Projects Mild custom '51 Pontiac Chieftain

@PhilA did you escape the floods that we see on the news...18 inches of rain, really!

 

Haven’t tried yet but I don’t expect my cars window seals to handle a garden hose unfortunately. Got any leaks?

 

We did, that all landed 50 miles north of here. Thankfully, one of my colleagues as I type this is up on his roof putting down tarpaulin!

 

Uh. Yes? It leaks like a sieve. I just take care where I'm putting the water on it!

Phil

 

Went out last night and get a milkshake. The car had been sat up since Tuesday because of the weather, so I figured I'd give it a run.
Turning down into the street here, I braked and the pedal went to the floor.

This morning I took the brake line off because it bore witness to interfering with the fuel line on full suspension compression.

Also, since I put the new exhaust on, it also decided to interfere.


I made up a brand new line, re-routed to avoid hitting anything.

Bled up and tested. Much better.

Phil

 

Wow, Pontiac with no brakes, scary stuff right there.

 

Hamdbrake still worked!

I wrote this elsewhere after making the same comment and the picture of the skid marks behind the car, and someone said scary stuff- could've been worse if the driver were inexperienced:

Truth in that. Yes, I left those after a hard jab on the brakes (the "it either works or something goes pop" test) from about 15 mph.
It's the era of car which gives us our stopping distance from speed X. Imagine a modern car taking that distance to stop from what is essentially a very fast sprint. That's 3300 lbs of vehicle on dry tarmac, both front wheels locked so dynamic friction on a very small contact patch (skinny tires) and "panic held" until the car stopped. At that point, Sir Isaac Newton is in the driver's seat, not you, and you need to know it, too.

I was taught to anticipate mechanical failure, feel the vehicle, drive it according to its limits and expect any use of the controls to have a potential issue. Also that if you need to use the steering and pedals, drive knowing they are opposites; if you have to steer for a maneuver, don't plan on using the brakes or accelerator during the time you need to steer. Brake first, slightly ahead of needing to. Because if you need your brakes and they don't work then that little extra time you can use to change down a gear or two or use the handbrake if it still works too in order to scrub off enough speed that you can either turn or safely abort. Flip-side, you press on the brakes while turning too fast and you'll exhaust the static friction of the tires and lock the wheels up during the turn- again Newton replaces you as driver.

Now, granted in an emergent situation the rules change. You are likely to have to slow down first or swerve, or both. The car is moderately good at the Moose Test- I've actually had to swerve hard loaded 4 up before (granted, usually the first thing you want to do is brake) at about 35 mph which isn't much fun but in terms of retaining control of the vehicle is not bad at all. If the brakes quit you need to swerve; alternatively if you swerve hard and lose a front tire in the event then you'll similarly lose control of the vehicle, so that's also something you rely upon.

If I can be taught this, it can be passed down. As a young driver, no, my experience wasn't as rich as it is now but understanding the physics involved in driving a car is important.

You may look at me strange when I say my kids will be learning to drive in a car from the 60's. It's a much more forgiving vehicle. It'll lunge and squeal long before it breaks traction, and if it does, it'll give you fair warning beforehand. It's quite easy to feel what's going on in a big barge of a vehicle. They'll also be learning in a modern vehicle with all the mod-cons as the mirror image of that car, to get a flavor of what a car can actually do when the car does a fair bit of the driving for you as you approach its limits.

So yes. Scary that it occurred, glad it happened when it happened and who it happened to, but on the flip-side, learning that things can and do go wrong is important. I've had brake failure in a car with dual circuit brakes, in the first year of getting my license. The first press of the pedal returned less braking effort than this did even with a sizeable hole in the pipe. Granted, subsequent pumps brought the brakes back to life in that situation but who would try pump the brakes if they didn't know? It took 5 pumps to get pedal back and even then the brakes were terrible- the handbrake didn't do much because one rear wheel was faded already (rear right brake jammed on going downhill, faded the shoes and boiled the brake fluid).

So yes, I agree. Modern cars are safer and that takes into account that drivers, old and new often lack knowledge or skill- road fatality statistics over the years show that- but I plan on trying to instil in my kids that a) it's only a machine and it can and will break b) other people are blithely piloting their cars about completely unaware of the existence of anything around them c) and that nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Hopefully that's enough to prevent them from becoming a statistic.

Phil

 

I just read this whole thread the last couple evenings. I'm impressed! I loved your gauge rebuild and rewinding. We just picked up a '48 Pontiac, so I'll probably have to do similar jobs someday soon.

 

Glad it was enjoyable to read. A lot of the jobs on this were due to previous mechanics not understanding the car before doing something, so hopefully yours has had some more experienced people working on it in the past and isn't too badly butchered.

Good luck with it!

 

Just went rescue my sister in law. Her boyfriend sat in her car with the radio on and flattened the battery.
Drove down, hooked up and the ammeter showed a high rate of charge so left it to boost for a few minutes and then it cranked over with no problems.

Funny, 70 y/o car goes rescues 3 y/o car.

Filled up down there because the Citgo has 90 octane non-ethanol. Averaging 9.8 mpg which isn't bad because I've been doing a lot of local short trips.

Rear right brake was binding on a little after the 55-60 mph drive, 8 miles back so I need to loosen that off a notch.

Otherwise it's running nicely. Quite happy must driving it about, even if it's getting a little warm for it now.

Phil

 

All the way up in the air.


Click, click. That's better. Doesn't take much to screw up brake adjustment on these.

Phil

 

There's not a whole lot to report, really. The weather's been quite pleasant and I've just been adding miles to the car.

A quick run for breakfast (I like their coffee), a check on return and it's stopped burning oil, the timing is better for daily use now and it's been performing duties as A Car.
Quite happy with that, actually.

Phil

 

Great news Phil. Now enjoy the benefits of all your hard work.

 

Trying to! Last night was cool, on the verge of rain.

Went for a quick drive, still fun to do!

 

Yup, don't get tired of that view.

Takes the area back a few years, looking at it like that.

Phil

 

Funny, tonight I'm on my way home, on the same stretch of highway in the picture above. I'm doing 55 (it's a 65 limit, but there wasn't much traffic) and a guy in a Mustang GT pulls up alongside, honks his horn and revs his engine a few times.

I laugh, smile and wave. I'm running nearly all-out as is, so no... I'm not gonna race you.

It's amazing how many people think it's a really fast car. I guess it looks it. I'm happy with it being a smooth, slow cruiser. Got stuck in stop-start traffic on the way down behind a school bus- it was totally happy. Sat at 55 on the highway, totally happy.
But fast? Not in the repertoire!

Phil

 

But the Poncho's cool look is over the top!

 

Weather's moving in, and we are due rain for the next week.

So, I went for a drive. Billiard table smooth, new blacktop! Bliss!

Decided to see if it would tolerate highway speeds in this heat (88f out now the sun went down). Held a stable 180 all the way.

About 60% of engine maximum, holding a pretty decent vacuum for a sidevalve.

Overall quite happy with that. It was nice to get out and just aimlessly drive.

Phil

 

Hope all is well, miss your regular postings!

 

Yeah, been a bit quiet here. The weather's been so changeable. I've been taking on a few indoor projects in lieu.


However, today an unexpected box from our very own @302GMC! Reversing lights!

Thank you!

 

I managed to pull the lights apart without shearing anything, they both had an old style bulb in (both blown) and are in really very good shape, just in need of a clean.


Whizzed the rust off and gave a coat of paint. That's drying now, I'll see about fitting them afterwards.

Phil

 

Nice, that looks better.


Bonus, they even work!

Phil

 

Always a pleasant read Phil. Turned out to be a darned nice car, huh? A lot of them do when given some TLC and driven with respect. Perhaps when you begin your new project you could continue to show us details of what you are doing without really showing year-specific photos of the car. Your can-do approach and explanations are priceless.

 

Well, the car exceeds the HAMB by about 4 months! It's a '66 Plymouth Fury.

Imagine standard MOPAR rust, and you've got a good imagination of what it's like.


Phil

 

I had a Fury III coupe of that year. White, black wheels & tires with cop car hubcaps, cold air, flawless interior ... wound the torsion bars down about 12 turns & put on a pair of those red mufflers you saw in the barrel when you walked into a good parts house. I still miss it a lot ...

 

I hate rust……

 

Yup, Fury 3 coupe, 318+Torqueflite. White with blue interior originally, it's currently mauve with most of the interior missing. Sad story involving an ex Marine and a bodyshop not doing very good work. It's a bit of a basket case and needs a fair bit of love but I'd what I had wanted. Something fairly cheap, mid sixties, fairly easy to get parts for etc.

I also hate rust. But it's a Mopar. It gonna rust. I've seen ones for $8000+ that are bondo and rust, so I paid a fraction of that for... Bondo and rust. It's a bit warm right now to do much on it, but come winter I'll be replacing the trunk floor and lower quarters, zipping up a few holes and generally trying to make nice.

Between then, I still need to do the valve lash on the Chieftain; one valve is rather too slack now. Clik clik clik.

Phil

 

A hot tune-up day today. On the books, valve lash.


Some had closed up, some has gone way wide. All set between 11 and 13 thou' now.
Silent running achieved, the lumpy misfire at 1500 RPM is gone. Greased the front suspension being as it was jacked up. Need to set the points and oil the linkages yet but it's turned into a rocket ship now.

Phil

 

After having done about 50 miles in it today, doing the valves makes the most noticeable difference to the running. At 45 (pretty much bang on 2000 rpm) it's near silent and progression is made deftly.

In other news I'm now pretty sure I've got something sticking in the throttle modulator circuit on the gearbox to cause the gears to act weird.
Mind you, twice today it changed gears perfectly, through all 4 from a standing start. The throttle modulator is meant to do 2 things: First it modulates the line pressure going to the servos and clutches, making a full throttle gear change much more violent and positive than one at light throttle. That is a simple bleed valve that's opened.
Second it changes the road speed at which the gears change, by putting part of the bleed pressure behind 3 pistons that boost the gear change springs.

So, a catch up on that- the governor spins with road speed, and increases pressure behind the 3 main gear change pistons. Each has a spring (or springs) which are each harder to compress than the last, meaning as road speed increases, pressure against the springs rises, the weak spring is overcome and the valve shuttles, causing the gears to change to 2nd. Then again to 3rd as the second valve shuttles, and then finally 4th. The valves are prevented from shuttling also by the pistons which have force in proportion to gas pedal position behind them meaning a higher road speed pressure is required to shuttle them if the gas pedal is pressed down.

So, the incorrect behavior is thus:
First gear will hold until 3rd gear engages, often missing 2nd or engaging it very briefly. 4th then will not engage until high road speed is achieved. Sometimes releasing the gas pedal makes it shift, other times not and it'll hang in 3rd.
As road speed decreases, it'll sometimes go 4-3-1 and then suddenly to 2 with quite a jerk.
Reverse often engages the parking pawl with the engine running.

Things to bear in mind, the throttle modulator piston is not sprung. It is only returned by hydraulic pressure against the lever arm that actuates it.
There's a secondary shuttle for the line pressure modulator.


Either one of the pistons that push against the gear change valves is sticking open and preventing correct movement or the throttle modulator valve is acting janky.

The throttle modulator valve has been recipient of minimal attention because it's in the top half of the valve block.

I think I'll start there, so perhaps this weekend if the weather allows I'll drop the oil and pull the valve block off again and check the modulator valve assembly in great detail.

It's proven it can change smoothly and correctly. It just needs to do it more often!

Phil

 

I wish I could do 1/4 of what you can. I can't even get motivated to work on the car. My OT GTO is stripped of all the trim in anticipation of a paint job that isn't going to happen now. Long story short it started as a $1,500 scratch repair that ballooned into a $12,000 full repaint. Insurance wouldn't cover the repaint and I couldn't find a shop willing to do the scratch repair. Top coat isn't bonded to the primer and all the paint shops were afraid to attempt the repair. So, I, with very little paint and body experience am attempting to fix the scratches myself. I don't know how it will turn out but it won't hurt to try.
To add to that I had a blood vessel burst in my left eye leaving temporarily blind in that eye. That was almost 3 weeks ago and I am getting better but still have blood in it.
And, just when I was throwing a pity party for myself, my best friend(more like my brother) of over 40 years was diagnosed with terminal cancer the same day I had my eye problem. He lasted 8 days.
Now, I have no one to talk to about cars and stuff so it's hard to get going. I think about selling every car I have but I have to get them in shape to sell.
I apologize for taking up space in your thread. I just need to do a little venting.