Dumb question, with all this camshaft failure, why not perform a Rockwell hardness test on the cam and lifters? Do the manufacturer test them?
What a shame. You would think that a piece from each heat treated batch would be tested. Here's some neat info. about this. https://www.cpgnation.com/camshaft-heat-treatment-explained/ and https://www.google.com/search?q=che...7j33i10i160.7848j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
A responsible/reputable heat treater WILL check a sample on "every" batch that they heat treat. It most probably written into his contract by any reputable cam manufacturer. The cam and the lifter (different in many cases) manufacturer may or may not do a sample check. They depend on the heat treater doing his job. Though cam manufacturer may perform a "source inspection" at regular intervals. But the hardness is only part of the situation. The final coating (some parkerize, some use proprietary coatings) is also part of the cam living past the break-in process. Mike
Mike, Thanks for that info. Very helpful and informative. I can see where buying from a reputable company is critical. I miss the days when just about everything was "Made In the USA". Hopefully, Americans will realize we need to make parts here again.
Yeah,,,,most aftermarket use a Parkerized coating. I think some OEMs do as well . I remember that every Mopar camshaft I bought had no coating . Purple shaft or not,,,,they had,straight ground lobes with no coating . Funny,,,,I never did lose any lobes then either ! Tommy
So many "manufacturers" outsource their stuff to the lowest bidder, rely on the vendor to match specs, then just package and ship. "TO HELL WITH THE CUSTOMER, we're saving money (more $$$ for the CEO)!! And besides, it says right in here, in our specs that material is to be this, heat treat is to be this... why should we check it? They say they provide what the purchase order says, they're good to do business with (we can stretch out paying them for months), so LET THE BUYER BEWARE!!! Besides, we've never heard of that problem, and if we have, it was the customer's fault." Thank goodness for the latest business models (NOT)!!
Phone booth, I think you are pretty darn close . After all,,,,if you burn up a new cam and lifters,,,,,how can you prove it was the components and not you . You can’t,,,,,you just have to lose the money and start over . I’m pretty sure they know this too,,,otherwise they would be more concerned about the problem . Unless,,,,maybe it is us ? No,,,,,no way,,,,,at least I hope not,,,,LoL . Tommy
Hey Tommy, I'm not saying it couldn't be me that would screw up..... BUT.... there's a lot of guys on here with YEARS of experience that have commented on cams and lifters going south which sure leads me to believe the problem is more deep rooted than we are led to believe. Same goes for 'recommended' cam break-in procedures: how many times do you think they followed current procedures 'back in the day'? Not many! I wonder what Ed Isky would say about it. I would like to see a side-by-side hardness comparison of an off the shelf cam from any supplier next to a welded and reground cam as mentioned above, as well as condition after 'break in' to see how they fare. My guess is, the welders/regrinders probably produce a better product, because they live each day on a face-to-face basis with customers, and actually care about what they ship out the door. JMHO.
buicks are known for cam, lifter issues. what is done now is they edm a hole in the lifter face to provide oil for both cam and lifter. i go one step further and have the cam polish. with quality oil, no real need to break in my cam. just go racing.
I had done my 1st cam changes while in high school. We had a great instructor and he walked us through them. He would roll his eyes at some of the cam choices... but they were all runners. Bad lobes on new installs was unheard of back around 1972.
Your "straight ground" comment reminded me of the following article. Could this be the reason there are so many failures nowadays? If the cam and lifters aren't compatible there is guaranteed chaos. https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2009/04/flat-or-tapered-cams-and-flat-or-crowned-lifters/
I have machining cams and crancshafts for 20 years now for a Swedish carmanufakturer. The problem is that the Rockwelltester leave marks on the tested surface. And to see how deep the hardening is you need to cut the axle to see how deep it is. And the hardeningprocedure is alot more complicated then it first look. You cant have a bad day working with hardening couse it take a while before failure. And after failure there aint anything to mesure left.
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