shoe same length linings. They seem to work OK so I guess it doesn't matter.

 

That's kinda interesting. Back when Bendix brakes had up-down adjustable anchor pins, the shoe arcing machines just held the shoes and cut the set radius. When brakes went to fixed anchor pins, the arcing machines were changed to locate the shoe off the anchor pin notch using gauge plates specific to the shoes being arced. So there is more to arcing the shoes than just cutting the radius to drum diameter with fixed anchor backing plates. Wonder how the manufacturers do things now-a-days; probably figure people will just let them wear in.

 

Partial update to a late start. Morning rain and now gardener showed up so I covered car back up and I'm here now.

Did one side with success. Measured at best by eye with a dial indicators held at true vertical and found .080" difference from top to bottom. What to do? Do I oval backing plates for anchor pin to be adjustable or oval anchor point of shoes? I choose shoes because they were cheap and easier to throw away than missing up backing plates.

The oval I worked at best to achieve was one of a flat in the middle with corresponding radius equal to anchor pin so shoes would ride up by .040" from the tension of the return springs so shoes can center themselves to axle center line. It worked!. Now I'm able to set shoe's width equal to drum's diameter with out any binding when placing drum onto wheel studs and seating drum firming against axle flange.

I don't think there should be any issue with shoes getting wedged and binding in theory since primary shoe has no way of governing it's self via any sort of pivot point. We'll see?

 

Just a question I have since Johnny has started this thread.
What is the advantage of two different shoes? Wouldn’t more shoe contact equal better braking performance? If not, why not?
I’ve replaced a lot of shoes, putting them on as the old ones came off, but never actually looked hard at what was going on and why.

 

That's the thing. Most everyone frowns upon drum brakes when they shouldn't. I see how easy it is to go to the other side considering what's being put out there today when doing a drum brake job. But then again!, how many full disc conversion threads appear here that don't work?

 

Basically the long shoe (rear when anchor pin at the top) is the one that does most of the work by shear design due to having only a single anchor pin regardless what length the front shoe is. The reason for a short front shoe is for a more even wear of both front and rear shoe when brake lining have expired.

 

Back on the road with no noises other than rear tires screeching when in full lock up.