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Hot Rods Any machinists that could make a fitting?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by loveoftiki, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. TRENDZ
    Joined: Oct 16, 2018
    Posts: 386

    TRENDZ

    Not so. O ring boss is not nps. -4 o ring boss is 7/16 -20.
    Parker does not make any nps boss fittings. At least not in their industrial catalog.
     
  2. Dave....I’m not kidding I’ve been to several Parker stores...they look at me like I’m speaking Chinese. They have they’re thread pitch templates on the desk..if it’s not on that, they want nothing to do with it. I guess I’ll try again on Monday
     
  3. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 1,525

    Joe H
    Member

  4. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    thinking some more, i would start with an old high head bolt. that would give a place for a wrench, and the high head would allow room for tapping a hole for the 1/8 pipe elbow. cut 27 straight threads up to the head allowing for the jam nut. i can do that. need to get out the book and check major/minor sizes, i think a 1/2' bolt to start, drill 1/8" thru the center
     
  5. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    like this, thats a 1/2" high head old time bolt, minor size is .410, so it would clean up to around .400, which is i think major size you need, havnt got the book out yet. and the 1/8 nipple is there to show there is room for 1/8 threads for the elbow. this will work? IMG_0717.JPG
     
  6. Yes I believe it would I could jam Nut and o ring on the case and what you be great if if the bolt head side was cut for 1/8 -27 NPS and I could bolt that stock 90 on there with that O ring and seal against that head. I have a coupe of those fittings Than I could screw the metal line into that stock 90 fitting
    66F08E0E-41E1-484A-9F26-860BFC9C536E.jpeg
     
  7. 389FEDAF-E088-4C4B-9ECD-35446F64503E.jpeg
    Like this
     
    Boneyard51 likes this.
  8. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 5,506

    continentaljohn
    Member

    Can you draw what in needed blueprint kinda with length and sizes needed thanks. If one is going to machine this part why not just put a 1/8 taper male on the one end for the trans and a 1/8 female for your 90 degree adapter.

    The reason I say this earlier you quoted that lots of c4 transmissions are messed up when folks jam a straight thread into the hole why not use a taper end
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
  9. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 5,506

    continentaljohn
    Member

    How long do you need it and what size hole thru. As you see the one end is machined for a 1/8 taper .415 and you can run a die over it. I also machined a lead-in to help align the die. image.jpg
     
    rusty valley likes this.
  10. toxic waste
    Joined: Dec 18, 2011
    Posts: 383

    toxic waste
    Member
    from Iowa

  11. patsurf
    Joined: Jan 18, 2018
    Posts: 1,025

    patsurf

    c.j.--you have turned (no pun on 'turned')into the machinist 'trouble truck' on a cruise-THE go- to guy!! another beauty--so: shifter,...then trans ...prob a engine- trans adapter next!!
     
    continentaljohn likes this.
  12. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    i cant do npts female threads, no tap, too small to bore
     
  13. moparboy440
    Joined: Sep 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,087

    moparboy440
    Member
    from Finland

  14. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,442

    Boneyard51
    Member

    If you are going the machining route, don’t use a bolt, start with a piece of hex steel, that way you will have plenty of room to drill and tap. Or round material and mill some flats on it.





    Bones
     
  15. derbydad276
    Joined: May 29, 2011
    Posts: 1,336

    derbydad276
    Member

    did you try Metro Bolt & Fastener ?
    19339 glenmore redford ... beech and grand river ...(313) 538-4800
    when I worked there 15 years ago we had a ton of brass
     
  16. doyoulikesleds
    Joined: Jul 12, 2014
    Posts: 306

    doyoulikesleds

    AUTCOOLERLINES1.JPG Ok I dont get it why the fancy adapter are you that atached to the hard line that is there that you cannot bend a new one to reach either the straight or 90 that is avalible
     
  17. Charlietruck62
    Joined: Apr 2, 2019
    Posts: 58

    Charlietruck62

    x2
     
  18. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    https://www.mcmaster.com/straight-thread-pipe-fittings/type~connector/shape~straight/
    Personally I would just use a connector that screws into the transmission and drill the other end of the fitting to accept a copper tube and solder it in. Then drill the fitting you have so the tube fits into it and solder it too. Then trial fit it with an o ring and see how much you need to rotate your fitting to get the correct orientation. Remove it and warm the solder and rotate it. Then you only have the one O ring to deal with. Since you are adding length/leverage, might want to support it so it doesn't rotate loose.
     
  19. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 3,710

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    I think you have that backwards, the case is NSP and they get messed up when someone tries to put NPT fitting in the case!
     
  20. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ace Hardware.
    Put the stock fitting into the transmission, then screw in whatever length pipe nipple you need, then the coupling, then the 90 degree inverted flare. Less than $4 for the fittings. It's Jamaican engineering, but it will get you where you need to go.

    Brass coupling.jpg Brass nipple.jpg
     
  21. dave lewis
    Joined: Dec 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,378

    dave lewis
    Member
    from Nampa ID

    Loveoftiki...

    If you tell me what line you want to run ( inverted flare hard line , -5 push lock hose , just a barb to clamp some auto parts store rubber flex trans line , or whatever flavor of aeroquip type line you like ) ...
    I will be happy to round up the proper adapters for you monday..

    No machining , welding , or tapping the trans case required...

    Easy to ship via u.s. post office..

    Feel free to give me a call...

    831-262-7294..

    Dave


    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  22. dave lewis
    Joined: Dec 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,378

    dave lewis
    Member
    from Nampa ID

    I just went back and looked closely at the pics..

    Out of the case , hard 90 degree turn , into a 5 /16 hard line..

    Please confirm...
    Dave

    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  23. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 6,138

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Bro, don't overthink this. Go to the local Home Depot or Ace, and put this together out of plumbing fittings. I know, it sounds haggard using stuff typically meant for water and household stuff on the car. Trust me on this one, I did on the last C4 I had in my 63 Fairlane and I drove that car 500 miles a week without issue. I even still have it on my Torqueflight. A basic 1/8" NPT nipple, to a 1/8" NPT female to female right angle fitting, and then a 1/8" NPT to 5/16" hose with barbed end. Attach a pice of rubber line ( fuel injection hose works perfect), and you're good to go.

    That identical setup has been bulletproof for me for over 15 years, and is still going strong.
     
  24. metlmunchr
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 861

    metlmunchr
    Member

    The size is said to be 1/8 NPS and also 1/4 NPS at various places within the thread. This needs to be clarified as both sizes were used depending on the specific version of the C4 trans.

    Functionally, this is just a bastard size o ring boss fitting. Bastard because standard ORB fittings have UNF threads where this one has NPS threads.

    From reading thru all the replies, it seem there's some misunderstanding among some folks as to how these fittings seal. Here's a link to a pic of the tool used to cut an ORB port.

    https://www.lanyala.com/scientific-cutting-tools-port-tool-ms16142-reamer-1-2-20-unf

    The small diameter cuts the hole to size for tapping. The slightly larger diameter cuts a counter bore and a chamfer at the entrance to the tapped hole. The largest diameter cuts a spot face so the jam nut on the male fitting has a flat face to tighten against.

    The o ring goes into the counterbored part of the hole and the seal is between the surface of the groove in the male thread and the inner diameter of the counterbore.

    For an effective seal, the diameter and surface finish of the groove in the male thread is critical. An o ring will not seal if installed on a thread. Also, an o ring will not seal by squashing it between two flat surfaces. To form a seal, it has to be captured between two smooth surfaces such that the pressurized fluid can't make the o ring move out of position, and preloaded such that the fluid can't pass the ID or OD of the ring.

    For someone to make the adapter the OP wants, they will need to have the current fitting in hand. As mentioned, the groove dimensions are critical. The axial location of the groove is also critical in that too much thread outboard of the groove could cause the fitting to bottom out before the o ring is seated in the counterbore. And finally, the jam nut is needed for checking the fit on the thread. A nut with a pipe thread isn't something you can just pick up at any fastener house, and although the thread may be cut to book tolerances, checking the fit with the nut verifies the two pieces will work together. There are no standards for oddball stuff like this, so the only sure way to get good parts is to have what you want to copy readily at hand.

    If I was making the part, I'd use a piece of free machining round stock like 1144 as it will thread and groove with nice slick finishes as well as having high strength. Cut the thread and groove, and that end is done. On the opposite end, just drill and tap for a regular tapered pipe thread. A male pipe x inverted flare ell is a $4 part so there's no need to go to the trouble of making an ORB type port just so the original ell can be used. Obviously a hole gets drilled thru the stock as well, but that's a minor detail.
     
  25. metlmunchr
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 861

    metlmunchr
    Member

    According to some of the mustang forums, screwing a tapered male pipe thread into the existing hole has a good chance of cracking the case by the time the fitting is tight enough to seal.

    Just a wild guess, but this odd fitting may be the result of Ford running into problems cracking cases on the assembly line. With a bit of fixturing, existing cases could be modified from tapered to straight pipe threads and the counterbore for the o ring added in 5 minutes or less. With the volumes of parts the car makers buy, the mating fitting wouldn't have cost them any more than a standard ORB fitting.

    Once the fix was known to work, there was no need to change from the NPS fitting to a standard ORB fitting. That would've created another separate part number, and in the late 60s it cost car makers about $7500 per year to maintain a single part number in the parts system even if they didn't sell a single unit of that number.
     
  26. I was just thinking of a piece of stock 1"-2" long like he needs, threading one end for straight thread and the other for pipe.
     
  27. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 595

    Ericnova72
    Member
    from Michigan

    It's not an odd-ball fitting...and Ford wasn't the only one using them....nearly all domestic aluminum case automatic transmissions from the early 1960's up into the 1990's or later use NPS fittings with either a hard fiber sealing washer or a copper crush washer. A rubber O-ring is not correct.
    Uneducated guys have just been screwing them up for years shoving common NPT fittings in them because they didn't know there was a difference. I've welded up more than half a dozen cases over the years from guys mistakenly putting NPT-to-AN adapters in so they can run braided hose on their hotrod/racecar....when they overtighten the NPT fitting trying to stop a slight leak it splits the line boss in the aluminum case like a log splitter cracking a log
    Mostly PowerGlide's and TH-400's, since those are the most popular for race use, but I've fixed a SBF C-6 and TH-350's too.
     
  28. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,413

    southcross2631
    Member

    I still have that stick shift bellhousing. No cooler lines needed.
     
    RICH B likes this.
  29. TRENDZ
    Joined: Oct 16, 2018
    Posts: 386

    TRENDZ

    This is the type of answer needed.
    Sometimes people don’t know how much they don’t know.
    1B180293-61E2-4ED0-8D6F-6BC436E66C39.jpeg
     
    continentaljohn likes this.

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