Technical Vin number

I have a titled 1934 Ford. It has been titled by three previous owners with the same vin number. When I took it apart I realized that from what I could see that the number was different
It's a Michigan title. If I go to sell, do you see Any problems?

 

not if you find another sucker like you and the last few guys, who didn't bother to check the number

 

Does that number match the transmission?

 

I think you will need to figure out where the VIN you and two other previous owners came from. Is there a firewall or door post tag? Then, the VIN is likely based on that. If there is no VIN matching what is on your title AND you've got different numbers on the frame, I think you may have a problem. Oh, and, technically, it's not a VIN number it's just a VIN. Vehicle Identification Number, not Vehicle Identification Number Number. But, that's just being a smart ass, I know.

 

I suppose everyone takes apart the car to find the numbers before buying! I really don't need input like yours-- Thank you

 

I am not in Michigan but here in Missouri the only time you have a numbers inspection is when you buy a car from out of state. So if I have a car that the title don't match the numbers (not that I would have one like that ) I know that I cannot sell it out of state.

There are ways around that problem but most of them I would not suggest that you do. Most of us that are real hoodlums have done it but I still would not suggest it.

 

The numbers are on top of frame. The ones on top above steering box aren't legible.

 

I think Squirrel meant to advise you, somewhat backhandedly in a traditional HAMB jibe, that you might well have a problem because you didn't confirm the VIN number prior to purchase. Of course, very few would actually do this, but that doesn't mean it isn't what should have been done. Best.

 

I've passed on several Model A's because the engine number didn't match the number on the title. So the only way to verify the Vin would have been to pull or at least lift the body to check the Vin. I guess who ever ended up buying these Model A's was willing to take a leap of faith that the title number actually matched the frame number but not me.

 

You have a title in hand and a frame with different numbers, the logical thing to do is ether apply for a new title, that in itself can be risky if the frame has been stolen at one time you could end up being the looser or you could re-stamp the frame with the numbers to match your title.

It's a questionable practice but it has been done hundreds of times when people purchase a car without a title, generally the title is from a salvage yard and the car in question is purchased from a individual living in a state that does no require a title. HRP

 

VIN started being used on a large scale in '54 - numbers that you see are manufacture, or similar, numbers

 

Hey..you asked!

but seriously...it sounds like there is a number on the car somewhere that does match the title, is this correct? and that there is also another number on the car somewhere, that does not match the title. This is what I infer from your post, but you didn't say this, so we have to guess. This is not a good way to get help.

Without knowing where these numbers are, it's really hard to answer your question. It might be that there is no problem at all, or it might be a serious issue. Again, without more info, we can only make wild guesses.

 

I agree with Jim. Surely there is a number somewhere, maybe even a cowl tag where the title number came from. If it were me, I would find that number and take HRP's advice on the rest.

 

PCV is "positive crankcase ventilation", so PCV valve is correct.

 

Isn't this what happens when someone buys a title off the bay and uses it?

 

Hot water heater .

 

a 34 ford "should" have numbers near the steering box, you say are not legible, and on top the drivers frame rail, not there if its a pickup frame, and on the rear cross member, which i've never seen, and on the transmission. no rivet on tags with numbers. its extremely unlikely that the car has made it 75 years without ever had a trans swap, so its not unusual that doesnt match. people didnt used to care about it. every state is different, so if you care you need to call your state and ask what to do about it. here, they would have it inspected, and if numbers are legible and not showing up as being on another car or stolen!!! they would use the ford vin. if not legible, they issue a new state ID number, stamped on an aluminum tag you rivet to your car. but, thats here, not in Michigan.

 

First off, the "VIN" system was not created until 1981, so the proper term for the numbers on your title and frame is "Serial Number", not "VIN". (and you thought the spelling Nazis were a pain).
Secondly, to answer your original question, yes, you have a problem, in fact a serious problem as you have a title with no car and a car with no title. Depending on the laws of your state, if you try to sell the vehicle you have using the title you have you may be committing a felony.
Third, to all, verify the title matches the vehicle before you buy, not after. A quick check with the "Ford Barn" told me the vehicle serial number is stamped on the driver's side frame rail in three different locations. if you have to disassemble the vehicle to find a readable number then put on the "man pants" and get it done. Yes, I'm breaking your balls just a little but you should count yourself lucky; if, after years of effort and untold amounts of money you had finished the vehicle and on your maiden drive got stopped by the cops and the officer decided to verify the vehicle registration, the car could have been impounded and disassembled, then once they found out the vehicle registration and serial numbers didn't match you would not only be guilty of operating an illegally registered vehicle you couldn't get it out of impound because you didn't have a legal title.

 

Don't shit on squirrel because YOU didn't verify the number.

This is "Car Buying 101" and yes, you have a problem. It's called fraud if you knowingly sell a car with the "wrong" title.
.

 

The "problems" are going to be more for the buyer getting new paper than for the seller getting free of the problem. If you decide to tell the potential buyer of the issue or if the buyer cares enough to ask the right questions, yea, a sale could be lost. So it depends.
Naturally, a title transfer within Michigan is not as likely to have as close a scrutiny as an out of state transfer. Some states have much tougher regs than others so again, it depends.
I would just list it for sale as is and let what I might have to do later to close a sale develop naturally. I wouldn't create work I didn't have to do before I knew it was needed. I recently sold a truck that had all Chevy bodywork and a GMC title. The buyer didn't care and his state didn't care either.

 

One of my many jobs is to verify a VIN on a vehicle or PIN on a heavy duty machine.
The older vehicles have a Serial number, 7 or 10 digits from the factory. This is normally located in two different spots on the vehicle. One is normally stamped in the upper flange on the left frame rail (don't forget that Ford uses a * star before and after the number. These numbers are HAND stamped and usually don't line up very well. Depending on the year of the vehicle ther second VIN(vehicle identification number) most people say VIN number I ask how long they have had the stuttering problem.
OP: where was the VIN that did not match the title?
make and model of the subject vehicle?
does the title number match a number on the engine?
Unreadable VIN on the frame? Is it ground down or just rusted?
I have "brought up" many VIN stampings that appeared to be unreadable.

 

The car could have been titled to a visible engine serial number when VINs came into use, and the engine was subsequently changed out .

I've seen lots of Model As titled to their engine serial number, because that was what the inspector could verify at the time they assigned a VIN. They had no interest in pulling the body off what they perceived as a worthless old Ford.

Of course, when they do that, they are supposed to create a matching body tag. But they didn't always follow through on that. Because again, who cared? At the time it was a worthless old Ford.

 

I have an old Ford where the title number matches the transmission, not the frame. At some time the trans must have been changed, and they made the title match that number.

 

Is the number on the title a Ford based serial number such as 18-xxxx like what is stamped on the frame or just some random number. It it is more of a random number then it is most likely a state assigned number from days gone by.


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At the time on manufacture on 1934 Ford cars the transmission pad number was stamped on the left frame rail in three places...Close to the steering box,,,,Mid frame around the (B) pillar and around the rear crossmember...

 

Jalopy Joker: I don't want to start a urinating contest but I need to remind you not everything posted on the internet is true. If you had bothered to scroll down to the section marked "other questions asked" you would find that as I have said, the VIN system started in 1981, before that time manufactures could use whatever identification system they wanted, including the number of digits and other symboles (like the "star" Ford used at the beginning and end of their serial numbers). I've learned not to trust anybody or anything without verifying the information from several other sources.

 

we can squabble all we want to about what the term VIN really means, when it started, etc. But modern titles have a place for a VIN, and they don't have a place for a serial number, engine number, or anything else, at least in AZ, they don't. So it seems that while the "real" VIN thing started in 1981, or 1954, or whenever you might think, it is now accepted that the term Vehicle Identification Number means the number that's on the car, that the state uses on the title and registration.

It's not worth arguing about.

But we did get a good question, which I'm curious to know the answer to....

 

There is a question like this on Hamb all the time, why just the other day it seemed like Jim answered a guy seemingly from Britain that bought a Lincoln from Missouri and wanted to know how to get it through customs. What is the price too good to pass up on these cars? I have had my share of untitled cars and dealt with this problem, but I knew it from the start. In NY they started "titles" in 73. Before that it was registrations that proved ownership and are used to transfer the vehicle (sell). If you have no registration you can take a tracing of the VIN/Serial number and apply for a registration. They will register the car and you get a "Non-transferable" registration. After 6 months or less when they check the records you will get a transferable registration IF there is no problem. Then you can sell it or keep on driving. Each state is different and your playing Russian roulette if you are not on top of your game in buying these cars. Like I have always told my kids "look it up and do your homework" Best advice one could give is don't ask VIN/Title/ Registration questions on Hamb.

Pat

 

I do. Every time.