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Hot Rods Cars for sale, or are they?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Vonn Ditch, May 8, 2020.

  1. You can't ask a sky high price though and expect to get offers. If its too much out of range people will think you are nuts and just move on without looking. I just saw an ad on craigslist for a 53 Chevy sedan that did not run, had flat tires broken window, bad chrome , just a solid looking project or parts car and they wanted over $5000 for it. You could buy a nice running one for that or less so I doubt it will sell.
     
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  2. dserge
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 47

    dserge
    Member
    from WV

    Thanks Gman. hopefully someone will like it enough to buy it.
     
  3. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,528

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

     
  4. Country Joe
    Joined: Jan 16, 2018
    Posts: 517

    Country Joe
    Member

    This, I believe is where I am at with my car. I know the price is fair for the quality but ,the car itself (36 Dodge sedan) is not a desirable car. However, I just keep it out there thinking the right person might see it and ask about it. In the mean time, the car doesn't cost me anything to store. Just be nice to make some space.
     
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  5. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,959

    Jimbo17
    Member

    I feel sorry for anyone who has had their car posted for sale and is not able to find a buyer.
    There are cars listed for a year to many years which simply got bumped back up the list.

    The old saying the" handwriting is on the wall" is true and either your priced your car wrong or you really do not want to sell and just like looking at the photo of it for sale.
    I understand they you have way more money in the car then the for sale price but that is not the fault of someone looking to buy the car.

    I have friends who spend a small fortune on their dream car only to realize that they will never recover their small fortune in their lifetime.

    It is almost the same as when someone buys a stock and when the price drops they refuse to sell the stock because to do so would mean they paid to much for it in the first place.
    Some people have a very hard time realizing their mistakes and then accepting it.

    Jimbo
     
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  6. dserge
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 47

    dserge
    Member
    from WV

    5window, I didn't post anything but the 2 classified adds because I don't really ever say much. I enjoy reading what the other guys have to say. I just recently retired and I will have more time to chat now. I sold my Corvette and I am selling my 35 Chevy because I just bought another hot rod I will post something on it later. Thank you for saying you think it is reasonably priced. If someone really wanting a hot rod would look at my 35 they would buy.
     
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  7. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    Be patient. Read my post on page 6 about my 63 Impala. Took a year to get my price. I wouldn't be in a rush to drop your price. You can always come down if you get an offer but you can't go up.

    $19,500 is not a lot for a running, driving car.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
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  8. dserge
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 47

    dserge
    Member
    from WV

    Gman, I did read your post on page 6 , and I wanted to tell you it made me feel better.
     
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  9. Seems the buying public isn't sharing your view....
     
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  10. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    dserge how long has your 35 Chevy been for sale?
     
  11. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,959

    Jimbo17
    Member

    I think the times we are in today with the coronavirus and the economy play a big roll in how people are spending their money and may play a roll in why old cars are not selling as fast as they used to.

    With some business closed and other handing on by their fingernails and unemployment high people tend to sit on their money and are reluctant to make any major purchase.

    I mean it's not just collector cars that are selling slowly it's new cars too and they are offering in some cases a zero interest rate for years trying to entice people to buy a new car.
    It is a combination of things affecting all of us and only time will tell who survives and stays in business and many others that will find a new way to produce their income.

    Another strange thing is because cars are selling slowly there is no urgency to make a purchase because many people feel the car market is going lower anyway.
    Many things in life are seemly trending lower and this list includes drag racing, stock car racing, and other types of sports.
    Anyone selling a car must decide am I willing to wait to sell my car even it takes 5 years or more or do I need the money for other things more then I need the car?
    The choice is yours.
    Jimbo
     
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  12. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,770

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If the car is well built and a desirable model it will sell-it if is a so-so car then not so much. We looked at a lot over the years for sale as have many of you. If it's just middle of the road type it is no more than a core to me-"has it all-needs it all" as my better half would say.
    What is strange around here is shops are booked out with builds now more than ever and my friend who has a shop that sells parts is busier than he has been in the past few years and my friend as well who does wheels and tires. Someone is spending money and many of these build are well above $100K
    I know folks who would step up right now for a top end 40-get calls quite often.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  13. Seon
    Joined: May 26, 2005
    Posts: 346

    Seon
    Member

    It's a buyer's market right now.
    For those who says, "Wait..." reminds me of the old saying, "Weight is what broke the wagon down". LOL.

    In all seriousness, I'm sure we all have at times bought an item low, then afterwards when said item sells one may make a couple of dollars but at times one may take a loss. My thought on this is that it all comes out in the wash... it's a give and take proposition.
     
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  14. trikejunkie
    Joined: Dec 2, 2011
    Posts: 220

    trikejunkie
    Member
    from Scotland

    Here is a different slant on the topic......no advert for stuff for sale but someone posts an ad "looking for a".......whatever vehicle.Done this three times -Harley Shovelhead FL ,Indian Chief 1948 and an early Evo Harley .I had these sitting doing nothing -so a guy asks to buy my Shovelhead(saw it on FB)ok I says how about two Shovelheads running ,solid only needing brakes? £10,000 ,ok send me videos ,send me pictures tell me everything there is to know ...a week into this then "too expensive" .....queue tumbleweed blowing............ I now send him whats apps of every Shovelhead that comes up on ebay last one was £8000 ! :) exact same with both other bikes -now I am keeping them lol
     
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  15. Seon
    Joined: May 26, 2005
    Posts: 346

    Seon
    Member

    Another thought is that our hobby is dying out.
    Today's trend the young generation doesn't wrench like we use to. They'll buy foreign cars, put loud pipes, put wheels and tires, lower them and do donuts.
    When I stopped going to cruise nights at the A&W burger lot, the younger crowd started attending with souped up VWs, Toyotas, Hondas and their loud Boom Box. Nothing against them, it's just wasn't my cup of tea.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
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  16. PRE48V-8
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 730

    PRE48V-8
    Member
    from H.G., CA

    ....which 'buying public' are you referring to? The 'buying public' encompasses a lot of different characters with varied perspectives, some objective & others subjective. Example: Most domestic vehicles built in 1942 are arguably less popular but as a matter of fact even less common than vehicles manufactured in 1957. Using a '42 Mercury vs. a '57 Chevy for comparison, you'll find more '57 Chevy's out in the enthusiast market place for sale than '42 Merc's by FAR, in both quantity of models and quality. Also true is that the availability of used parts and/or aftermarket reproduction parts for both of these vehicles is vastly different; Odds are a 'buyer' looking for '57 Chevy cars/parts will have better success finding what they are looking for in terms of 'price point' (i.e., what they are willing to pay, what they feel it's worth, etc.) than another fellow automotive enthusiast looking for '42 Ford cars/parts.

    Phrases like, "It's worth what the market will bear", "You can always lower the price, but you can't raise it", "Value is in the eye of the beholder" and "the sweetness of low price quickly fades when the bitterness of low quality set in" are all part of the interplay between buyers/sellers of cars & their related parts. So, if your restoring/modifying a '57 Chevy & funds aren't infinite, chances the market will likely have a lot of parts available for purchase of varying cost & quality, both reproduction/original. On the other hand, if you are restoring/modifying a '42 Merc. and need a front grille unique to this specific make/model that is anything but common, you're not going to have the market availability to cars/parts both reproduction/original. Fact is, the odds are 'slim & none' you'll find and original N.O.S. grille assembly and only slightly better you'll find a decent, useable one to bolt onto the front end. So the question is, "What's it worth?". Or, consider what's been offered on this thread, "How long should a car/part be listed?"

    If you need a '42 Merc. grille assemlby that is useable, you've got to find a decent one to buy first. If you've got a good one to sell, there's only a small, specialized group of enthusiasts who may need it. So the dilemma in this example is, "When you need a '42 Merc. grille, you can't find one, but when you have a '42 Merc. grille to sell, you can't find a buyer". So what's the '42 Merc. grille worth? How long is it appropriate to list it for sale on an automotive based web page? If you've been looking high & low for a part that you want in a particular condition, you'll probably pay a certain amount for it based on either expectation and/or need (colored by one's budget, of course). If a seller has one available & gives up listing it, how's a fellow enthusiast going to find it? They're not. So in many respects, one could argue selling cars/parts on an enthusiast base web page is a matter of 'broadcasting' over a wide group of like minded folks as opposed to 'marketing' to a large marketplace to make money. It's not always about sellers asking 'too much' supported by the perception of the majority of the community. Using the example of the '42 Merc. grille, one who needs that grille will obviously pay $20 for that grille without hesitation. They would probably likely pay $500 for an N.O.S. examples as well, because front grille assembly's are large part of any car's character (custom builds not-withstanding).

    With all this being said, everybody wants a deal. Some of us 'score' on a car/part, while others have thought they 'scored' & later find they 'paid a little for a lot of nothing'. Others have paid the asking price for a car/part (or negotiated a slightly lower sale price with the seller) and got exactly what they wanted with no regrets. There is 'popular & plentiful', 'rare & unique' and always there's been "an ass for every seat". The former finds takers in the open marketplace more quickly that the later more often than not in an environment of "straight shooters", "squares", "serious parties", ''low-ballers", "tire-kickers", "newbies", 'know-it-alls", "jack of all trades, masters of none" and the like. But at the end of the day, what folks think about a car/part (worthless, unpopular, poor quality, rare, desirable, etc.) in terms of it's sales value does come in to play (but not always for the same reasons). Sometimes it just takes a long time for a seller to find a buyer. But as noted by a previous post in this thread by a fellow H.A.M.B.'er, it seems we're more likely to hear more opinions about how unreasonably priced cars/parts are listed for in the classifieds as opposed to critiquing how other cars/parts are listed for prices that are too low. I wonder why that is?.......Does it really matter? If you don't like the program you're watching on T.V. or listening to on radio, then change the channel. That program will still be broadcasting after you switch it off because other people might be interested in watching or listening to it, whether you liked it or not. But that's just my opinion...

    Let's all try to keep it positive, supportive & informative here in the H.A.M.B. community (with occasional well-intended constructive criticism when warranted)...PRE48V-8\;^]
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
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  17. dserge
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 47

    dserge
    Member
    from WV

    If this car is not worth $19,500.00 I will use it for yard art. ( I don't mean to sound like an ass ) I have only had it for sale for about 6 weeks and only used HAMB , Racing junk, and Face Book so far. I have the car I just bought stored at a friends house ( very short term). I sold my Corvette so from a space stand point I can keep it if it doesn't sell. This is one of the least expensive completed hot rods on HAMB. I have had hot rods and built hot rods for over 40 years and this car is well worth the money, IF you like a 1935 Chevy Sedan.
     
    Thor1 likes this.
  18. Hey, don't shoot the messenger. It's not me telling you it's not worth 19,500, it's all the potential buyers out there that haven't pulled the trigger, telling you that. And as far as having to like a 1935 Chevy sedan for it to be worth 19,500, let me ask this. When's the last time you bought something you didn't like? I don't hear a lot of people say, "Hey I don't really like this car, but I bought it just because it was worth it". Most people buy what they like, for a price they think is fair. When those two conditions are met, the result usually ends in a sale. Whether it takes 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years it's still gonna boil down to what the buyer is willing to pay, and the seller is willing to let it go for. And in the end, that will be what a 1935 Chevy sedan is worth.
     
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  19. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 6,540

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    It is “perspective “. If I wanted to spend $20,000 , I would plan out two or three cars I would actually want , get a project body and or frame and start building. Do I want somebody else’s vision? Probably not. I would rather build it to my specs and know what has been done to it. Just me. I cannot see ever buying someone else’s vision then taking apart or rebuild to what I want . Might as well do it myself.
     
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  20. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    Building a car has no purpose in a discussion of a seller trying to sell a running driving 35 Chevy. Newbie's to the old car hobby frequently buy running driving cars as they have no "specs " or know how to build a car.

    I have a soft spot in my heart for 35 Chevy tudor sedans as I built and sold one back in the early nineties. Maybe times are now different and tudor 35 Chevy streetrods are not as popular as they once were. There is also no question the streetrod market is down and 47 million Americans are on unemployment. Those problems did not exist in the 90's.

    Six weeks on the for sale market is not very long. If no offers are forthcoming the seller may have to reduce his price. Time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
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  21. dserge
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 47

    dserge
    Member
    from WV

    RJP, You stated the point I was making, "Most people buy what they like, for a price they think is fair."
    Maybe the right guy hasn't come along that wants a 35 Chevy. If a guy likes that body style I don't think he would think the asking price is to high.
     
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  22. PRE48V-8
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 730

    PRE48V-8
    Member
    from H.G., CA


    ....and who are the 'potential buyer's'? Are they all cut from the same cloth? Do the members' of this community of 'potential buyer's' all possess an objective wealth of automotive enthusiast based car building experience, knowledge, expertise and wisdom equivalent to one another, cumulatively capable of making a final ruling from their lofty perch to ultimately judge the value of one vehicle for sale compared to another? Other 'potential buyer's' exist outside of the social sphere of this particular web page who may or may not be aware of any vehicle for sale at any point in time on this enthusiast based web page. Again, how long is it supposed to take for a buyer & a seller to find each other and complete a sales transaction? It's a relative matter that's not always going to be 'cut & dry", 'black & white" or any other Chinese fortune cookie message/bumper stick slogan phrase you want to use to describe the process of listing a car or part for sale here on the H.A.M.B. or anywhere else. Some things may have a better chance of selling for a certain price on one platform vs. another. Nowadays a car or part can be listed by an automotive enthusiast on a plethora of electronic media platforms via images & text or in person at a local/major parts swap (when a virus pandemic isn't an issue).

    Suffice to say there's a few H.A.M.B.'ers who've had the occasion to sell a cars/parts they've acquired during their time in the automotive hobby and no longer need here on the H.A.M.B. or on another auto enthusiast electronic media platform and may have experienced different types of responses during the selling process. Many times the conversation starts off with, "What's the lowest price you'll accept?" when the question should be, "You're asking 'X' price for your car/part; Would you be willing to accept my offer of 'Y' price for your car/part?". And that's only after the "potential buyer" had done some research on the vehicle (i.e., read the sales ad description & then reached out to the seller with any questions/concerns about what they saw and read in the ad). Traditionally, that's how transactions have been conducted, the 'make an offer & receive either a counter offer or refusal of your initial offer". And it's been my personal experience that the responses and tenor/tone of the responders to a car/part for sale can vary by a wide margin at times, depending on the circumstances and the 'characters' involved (just like at a live swap meet swap space).

    If one doesn't think a vehicle isn't worth the asking price listed by the buyer, especially if they aren't looking for one in the first place and are merely sharing their potentially uninformed opinion or judgement about what they feel a particular automobile is worth, why should they care? As I stated earlier, no matter what type of 'potential buyer" one may be, If you don't like what you see, then change the channel. If someone else wants to see it, they'll switch that channel on & if they are interested in what they see on the screen, they'll contact the seller. Whether a fellow enthusiast thinks another fellow enthusiast is selling their car properly and for a fair price, or if they paid the right price for a car they bought or paid too much is nobody's business & therefore arguably irrelevant. Isn't it enough to look at cool and/or unique stuff and just simply dig what you like or casually say to yourself, "not my cup of tea, but to each their own" & move on to the next thing that might interest or inspire you? Besides, in life, isn't it true that sometimes it takes awhile to find the right companion? Could it be possible that it is true in a similar fashion that it takes time for some cars to find a new owner? What isn't right for most might be right for some and vice-versa. Let the ad run at the sellers convenience, not the "potential buyers" convenience. Or, just follow Lee Iacocca's advice; "If you can find a better car for a cheaper price, then buy it!" Otherwise, keep it to yourself & move on (or save it for a topic of discussion during the monthly meeting of overpriced car seller haters-just kidding!) Only my humble opinion; Hope it brought some perspective and added to the conversation (or possibly a chuckle and maybe a forehead furrow....PRE48V-8\;^]
     
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  23. To a seller, anybody, anywhere, should be treated as a "potential buyer". You don't have to be a hotrodder to buy a hotrod. Just like you don't have to be a sailor to buy a yacht, or a pilot to buy a Lear Jet. Bottom line is, a "potential buyer" doesn't give a damn what the seller thinks it's worth, all that matters to him is what he thinks it's worth at the time he's thinking about it. If he feels it's fair, he'll buy. If he doesn't he won't.
     
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  24. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 6,540

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    I disagree with “building a car serves no purpose on selling a car. “ It does in my case and I am sure there are others. It’s called perspective . I am sure there are quite a few hambers that would rather build than buy. Look at all the build threads and projects a lot of us have going. Perspective applies as well to buying someone else’s car wether the sellers vehicle matches with what a buyers thinks is done correctly or not. Wiring , body/paint , engine/transmission and work quality .
     
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  25. PRE48V-8
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 730

    PRE48V-8
    Member
    from H.G., CA

    ....to be certain, as you said, "...To a seller, anybody, anywhere, should be treated as a 'potential buyer'.". By that definition as long as one has a heartbeat, is breathing and has cash money to spend (whether or not they're on life support, lucid or fully alert I cannot say) they, too should be treated as a 'potential buyer' by the seller (technically speaking, of course).....

    On it's face it seems correct that a 'potential buyer' doesn't need,"to be a hotrodder to buy a hotrod.". Folks from all different backgrounds, walks of life, skill sets, expertise & foundations of knowledge could be attracted to a seller's car they've listed on the open market for sale based on this critical analysis. So in this case, does the 'potential buyer' who happens to not be a 'hotrodder' become one once they consider buying a hot rod? Or does this happen whey they decide to back off from 'pulling the trigger' when their gut tells them it's not worth the seller's asking price, let alone worthy of a lower offer based on their subjective opinion. After all, "the 'potential buyer' doesn't give a d#%& what the seller thinks it's worth...", right? Surely, this has to be the point the 'potential buyer' who doesn't care what a seller thinks the car they're listing for sale is worth makes the transition to becoming a 'hotrodder'. But wait a minute, let's back the train up. Why would you think the seller gives a s#%& what a 'potential buyer' whose isn't a 'hotrodder' (bought their car, built their car, car builder by trade, etc.) thinks what the correct or fair asking price for their car should be? Or, even of the 'potential buyer' is a hotrodder, why should the seller care?

    We're entitled to our own opinions, but they aren't always based on real facts & figures. Hence the phrase, "not my cup of tea", or, "to each their own" which comes from a subjective perspective ("what I think", or a, "gut feeling"). No matter what others think or feel, you're entitled to not like something, which is different than the value of it (I don't like pistachio ice cream, I like raspberry sherbert. But they cost the same per scoop whether or not I like the pistachio flavor). An opinion based on real facts & figures would be, "I wouldn't pay X-dollars for that kind of car, but you couldn't build it for that much money." instead comes from a more objective perspective (i.e., based on facts, figures & experience). So how could any 'potential buyer' other than a reasonably knowledgeable enthusiast (i.e., hotrodder) whose a regular visitor/member of an automotive enthusiast based web site (and one themselves) where a vehicle has been listed assess any vehicle for sale there and consider 'pulling the trigger' in a manner that any enthusiast seller (i.e., hotrodder) would care to even consider? Try telling a H.A.M.B. member that you like the car they have for sale but you think it's only worth half their asking price (right after telling them your a mineralogist by training & never owned a hot rod before). What response do you think that 'potential buyer' is going to receive from that seller? "You are obviously uninformed, Sir"; "Pound Sand", or "radio silence"?

    A pilot with a private passenger jet flying background, a sailor who sails & maintains a 40-ft. yacht or a session guitar player who uses a circa 1930's Martin acoustic model will have a much better idea of values/worthiness of the planes they fly in the sky, the boats they sail on the open seas or the guitars they play in recording sessions than a 'potential buyer' looking to buy a jet plane to fly, a boat to sail or a guitar to strum who is defined as "anybody from anywhere". So, yeah, it's true you don't have to, 'be a hotrodder to buy a hot rod' (technically speaking). But most would agree you need to have some knowledge & background in any area of interest (technical skill, hobby or recreational pursuit) before making a decision on what type of tools, parts, materials or equipment to buy to pursue those interests (or how much to pay for them) unless you have an understanding of it's value based on usefulness, cost & availability. Thereby, if one is not a hotrodder, the fact is they know little or nothing about hot rods to even have an objective based opinion on the value of any hot rod, whether they are by definition a 'potential buyer' or not. Again, what is a 'potential buyer' anyway? How can the word 'buyer' even be used if an inquiry or an offer hasn't even been made by a so-called 'potential buyer'? I'd suggest a more appropriate handle such as "tire kicker", "lookie-loo" or "chiseler", but then, maybe not. After all, even these three categories of characters usually make a 'low-ball' offer for the item for sale (just my opinion, of course). Hope this added something worthy to the conversation (but if no one gives a damn about these comments, that's OK)... PRE48V-8\;^]

    "Keep it positive & informative (with constructive criticism when warranted)"
     
  26. Okay, you win. You've convinced me. There is no such thing as a "potential buyer". Sellers should only sell to other sellers. Buyers should only buy from other buyers. If you can't play a guitar, you have no business buying a guitar. If you're not a hotrodder, you can't buy a hotrod. If you're not a pilot, you can't buy a plane. Not a sailor? Get away from the boat. You must have expert knowledge of whatever you do buy. Sellers should demand proof of expert knowledge before a sale is discussed or transacted. And a sale will be withdrawn if seller feels any of these terms have been violated. That about cover it?
     
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  27. Pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 524

    Pistnbroke
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Dang! a lot of interesting aspects to the buying and selling of old cars on here. I like many others have bought and sold a lot of cars over the years. It all comes down to timing. I had a 32-5 window Ford for sale for about a year with little on site interest, I even spent 6 hours with a guy at my shop who I thought was going to buy it, after he wasted my day running VIN history checking engine numbers, on the lift for a couple hours. Hell I thought he was trying to drag it across the border somewhere full of contraband the way he was going over it. By the way I owned the car 15 years and was top notch. He left with about 100 pictures taken and every aspect of the car written down in his note pad. I got scared that he was going to come back some day and steal it. So I relocated it and took it off the market. 6 months later I decided it was time I put it on the the inter web and with in 48 hours I had a stack of cash in my hand and it had a new owner. The new owner spent 20 mins with me and drove about 5 miles in the 99 degree weather with the air on with no issues he said I'll take it. So in the end it all came down to timing he was looking and I had what he was looking for. The price never changed from the day I 1st listed it a year before the only difference was timing.
    Hang in there if you are dead set on a price some day the timing will be right.
     
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  28. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,286

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    True story (not that the rest of them aren't...) my daughter destroyed a nice little OT Volvo I bought for her, 5 speed, 2 door, sun roof, GT something or other, I stuck the total on CL for $1000 as the drive train was all good and a bit of the body was useable. Everyone that came out wanted it for free or offered a couple hundred dollars to tow it off. Cancelled the ad and relisted a week later at $2000 and had a guy offer $1200 for it the first day. You know what Barnum said.
     
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  29. Thanks, it has to be close to NY, I'd hate to travel and be quarantined somewhere for 2 weeks. Partial to tri-5 Chevys, drivetrain not really needed. I'd go OT for the right Chevelle. I have a line on a '62 Bird I should follow up on. But I'd need to garage it and I'm low on space.

    I am considering a NEW Camaro with a 6.2 and a 6-speed if I can get a decent deal, keep it covered on the driveway. It would be something I can drive that has AC and would be reliable... and fast.
     
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  30. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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