I have an alloy 4 port Riley head and I'm looking for some info. It's old and unfinished and has a huge inlet manifold. It all appears to be in good condition but the machining was never finished. Anyone have any info? I'm after any history and any dimensions for rockers etc. so parts could be made to get it finished.
might want to contact Jim Brierley or Charlie Yapp, there would be others but a good start https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/jim-brierleys-4-bangers-and-me.938948/ www.secretsofspeed.com https://www.foureverfour.com/
WOW ! That's a rare item. I owned a normal cast iron one once, but never knew any were made in aluminum.
Most likely a later casting like mine. They've been casted several times over the years and mine was casted by Vesco I believe in the 1980's. Im interested to see its cast for Winfield carburetors and not the easier to find Stromberg's. The Riley runs like a scalded dog and is actually faster than my flathead roadster. Geoffrey
Thanks All, I'm advised from the octogenarian that owned it that it's from late 30s early 40s but hey who knows for sure. I'm told that George Riley moved to the 4 port in the late 30s and began casting in alloy shortly after that, I believe the alloy example in the Museum of American Speed (photo below) is classed as a Riley manufactured head. The oxidization of the head and manifold shows aging but again who knows for sure......more importantly I would like to find the rockers etc. or dimensions to machine them, thanks to all for your assistance with this and hopefully someone will have a lead on info. Many thanks, Mark.
Riley's were all cast iron before WW2 the alum ones after the war. If it's one of those Riley made the spark plug inserts are steel. The one stud hole near the water pump goes thru the water jacket. Vesco and Butlers still used the original patterns but Butler made some changes like fixing the pattern so the stud didn't go thru the water jacket. Photos are of one of Butlers rockers. Length is 3 5/16 ,width is 2 5/16 , height is 1 3/8, shaft hole is 5/8 These are all rough casting sizes.
That's excellent information and thank you for the rocker dimensions as it's a huge help. Do you know if it is possible to source rockers or is making a set the only option.
Where are you at? That looks a lot like mine. If you look at my album My Riley 4 Port I have more pic's there. I can give you some history of mine. Mine was cast by George Butler who had the original patterns from George Riley, I think he got those from Vesco. George Butler sold the patterns a few years back, but i don't know to whom. They were selling them in a model a parts house behind Colton Auto Parts owned by Rick James. Somewhere I have a sells pamphlet.
I believe you will need to make your own. Very little 4 port stuff out there. The one in the photo goes to an unmachined Butler I have. If you are not going to use Winfield carbs I would be interested in the intake as long as the intake ports are 1 3/4 and it's not for D size Winfields.
Are the springs just normal springs or is there a cup type deal in the aluminum bore? Never seen this much info on the Aluminum Riley 4Port, had a cast iron one dated 1934 back in the 1970's. That Intake is setup for Riley side draft carbs I believe. I'll dig out my Riley book and post what I find tomorrow. Bob
George Butler improved the rockers! There are a couple threaded ports on the side of the head to bring the oil up. It's pressurized. Here's a pic I borrowed from the HAMB . I talked to an old racer and he said they soaked a sponge in oil? Don't know if it's true or not.
I use felt pads on the 35 head in my roadster. Can go roughly 100-125 miles before I need to re oil them.
You might ask about this on the monthly banger meet. Lots of knowledge there and you may find some parts too. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/august-2020-banger-meet-thread-more-of-the-same.1201323/
Hey Mark, Someone asked...where you located. Good question, as if your close to anyone here, you can come inspect/measure/pictures, etc, eh.. There are some parts out there yet. I passed on a nos set of riled rocker parts when this canada guy started playing games. They ended up in Oregon. My opinion, most stuff still in existence is in possession of OLD timers and collectors.....I've seen it myself. Yours may be a Riley or Butler clone or other clone. I have a nos alloy 4 port with manifold by...Norman Frick. Both polished. I sold off several original cast iron Rileys...due to no available rocker parts. If you know a casting foundry guy, I'd have the bronze type cast. I believe that Butler made his rocker version of bronze. As you know, parts are missing from yours. For what its worth, the original springs/valves were set up with readily available model A parts...a good thing, eh ! My Frick is set up that way., and has pressure oiling. Frick was genious. This is interesting if you have side draft Riley carbs, of which there were two sizes....small 11/2" throat; 2" throat. Riley used STROMBERG parts...easily available..smart man, indeed ! The 2" were mainly used for racing, whereas the 1 1/2" were ONE of first editions and used for racing. I was told, by the old experts (who had never seen, let alone run these carbs) that you can not run these on street. I have and they do work! You need a stout banger for sure to make use of them. The oiling was via felt pads on original RILEY cast iron heads, however, small oiling ports were also added in each rocker tower. My cast iron original 4 port had BOTH. These ports are for adding pressure oiling...a good idea for longevity. I bought the last nos pads/tower gaskets from an ford parts place in Los A. My cast iron Riley, with large 2" racing carbs/manifold was assembled by George, as was his custom....when selling to a customer. Sequentially numbered carbs boost this 'story'. Mine was/is used /jetted for fuel, but that is easily changed for gas. I have some both jetting somewhere. Proper jetting is , of course , important. An invaluable source of information about George Riley and his carbs business is in the book. I had three new books but sold one to a friend. This book is scarce, to say the least. For a number of reasons, neither of the two 4 ports have been run...health being most of why, now age added. My cast iron Riley has a serial number (indicating birth date 35...I think. Havent looked at it for years). On original cast iron heads, most anyway, this number is located where the water pump attached. I say on most heads, because I had one cast iron head that had NONE ! Trivia...Riley made TWO different cast iron 4 ports....huge intakes and smaller intake ports. Huge were 2" +/- . Smaller...about 1 3/4"...better one and last made of the two. The 2" could be 'fixed' (couple ways) for smaller intake port size, however, I just sold it to someone with machine skill and equipment. Somewhere, I have information for possible source of parts. Or maybe dreaming again ! If wanted, I'll add pictures of heads/carbs. Rick
There is a Third cast iron Riley, the intake ports were on top, for true down draft carbs. Sold mine to a Bonneville Legend, sure would like to buy it back. Bob
Hey Rick, thank you for your reply and excellent information. I am based in Carlow, Ireland, now you'll understand my difficulties with parts......I bought the head to run on my B in my sprint car project. I sent the engine to England to get shells fitted and the shaft drilled to get pressure feed to the rods. From earlier advice it sounds like the head I have is possibly a Butler cast as the single stud hole beside the water pump flange is fitted with a steel sleeve through the water jacket. The manifold and ports are 1 3/4 bore. The push rod holes look narrow, were these opened up to a larger size prior to assembling? Same with the oil feed to the valve train, on mine the feed holes are not bored. Any advice on completing this woul be greatly appreciated. I have a good foundry near by, I'm going to try to copy the rockers in the photos kindly sent earlier in the conversation my fear is that if I get it wrong I will do damage and I want to avoid that. Many thanks for your information if there is an accurate drawing of a rocker arm I would be extremely grateful to see it. Mark.
Would anyone have or know of anyone who would 3d scan a rocker? Or have a rocker to sell? I discussed it with the foundry today and they think it's an easy part to make. Any help with this would be appreciated and would get this racecar and its 4 port back on the track. Mark.
Here's a cool book if you can find it, it's out of print. Here's also a flyer from a shop that used to sell Butler Riley's, it was behind Colton Auto Parts. I'll ask around on the Rocker.
Again many thanks all for your excellent information. I will try track down a copy of the book. What year is the brochure from? I'll call H&H today to see if they have a rocker they would sell or scan. I'll keep you posted.
Brochure is from the 80's. Dan Iandola did an article for Rod & custom several years ago that has some good info, also there is a small book "Building the 100 MPH Model "A" Ford" By Geo. Riley , I think that one is being reprinted.
It's taken almost a year but I've finally cast a set of bronze rockers. Thanks to two very knowledgable and helpful JJ members that provided a pattern this engine is now one step closer to the track! Mark.