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Technical Running a Mag on the street or an Imitation

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by FNG, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. FNG
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 422

    FNG
    Member
    from New Jersey
    1. HAMB Relays

    I'll keep this short and sweet
    What are your thoughts about running a magneto on the street, or one of those electronic ignitions look-alike mags, the application is a small block Chevy. Does anyone run a magneto on the street anymore or what about those ones that look like a mag but house electronic ignition.
    Your thoughts are greatly appreciated as always
     
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  2. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    Magnetos are not well suited for the street, but they can be run. Magnetos spark increases as rpms do. Spark at idle is minimal, so cold starting could be an issue. They have to be grounded to kill the engine, so a kill switch would be required. Also, solid core wires are required.

    I think the magneto look alikes would not perform any better. I haven't heard about their reliability yet, but I think they had some issues. It's the only real option out there for the early Cadillac engines, so I have wondered the same. I'll probably end up with a Pertronix conversion.

    Read this. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/joe-hunt-distributor-issue.683577/
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
  3. Tried the fake Joe Hunt, just replaced it with a MSD ready to run distributor. The fake mag is a cool idea on theory, but the execution is poor. I haven't run a mag on the street, but would try that before the Joe hunt deal again. There are multiple threads here about the low reliability rate of the fake magneto's.
     
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  4. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'd want to say that the main reason for running a mag on the street is that the whole build looks 1oo% race car with a license plate and a distributor and coil would look out of place.

    One has to remember that the majority of race cars that run them now don't have batteries or even a starter and are push start circle burners. They work pretty good on those dirt track sprint cars.
     
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  5. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    I'm sorry I have to disagree about running a magneto on the street. I think the FAA would also. Aircraft have been running magneto's forever. Have a vertex freshened up and rare earth magnets installed. You can get 5-7 amps out of an old vertex with the right mods. That will light dirty dish water. And they are very reliable. Lippy
     
  6. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I forgot that one, My thoughts were more on running an old used one on a mild engine just to look the part. I've been around too many guys who stick race car parts on a mild street engine in the past 50 years and then can't get it dialed in to where it drives decent.
     
  7. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    :DYeah too many people just buy an old wore out mag and stick it in the car and are disappointed. You need to send the old drag raced wore out mag off to someone like Spud miller and get it rebuilt. Still cost you the same as a non traditional MSD or whatever. But properly curved and set up , they are very reliable. Independent of the battery it will get you home when the battery goes poof. And you have more firewall clearance. (If it 's a chevy) lol. When you get into the higher amp stuff you'll need an external condenser and coil and a big cap. But for the street you shouldn't need more than a 2 amp mag. So it still looks the same on the outside as far as dimensions. A good vertex will start fine, in all conditions on gas. JMO. Lippy
     
  8. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Should have kept my mouth shut now all those cheap vertex's I been buying are gonna go up. :D
     
  9. UNSHINED 2
    Joined: Oct 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,164

    UNSHINED 2
    Member

    Yeah---Thanks a lot!:D;)
     
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  10. 51box
    Joined: Aug 31, 2005
    Posts: 1,099

    51box
    Member
    from MA

    I run a Vertex mag in my coupe around 6k miles now and it works flawlessly. I sent the mag to Pat Mason in PA and had him add mechanical advance and freshen it up. Highly recommend him for fast turn around and price can’t be beat.
    My HD has a magneto also and I’ve never had a problem with it even getting caught in the rain etc.
     
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  11. Yep... Mags rule..

    Mechanical advance is the way to go on the street.

    I have a friend /client that put 300k and 40 years on a single vertex mag before needing a freshening up.
     
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  12. Heard a lot bad, never heard anything good.
     
  13. 2020 chopped 34 in da fog.jpg Over 6500 trouble free miles with 1 in this 1, it's a Vertex
     
  14. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,216

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Most every small engine ( lawnmower , chainsaw , older outboards ,etc.) Is fired by a magneto ,they are dead nuts reliable , require very few parts , aren't particularly electrically sensitive ,they fire at low (300+-rpm) & require virtually 0 maintenance......sounds like a win ,,win ??
     
  15. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,672

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As originally built, the magnets require periodic recharge, the majority did not have and advance, and put out about 1 amp. So as mentioned, an old tired mag is most likely the source of the bad press you hear from guys that did not do enough homework before installing one. Upgrading to rare earth magnets as mentioned by Lippy eliminate the need for periodic recharging and boosts the output to the 1.8 to 2 amp range. Advance plates are available in 7 or 12 degree advance (mag degrees), so you can add in 14 or 24 engine degrees of advance. It's weight controlled, so tend to come in a bit early and not really something you can fine tune, but never been an issue. I sent an old Vertex that was well used but did have a 12 degree plate in it and sent it to Spud Miller for the rare earth magnet upgrade and an overhaul and couldn't be happier with the mag or the service from Spud. For street use you need to know: that you need a stout kill switch; solid core plug wires; run 0.018" to 0.022" spark gap; the mag isn't compatible with any electronics or your radio; you need a buzz box to time it. So it depends on just what you are putting together and your personal tastes if a mag is right for you. I know several guys that went with the fake mag because they could not live without a radio and / or had electronic controls that they wanted to run. They have had some reliability issues with the fake mags.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
  16. Stan Back
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 2,178

    Stan Back
    Member
    from California

    In the early 60s, Mallory had a mag called an Mini-Mag. We had two of them – one street version and one race version for our drag roadster. The street version had a coil and a "magic box" full of electric devices (you can tell I'm real big on electrical parts). They were supposed to help start at slow cranking speeds. I ended up with three of them years later. I took them to Scotty's house where he had an early distributor machine so he could select the right one for me. We opened the boxes and all three had different elements. One of them burned up on his machine. I ended up using a stock points ignition.
     
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  17. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    FYI, the FAA generally requires 2 mags for redundancy. Wonder why that is? I am not arguing that they are reliable, but they do have some drawbacks. The rare earth magnets are the best thing to do to one. I am getting ready to send mine out in the near future and that is on the list.

    Oh and FYI, even bad mags that won't fire can bring you to your knees....ask me how I know.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  18. All thing mechanical do and will fail... Really bad things happen when your engine dies a couple thousand feet in the air.
     
  19. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,029

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    Many older Harley motorcycles use a magneto..! Try kick starting your small Chevy.

    1. Freshen the magnets, as has been said, rare earth magnets. And-or the OXC, separate coil.
    2. New cap and rotor
    3. Solid core plug wires
    4. A heavy gauge ground (shutoff) wire. I used to use a...spark plug wire.
    5. A heavy duty switch for grounding the mag. NOT...as part of the "cars" electrical system.

    Mike
     
  20. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    I understand. I work for the FAA, as the Quality Control Inspector Manager. It was a tongue in cheek statement.
     
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  21. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,212

    Elcohaulic


    Get a stock points distributor an use it to trigger a CD box... This set up can't be beat..

    I never cared for things that are fake...
     
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  22. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Hey Root, if you really want to piss yourself, (Don't know why you would but)... Grab a plug wire on a D John deere when cranking to start. While the impulse is making that clacking noise. :p WOW.
     
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  23. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,707

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Years ago ('60s-'70s) ran a Vertex on the street with no mag-related issues on several different motors, & would do so again if the vehicle was not subject to the current emissions regulations( meaning that anything HAMB friendly would be in the "clear"!!)
     
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  24. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    I was standing at the speed shop spinning my vintage Vertex to prove it wouldn’t fire....welp, it made a fool of me. The guys at the counter were amused though.
     
  25. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    There is a relay kit available so that a standard ignition start switch can be used, so the need for a separate mag kill is un-necessary
     
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  26. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,798

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Keep talking Lippy, these are going to be my retirement. IMG_5053.JPG
     
  27. Harv
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 974

    Harv
    Member
    from Sydney

    Agree - pretty simple to integrate a magneto into a "normal" keyed ignition switch. Easy to do without a kit. Use the old coil +12V line to drive the signal side of a normal, autoparts shop 12V relay. Use the switched (high amp) side of the relay to make/break the earth connection to the maggie P post. Use a normally close relay, good quality. No power to the old coil line, relay is shut, maggie is earthed, and no firing. Turn the keyed ignition switch on, old coil line has +12V, relay opens, maggie is no longer earthed, and ready to fire.

    If you have fixed timing, it's handy to put a normal toggle switch in parallel to the earth though. Toggle switch off, maggie stays earthed. Turn the key, spin the motor to starting RPM then flick the toggle to let the maggie fire. Gives the engine a few more RPMs so that the fixed timing advance is able to be tolerated on startup. Helps prevent the engine firing early in the compression stroke and trying to run backwards like an old Fergy kero-burning tractor.

    Cheers,
    Harv
     
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  28. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    I've had zero issues an ran one (old Vertex) on a blown 327, Currently own three... Now if you're running no hood an it rains... That's another story..
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  29. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 3,518

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I spent big $$$ to get one recharged , advance installed , correct mag tach and ign switch to ground it . It wasn’t much for everyday driving . The electronic high energy ignition , with a vacuum advance is the best bang for the buck for your street driving . It’s really tough to beat , proven by millions of cars driven billions of trouble free miles . I agree nothing looks better , keep the hood closed and enjoy driving it and not tinkering with it .
     
  30. Besty34
    Joined: Sep 9, 2010
    Posts: 409

    Besty34
    Member

    I was given a Joe Hunt mag/hei that had kept failing, I’m no mag or even electrical wizard but I figured the coil was killing the Mallory module so I removed the coil, made a spacer to replace it and fitted a standard 12v coil with a ballast resister. I drilled through the base of the mag and ran the ht lead through the hole . I run a early Hemi so the mag is at the back of the engine so I could mount the coil out of sight under the dash. I have had this on my car for about 4 years with no problems. [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     

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