Projects 1940 Ford 4-door restoration project in Europe

Cool project! That frame is going to keep you busy! The frame on my 35 was bent so I drilled all the rivets and blew it apart to straighten it with a press. I bolted the frame back together and then re riveted it pulling one bolt at a time. I clamped the bucking bar on the back side of the rivet, heated the rivet shank with an oxy acetylene torch, and then hit it with a pneumatic riveter I got off of eBay. It was surplused out of Boing. It’s been a minute, but I think I got my rivets, bucking bar, and rivet setting tools from McMaster Carr. It was fun, not terribly hard and very loud.










I’ve still got some frame chunks sitting around.

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That is good info lewk ! A quick search on the internet showed me this page on the Mc Master Carr site. I have purchased from them several times over the years. Always had good service and decent prices. It is too bad they no longer send out their huge catalog to small operators like me.

https://www.mcmaster.com/buck-rivets

 

Thank you very much for all the information Lewk!
I have noticed that experience with hot riveting of steel rivets is hard to find on the Internet.

Your rivets looks awesome. Have rust do a little work on those rivets and it will look like they are factory
Do you have a build thread on the H.A.M.B. ?

The riveter does not look like it is very heavy. Can you tell me what brand/type it is and what kind of compressor you use please? I'm hoping to find similar tools here in The Netherlands.

Regards,
Chris

 

Here’s my build thread. It’s nothing special, I’m doing stuff the hard way on a tight budget in my spare time. '35 3 Window, Damn Right it was a Good Day
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/index.php?threads/'35-3-Window,-Damn-Right-it-was-a-Good-Day.1015456/

I think the rivet gun is an APT model 300. If I remember right, I paid $75 for it on eBay. Those things are EXPENSIVE new. I did a ton of research before I bought anything and it was kinda hard to find much. It seems like rivets live on airplanes these days. My compressor is a 5 hp craftsman 220 volt with a 15 gallon tank. I ran out of heat in the shank before I ran out of air. As long as the shank was red hot, I doesn’t take much force to rivet. It was fun! I look at old bridges in awe now. It must have been so much work riveting those together.




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Thank you very much Lewk! I really appreciate all your detailed information.

I like your build thread. You are taking on a very big challenge there. The car is in pretty bad shape. It is very inspiring. I can’t wait to see the rest of the build.

Thank you!
Chris


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Today I finished my custom made chassis table. I’m pleased with the result.

I also measured the frame to make sure it is square before I bolted it to the table.



I think the frame is square enough. So with frame secured to the operating table I’m entering the next phase.

The rust damage is now at eye level and I see a lot of cutting and welding work. Especially at the front of the frame.




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Great job on the frame table! I am sure you will find it time and money well spent.

 

I did chassis fabrication/assembly on a 30 inch wide by 6 foot long steel table for 20 years, ('55-'75) always said I'd make a frame jig one day.
When I moved into the large shop in '76, it was time.
Best move I ever made, 2" X 4" main frame, with 2 X 3 optional bolt-ons, 'as I needed them'.
@CJT had the right idea, mine didn't 'rotisserie'. It will get changed, now that I'm 'older and stiffer'!
Nothing equals a frame jig...

 

Nice operating table. @Blue One 's favorite color.

 

Followed the 39Guy's link from the 40 Ford thread over here and have neglected all else till I read it all! I'm doubly interested here because I have a '40 Coupe and because my maternal Grandfather was a Dutchman!
I can't claim to have built my '40, I bought it a few years ago already finished as I only lack a few weeks being 82 and just didn't have another build from scratch in my worn out old body!
But if I was enough younger or in better condition, I seriously doubt that I could match the skills in metal fabrication and forming that I've seen on these pages! My biggest problem is that I spent too many years building cars for the dirt tracks of the Southeast US and also cars which were used in the transportation of shine whiskey and the materials to manufacture it.
If the dirt cars looked good enough from the grandstand seats when you lined up on the track to start a race, and the whiskey haulers looked innocent enough to not attract the revenue agents attention, you were just fine if they were fast enough! Their life was short most of the time, so perfection wasn't too important a priority! LOL
You've done a fantastic job and I look forward to following your progress in the build.

 

Great job on the table Chris. It will make things MUCH easier!

 

Thank you Jason!


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Today I decided that the front cross member has to be removed in order to be able to reach the rotten X-member.

So I removed some 30 rivets in every conceivable way. Mostly drilling hammering and drivers and grinding.. I’m no longer a boy now.



With the cross member out of the way I can now reach the rust holes on the inside.



However it seems that the steering mount is spot welded to the top of the inner frame rail.



It has also become clear that some anti rust measures were taken by a previous owner. There is some rubber/glue-like stuff in between the frame rails. I think I should remove the entire front X-member or the outer frame rail. To be continued..



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Yep - those things will make a man of ya! Working on mine for the first time was a real eye opener...

 

Today I started to repair the chassis. In order to repair the left inner rail at the front I decided to cut it out.




I used long crow bars to remove from the outer rail..



A solid 2 pounds of rust came out.

At Koops in Middenmeer I had new steel bent to the original bending radius. Modern press brakes bend steel too sharp so I had deviced a way to extend the bend radius a bit. Instead of bending a single sheet of steel I had the press brake bend the target 2.5mm steel with a 2mm sheet on top of it. A kind of sandwich. This results in the right inner radius for the X member.



Then I started making molds of 1mm sheet metal. I planned on using cardboard first but fellow HAMBer HiSpoke made me change my mind and use sheet steel. I marked all holes in the Xmember and its contours.









Then I started cutting up the old steel.




And then I started making new repair sections using the newly bent steel. I will need several sections to repair the left front X member. Its rust follows bends in 2 dimensions so it is a small puzzle to keep it simple.






The first repair section is coming along.







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Intense work but coming a long nice...

I suppose dinner is postponed while working at the table...hehehe

 

Hey Jason,

Please don’t tell my wife. She was out while I used the table.


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I did some more rust repairs on the frame lately.

Starting where I left last time I trial fitted the new section:



Then I welded it in.



Then I proceeded with a more complex repair section. This angled part bends in 2 directions at the same time.



In order to get the proper contours I bent it around a drill on a vice. This worked fairly well.





Fits like a glove. This complex new part splits the bad area in 2 easy repair sections.



The next photo shows another repair section in place. You can also see here that the steering column support is still on the frame rail. I never had to remove it for welding in the repairs.






All welded up with enough fresh steel to re-drill the whole with a drill.






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Today some more small repairs.
Again I can re-use a pre bent sheet of steel for this body support.









Some grinding will make it look good.

 

This is another rust problem in the right inner front frame rail. It turned out to be a major pain in the ass.



The first reason is the government seal that severely limits my options to move the frame rail. The second reason is that there where some residual internal tensions in the frame rail itself. Some torsion that revealed itself only after I cut the rail.

Here you can see the seal that binds the inner rail to the outer rail.



I marked all bad sections.



There is a lot of them..



Inner and outer rail have parted here and there.





Marked the cut off point here.



Welded on a cross member to support the X member after the cut.



And the cut the inner rail:

There is a big dent in the top of the frame rails here:



I solved that with a heavy machine vise.



Removed the inner frame rail.
Here comes another 2 pounds of rust.







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After doing some thickness measurements thus is cutting up the inner frame rail for more repairs.





This part is so deformed that I have to do some guess work and interpolation to get good measurements.



I cannot move the inner rail away from the chassis because of the government seal but fortunately I can turn it around on the spot.

Here I have cut and bent a replacement part.



More cutting.



And another replacement part tacked in place. It took a lot of trial fitting already and the government seal is starting to show some wear now.



This is the point where it becomes clear that there is some residual torsion in the frame rail and it does not line up nicely with the other end. Even after several re-tacking.

This is replacing a thin part in the top of the inner frame rail.







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The inner frame rail sucked the life out of me so I decided to take on an easier repair.

As you may recall I have a supply of sheet metal bent to 90 degrees for all sorts of repairs.



Today I used it for repairing this:



I wrapped a piece of 90 degrees steel around a whole saw because it has a good radius.



When I removed it it looked like this:
This was unexpected and it is caused by the 90 degree profile. However it did not stop me from using it.





Cut out the bad stuff:



Making the new part fit:



Tack. And now there is only an easy patch panel required to fill it all up.



Ready for final welding.




View attachment 4525525

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I tend to favor small local repairs. Here is another one.

I marked a number of bad spots. Once that is done things seemingly become easier for some reason.



Today I’m looking to replace this heavily dented/see through bit.



I have cut a replacement part.



After tacking it I improvised a “rail” that my hand can slide over while holding my TIG torch.



The end result:



Not too happy about the way it looks but I started too hot. That will not happen again.
Some serious grinding should clean up this mess..

 

Interesting that you have a government seal on the chassis...........here in Oz there are some restrictions to what can be done to a cars chassis but there are no seals used , just depending on whats been done the car may be classified under different regulations..........ie, basically "stock" and on full, normal registration, and then varying types of hot rod or street rod regulations which have differing types of usage allowed, ie, full usage or a limited use scheme......so if your car is going to be basically stock or restored what is the government trying to stop happening with the use of that seal?...........and finally you are to be commended, I have re read this thread and what you are doing is a credit to you and very informative.........thank you.....Andy Douglas

 

Hi Douglas,

A government official has visited me when the car was still in one piece and inspected the car to assess the origin/authenticity of the parts. He checked the chassis number and the gearbox number. Then 3 seals were attached. One to the body and 2 to the chassis.
I was told by the government official that the seal must stay on the chassis until I have the car restored and reassembled. Then the car will be inspected again and they will check the seals.

I was told that the seals - each one has an ID - must guarantee that I did not replace the entire chassis or body. So that I do not create a mix of parts that destroys the identity of car.

In the end - if I pass the final inspection - then I get a historical plate for the car that allows me to drive the car and kind of proves the authenticity of the car.

Regards,
Chris






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Great work Chris!

 

Great work on a serious case of rust. I hadn't visited your thread in quite awhile. and I was sitting here at my PC wondering why with a rust case this bad, it would not be more time effective to find a second job for awhile and then used the money to buy an aftermarket frame, of which several are available for a '40 Ford.
Then I looked at your location and at your explanation of government regulations and restrictions and now understand your efforts on this frame rather than replacing it.
Your progress on this gives me a great deal of respect for your skill, and persistence in a difficult situation.

 

Chris, thanks for the reply and explanation, as mentioned we here in Oz do have some restrictive requirements but none that are as over the top as the attaching of seals to confirm the originality........now that you have me curious, where are the other two seals located ............and this government official.............did he/she have any understanding of the condition of the car and what was their expectation of what you could be expected to do/restore or replace and not get into trouble from them?.......I have an increased respect of your skills and dedication .....Andy Douglas

 

Whats a 'bucking bar'? I know the tool that holds the formed head as a 'rivet snap', but this is basically a punch with the shape of the river head to support the formed end while you whack the the other end down, but I cant see how you would hold this to generate enough force to compress the blank end. Is a bucking bar a piece of large solid steel, with an indent in the middle that you can clamp either side to the frame while you smack it?

Side note, rivets were usually fitted completely red hot, so that they would shrink and tighten as they cooled after they were formed.


skip to 2.19
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https://aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?id=11PC

Example of bucking bars... usually used to form the shop head of an aluminum rivet with a rivet gun on the factory head.