I believe the Kettering design 49 Olds and Caddy were the first common production wedge heads. Compared to a Hemi, a wedge needs less octane for the same cylinder pressure.This didn't seem to be an issue in 1950's But it's difficult to compare the latest fast burn wedge head designs that equal any N/A hemi and are not traditional for this forum. I have extensive experience land speed racing vintage Triumph bikes. They are 1930's technology with a full hemi head, no squish band and a more side mounted plug than a Mopar Hemi. These old bike engines are detonation prone even stock on modern pump gas. I have done some custom machine work to have a perimeter squish band and it makes a big difference... Someone here with Mopar hemi experience will have a better opinion...
Thanks. Yeah I too have played with early motorcycle heads, added squish bands, dual plugs. Only street bikes though. In my experience I was able to run significantly less timing and higher compression. That's why I wondered if the early Hemis were compromised without it, if in fact it was not incorporated (and my guess is not). If the wedge heads of that era weren't yet taking advantage (I have no idea, for example, what the squish clearance was on a 265-283 SBC), probably didn't matter if octane and fuel prices were not of concern. I only mentioned modern Hemi heads as evidence they feel it's important in todays world. But we are straying from the topic at hand: Ford Flathead vs. Chrysler Hemi. My fault.
I have had them all flathead 53 merc in a 41 ford I had, Chevy's various sizes, and Hemis they are all fun to build and enjoy. But love my 392 in my 40 Ford! Just think of a flathead with ardun heads similar look.
Correct on the squish, or lack thereof. The EarlyHemi combustion chamber is generally the same diameter as the cylinder and the piston generally has a chamfer. The only way to 'make' a squish would be to use a small diameter chamber (331?) on a large bore ( 4" +?) and then come up with a very custom piston. IMHO, not worth the effort.
Read this yesterday, decided not worth my time to respond, because you obviously are still suffering from a depressed state after all these years. Sorry for you, so I give you something to perhaps help with therapy and finally releasing you from a life long bondage of loosing such a traumatic event in your early life. This is a little larger than a DeSoto 241, (331), I do believe it will run with a FH Merc also. Best of luck with leaving your depressed state behind.
Yes, Birdman is a fellow Iowan. But he lives north of I - 80. Different part of the state. A town of 6000 plus with no McDonalds. And he likes Leopard upholstery also.
Off topic, but in 1973 I beat my buddy's 1968 Road Runner with 426 Hemi, 2 fours, 4 speed and 4.11 gears with my 1970 Maverick running 289, 4V, headers, LeMans cam, 4 speed, and 3.00 single traction rear. It was the first motor I ever built. We were on the drag strip and he couldn't believe it, so we ran again and he dropped his drive shaft. He was having a hard time getting traction. Before the night was over, I blew my clutch and busted the block. He later got some slicks, but we never got a rematch. Ron
Over rated and Hemi in same sentence doesn’t mix. It’s “One” of the best mills ever produced. A hemi in a Hotrod don’t get better even though a flathead sure has a sound like no other.
I was 16 and I was cruising my parent's 55 Olds super 88 around "the gut" one Saturday night. Somebody told me there was a butterscotch yellow 56 Dodge 2 door from the next town over racing everybody. I challenged him to a race and we went out on canal road. It was known the guy would never open the hood and he ran cheater slicks with "circus wheels". One half painted black and one half painted white. WE busted off the line and that Dodge blasted off like a saturn rocket! Musta beat me by 1/8th mile! He'd admit to having a hemi engine and nothin else. I was impressed.
Some guys don’t like Hemi’s Some guys don’t like big breasts. God must love crazy people, he makes so many of them. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Early hemis were low compression, 7.5:1, and ran fine on regular gas. They had no squish band. The company emphasized in their ads, that their engines developed full power and performance on regular gas and did not need high octane gas. Later models had higher compression, up to 10:1 in 1958 and required high octane gas.
[QUOTE="Rusty O'Toole, post: 13955549, member: 19893"it was only 7.5:1 compression. .[/QUOTE] The 241 was officially 7-7.1:1 C/R. A build on the old Webrodder Forum one measured to an actual 6.19:1!
Allways loved this video https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...12158F5021B0AC7E50AC121&view=detail&FORM=VIREs
Maybe I worry too much, but I don't think I'd buy the motor featured in that video, it was running for well over a minute (who knows how much more) with no coolant, apparently. Thirty seconds dry might be okay....
"Thing" is correct! I see a lot of Ford and GM there, but I don't see much which is pertinent to this thread or in fact to the HAMB. IMHO each to his own, but Hemis and flatheads are both handicapped for racing without a GM blower,( or at least something to put pressure in the intake) and the Hemi weighs as much as two flatheads.
Something was wrong with the Hemi Roadrunner or the driver. That car was capable of at least 13's. The Maverick I would expect to run at least 2 seconds slower.
You are correct. He couldn't get any traction. A few weeks later, he did turn in the low 13s. The best I ever saw with the Maverick was 13.86 with a 3 speed trans. My boss paid for the 4 speed and was going to get me a posi rear the next month, but I blew the clutch and never got the rear end. I ended up putting a '69 351W in with Offenhauser intake and 650 Holley. With the 4 speed and 3.00 rear I went 14 flat in the quarter. I sure needed some good gears. Now, my off topic '16 F150, with a 6 cylinder would probably keep up with the Maverick. Lol. Ron
Back in the 60s it was all about tires from Motor Trend a 425 hp 409 off the show room floor was only half a second faster than a 300 hp 327 despite having a 125 hp advantage.
If my memory is correct, I remember a road test of a 57 DeSoto Adventurer , 345? Hp Hemi...I ran 0 to 60 in the 7 second range . That was a 4000 pound car with blazing performace for the time. Maybe only a Vette could match that...
I seem to remember the quickest American car in '57, other than the Corvette zero to 60, was a Rambler Rebel, and it was 7 seconds. But I could be wrong.
I own both engines in question at the moment, a 471 blown 8BA in my roadster and a 10:1 330 desoto hemi that's naturally asperated in my pick up. I only got to take a few runs in the truck prior to tear down for paint but while the two are similar in HP the Hemi has torque the flathead cant make. Even though I spent double the hemi money building the flathead (and that is about 3 or 4 times what a SBC would cost) the flathead would lose the drag race. But it would come in first for best looking engine!
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