Bad news today! Opened the valve covers and pulled the oil pan, drained the chocolate milk and frowned for the past half hour doing so!!
Im thinking maybe it could be, I do see they changed out 2 freeze plugs on the right side of block. So maybe 1 of the heads got blown, but I'm thinking maybe send out both heads and block to make sure no issues and then get those back and rebuild. Want to do it up right the first time!
Good morning folks, I pulled the intake manifold off and took it inside my storage/shop to keep it safe from weather/etc. I took a close look at the head gaskets while not removing the heads, jus to try to see if there was any gaps or loose, broken gasket or cracks anywhere that I hadn't seen before... From what I can see they actually look pretty decent, but since I am no expert I plan to still pull the heads, as I found that there are (forgive me if I say this wrong) "umbrella seals/gaskets" that are suppose to support the push rods under the rocker arms??? Again, if I said that wrong, I am sorry. Just describing what I see. Now, the little umbrella guys are all in pieces and hard as plastic, and the shop I went to last night to ask about these said they were "JUNK" and to replace them is a B***H!! Since I will be pulling the heads off, I may as well have them sent out and resurfaced, yes?? I am thinking to leave the block alone and not mess with pistons, rings, crank shaft and all that. Would that be alright, or am I asking for trouble doing that? I am trying to do this on a fixed budget, I'm honestly not wanting to cut corners by any means, however if there is anything that I can do to save a lot of time and $$$ that will be a big help. Just a reminder, This is my FIRST rebuild!! I've never done a complete engine top to bottom before, so this is why all the questions and is a great learning experience for me. Thanks in advance everybody
When you are trying to describe things like this, keep in mind that a picture tells a thousand words. So, if you can take lots of pictures, showing lots of things, we can "see over your shoulder" and let you know whether the things you're concerned about look OK, and maybe spot problems that you don't notice. you can't tell anything about the head gaskets without taking the heads off. And you can't tell anything about the condition of the cylinders without taking the heads off. Have you tried turning the crankshaft yet? Grab the torque converter, and see if it turns. If not, then you probably are dealing with rust in the cylinders, and that will seriously slow down your progress.... The reason I ask is because normally when removing an engine you will disconnect the torque converter from the flexplate before disconnecting the transmission from it, but this is really hard to do if the engine won't turn, so it's common to just pull the transmission off and leave the converter bolted in place. Again, I suggest not spending any money on new parts or machine work until you know exactly what you have, because if the block is junk you'll just be throwing money away.
Yes the engine turns freely, I grabbed the torque converter before I even bought it and made sure it would turn by hand before I even discussed it with the guy. Looking from inside at the crank with the oil pan off the cylinder walls look clean, I will absolutely take pictures today, it got so late last night that I didn't have time to do so, but yes I always try to add pictures as I go. The intake was missing 2 of the bolts that holds it in place so I will be buying those when time comes to reinstall it. I photographed the intake removal process so as to keep track where things went and label them. I guess today I will try to pull the heads, and take them inside same as I did with he intake. Will post pictures as soon as possible, before I do any more.
Sorry to start the day sounding critical, but it is for the sake of your bank balance. I suggest not going back to that shop. Honestly, I think he was being disrespectful and deceptive. If the crank turns (I'd use a socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt) and after you get the heads off and the cylinders look OK , you might call around and get the price for a valve job. That is where they lightly machine the valve faces and the valve seats in the head. It's possible to do it yourself (maybe google "lapping valves") but you have to buy a valve spring compressor,etc. It is a lot of work, but it is no big deal for a shop with the tools and machines. And they will replace the valve seals at the same time. (Again, no problem) You would only need to have the head resurfaced if it is badly rusted and pitted. You can get a good surface with 220, then 320 grit sandpaper on a block of wood. The heads might not even need a valve job. You could have a shop just remove a couple of valves and look at them. PS: I wrote before I read about your progress. Glad to hear of the condition.
I did a couple threads on overhauling engines the old way...probably not enough info there to be real useful for a beginner, but at least you can see what I decided was needed on them, and how little money I spent ($200 each to get a 292 Ford motor and 346 Cadillac motor running again). yeah, 283 heads usually don't need to be resurfaced. It takes a lot to warp one.
Yeah, I think the useful part of the project is just taking it apart and seeing what it does/doesn't need. You can tell by looking at rod bearings if it's a good idea to replace them while it's apart. Same with main bearings. Some stuff it would be better to do now rather than having to redo it.
Pissed that I was lied to about engine condition!! But actually kinda expected issues since I got it so cheap. Pulled one head so far and tgeres waiter insife the cylinders so yeah it will get sent out and completely redone!! Oh well, learning experience for sure!!
First questions.... How many miles will you put on this engine? How much do you have available to spend on it? Also, the fact that there's liquid water in there, but the engine still turns, makes me think that it might be OK without too much work. You need to sop up the water, and then carefully inspect each bore, with that piston at the bottom, to see if there is evidence of rust pits on the cylinder walls. It really looks pretty good from what I can see, which admittedly isn't much, yet.
Also, when it's time to remove the lifters, please keep them in order. Take some time and find a small box or something that will let you mark on it which position each came from, front to back, side to side, and make sure that each lifter stays with it's position notation. They might be in good condition and not need to be replaced....but if you mix them up, they will need to all be replaced, along with the camshaft. And when it's time to remove the pistons, if you decide to, there are cautions about the connecting rods, that you need to know what you're doing ahead of time.
this might help. It seems to be missing a page...not sure where that went. I used this info when I tore down my first engine at age 14, that was back in 1975.
Not sure if I posted duplicates, but trying to to make sure I share each pic as I go. Wish I knew about keeping in order sooner, but I plan to replace the lifters and rods anyway cus they are all caked with what looks like burned oil maybe or some kind of gunk?? But the cylinders do look clean except for some surface rust, not pitting from what I can see. I'm thinking the pistons should come out and send bare block with heads to be cleaned, honed, bored, and what not. I figure in the long run it will save a lot of headaches just to get it done now rather than break down and NEED it done later. And I plan to put a million miles on it.. Meaning run it til it can't run any more! This is my baby, and my daily driver, so yeah miles galore to be had!
More pics Also, I removed the torque converter. Now getting some lunch, and then pull the oil pan off and bring everything inside
Re: "...actually looks pretty good..." My exact thought before I read it. No sludge. I bet the inside of the valve covers look the same way. Looks like he kept the oil changed. I knew when I read about the "chocolate milk" that there was water where it shouldn't be. I'm guessing it got in through a break in the head gasket. Trying to not think "cracked head". E, send a shot of the plugs if you have them. The more you can do yourself, the less you have to pay for. You can clean the rockers, pushrods, bolts, etc. with oven cleaner, Brillo pads, dishwashing detergent instead of paying $100 an hour for someone else to do it. Squirrel, ain't this fun supervising? (And we don't even have to get dirty. That book looks really helpful. I've only rebuilt two straight sixes, one 4 cylinder, and a V6, so I'm learning too.
When I pulled the oil filter and housing, it was NORMAL color, no water at all, no chocolate milk mix.. Not sure why, but it was all dark brown as its supposed to be. but the oil pan it self was full of water and milky mix...
Hmmmm. Tis a Mr.E. My first thought was that it wasn't run after the gasket failure, but that doesn't make sense. Could it have been rained in? Like the water went through the carb and manifold, and through an open valve into that cylinder? And also through the pushrod holes into the crankcase? Sounds possible.
Yes, I'm not sure what its called but on the intake in front of gooseneck, there's a long tube that was NOT blocked off, and there are a couple of areas that also look like water may have entered. Not sure, but end result still the same! Anyway, I'm now pulling the oil pan, should I pull the pistons or leave them in? Thanks in advance
It's your call on pulling the pistons. If you are going to send the block out for sure, that's money saved if you take them out. New rings are cheap and easy. (And a good idea for a million miles.) My first thought made sense after I thought about it. If the guy turned it off as soon as it started blowing steam, then the oil in the filter wouldn't be contaminated.
I think the "caution" that Squirrel mentioned referred to checking the marks on the rods to make sure which side faces the front of the engine. I don't know if the pistons are marked. PS: edited "wouldn't" above
A 283 is my favorite small block. Ive successfully ring overhauled at least several dozen. If it has umbrella valve seals that's a good indication that the valve to guide clearance is excessive. Rather than spend big dollars on machine work on those heads. Replace them with used heads from a 305 the 602 castings have 58 CC combustion chambers large intake valve and hard valve seats. Since yo already mixed up your lifters. Get the 305 cam and lifters but keep the lifters in order so they can be placed on the original lobes. I use a piece of two by four with holes the same diameter as the lifters drilled in it to keep the lifters organized. Many times when water gets into a cyl. It will hydro lock and bend a rod. rotate your engine to check that all the pistons come up the same distance from the top of the block deck. Go ahead and tear it all the way down and inspect the bearings crank ect. Have the block hot tanked and replace the cam bearings. The most importiant thing is to make certain its clean inside. Run a rifle brush thru every oil galley. Buy those paper shop towels and discard them when the start to get dirty. Time spent cleaning parts is time well spent.
Yes that's to indicate the front. before you pemove them take a punch and mark them one thru 4 . with one mark for number one and two for two ect. Mark the pistons the same way.
There is notch on factory istons the goes towrd the front. (except on 327 truck engines with dished forged pistons) On 283 and some 327 engines there is a oil passage at the bearing parting edge. That points inward so oil is squirted on the opposite cyl wall and cam shaft. the rods have mating faces that must be properly alighned. so a rod on 1357 cyl will be hung opposite of a rod for 2468 cyls.
Mark everything with a punch or number stamps. Don't mix the parts. they are machined and cannot be mixmatched.
Since the fuel pump and mounting plate/drive pencil were removed I would want to make sure the cam lobe for the fuel pump drive is ok.
Pulled them one at a time 1 thru 8 left to right. Will scratch tge ends with screw driver and keep them in order by number
Any major book store will have books on overhauling SBC's. They will have lots of go fast info that you probably don't need, but they will cover the basics too. Public library is also another source. You might try your local community college for classes. That could provide you access to equipment and the guidance to use it that could save you money. At my college they have senior discounts.
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