Technical Reusing old cam & lifters

Man, I love roller cams!!!....

 

Yup, they are the bees knees. But close to 2x more over a flat tappet style cam when all is said and done. I have 3 Engineering degrees... not one covered cam and lifter relationships aside from theory. The School of Hard Knocks is where you learn about mixing lifters up on a used cam install.

 

If you have ever seen an engine apart that has had camshaft/lifter failure, you will never put a used cam in your engine. The lobe, lifter failure will spread the fine metal shavings all through out the engine, you will have rod and main bearing failure. The price of a new cam and lifters is much cheaper to begin with. DON’T do it.

 

Yep! I just installed a retro-fit in my SBC and it was right at a thousand bucks including cam and lifters, another set of pushrods, beehive springs, collars, keepers and spring locators, cutter for the spring seats, cam button to hold the cam in place, and a fuel pump pushrod. Now I can run any roller cam up to .600" lift without any other set-up (except valve relief in the piston. if needed). Yikes!

I'm tired of fighting the flat tappet cams!

 

LM14, thanks. That info should put the debate to rest. Todays technology doesn't let us do what I/we did over 50 years ago.

 

Drifting a bit from the OP question, but what about keeping the lifters matched to the cam lobes, but putting the entire cam/lifter setup into a different block? You hear of this happening all the time, but I am wondering if that is breaking the rules regarding re-use, as it's highly likely that the machining tolerances between the original and new blocks would be enough to disrupt the "worn in" relationship of the lifters to the cam lobes. Or how about simply changing the timing chain/gears on an engine? What if the new cam gear allows the cam to move back into the block an additional .005"? Wouldn't that be the same as running an unmatched, used set of lifters on a used cam?

 

Racing Roger; So now you have the standard H.A.M.B. answer, that being no matter the topic here we get the full circle of answers. Some responder's claiming to be Pro's some just informed hands on guys. It's easy to make any claim you want on the Keyboard. I believe you have just about everything that can be thrown in the Hat now. It's your job now to read through it all and decide who you want to put stock in and who's info get's thrown out. Bottom line for the uninformed builder it's a Crap Shoot, but this is how we learn the facts. As we all know even new parts can and do fail and just because a part is worn don't mean it's worn out. Understanding what your doing is of most importance. I do believe none of us have given you any information that each of us don't hands down believe our self to be true. It would be sad to see not spending an additional couple hundred dollars destroy a thousand hard earned dollars already spent.
Good Luck with your decision.

 

Way back in the day when I was a broke teenager trying to build a budget FE (is there such a thing? LOLOL...) I bought a used 'stock' cam out of a R-code 427, the seller threw in a set of 'lightweight' solid lifters. I had the presence of mind to have a machinist check it out before using it. He pronounced it acceptable for use, but insisted on re-facing the lifters to re-establish the 'crown' on them, for all the reasons given here. Cost me $15 to reface the set IIRC (I'm sure new lifters will be cheaper now, assuming anybody even does refacing these days), the cam and refurbished lifters proved to be reliable. YMMV...

 

Yes I realize that , and yes you have to be careful when removing or installing the cam. It is just a personal preference with me. If I am getting my hands dirty , I am going to throw a new set of bearings in with the new cam. Button it back up and be done with it.

 

Also , if he wants to use the old cam which he already caused problems with no lifter placement orientation the used cam and bearings need to be inspected. The poster did not know to keep the lifters orientation so who knows how careful he was/ is when removing cam. Anyways, everyone has their own methods ,so life goes on.

 

I overhauled this engine when I had very little spare money. Both of my children were small. We were a single income family. (me working two full time jobs so my wife could stay home) Now the kids are grown. That engine is still going fine.

That 302 was a relic from my past. It was part of my stash of parts from my single days. I bought it used running and driving. The only thing wrong? A very minor lifter "tick".
When I got it out of storage I decided to pull it down and check out that "tick".

That small tick was the #1'piston skirt bouncing off the counterweight in the #1 cylinder.

I had all my lifters organized as they came out until a mishap and they were scattered all over the garage floor.
So new lifters.
Bore taper was in spec....
Freeze plugs...
All oil galleries cleaned...
Block scrubbed and cleaned...
New timing chain...
All good stuff was used....
Valves lapped....
New rod and main bearings...
New TRW flat tops...
New rings..
New oil pump and pick up....

I reused the Crane Camshaft with it's springs and new lifters.
The only machine work that was done, was having the old pistons pressed off and new ones pressed on the rods.
All clearances were checked with plasti gauges and by "feel".
All this came in at around $400.

It was a gamble I guess. If you are going to gamble, try to bet on a sure thing. Make your own luck. Try to stack the deck in your favor.

The old cam did fine with new lifters. That was a gamble.

An old cam and old mismatched lifters ??
That's nearly a guarantee you'll have a failure.

On the other hand, my brother had 2 cam failures in as many weeks on an engine. In both cases it was a new cam with new lifters. The first one failed. So did the replacements. He'll never use another Summit camshaft and lifter set.

In that same time period there was a rash of new flat tappet cam failures. The oil was blamed. It seems there was a manufacturing defect from that brand. I can't remember if it was Comp or Crane. It seems like it was Comp. Who ever it was made cams for other brands like Summit.

My point is this....
Maybe you can get by with it. Do the prep work. Try to give it the best chance.
At least use new lifters.

 

First hand information from those who have actually run engines in which the cam and lifters have been mismatched and reused, as referred to in the original question, probably have more weight.

 

Nice to have that kinda coin for a cam ! That's half of what I have in a complete 388 stroker including heads ..

 

When I was younger I put new lifters to used cams, but never swapped used lifters. I have a set of new flat tappets (with flats for better oiling) for Ford I won't be using.... can make them affordable for you if you want a safer route.

 

You guys who were around in the '50's might remember the early Olds engines with ticking lifters. After a few years using the oil of the day, they tended to get sticky and noisy. We used to "service" the lifters as in take them out, disassemble, clean and reassemble. Usually helped to quiet them down. I don't recall worrying about which hole they came out of or went back in to.

 

"We used to "service" the lifters as in take them out, disassemble, clean and reassemble."

I still do that, but I make sure not to mix up the two main pieces (cylinder and piston?) in each lifter. And what lobe they go on, if flat tappet.

 

30 years ago, I had a sbc 350 in a Nova that had wiped one lobe completely, and was well on it's way to rounding off another one. I pulled a cam and the lifters from a God-only-knows other sbc, and put them in it. Adding insult to injury, it also had a set of 1.6 roller rockers without guideplates It ran that way for a year before I traded it off, and I beat the crap out of that thing. But, it was an old piece o' crap motor that I took a chance on, I never would have done that on one that had a new bottom end, even if I have to wait til next summer to drive it. I would go buy a used POS motor first.

 

When he was 12 I gave my middle son Chris a 64 fairlane htp. He already had overhauled a B farmall and dozens of Go kart and Honda engines. He installed a wore out 289 and got it running. For Christmas he got a ring overhaul kit . with all new bearings oil pump and timing chain. And over Christmas Vacation he by himself tore it down had the heads & block vatted and put it back together. The cam was worn out. He installed a used 351 winsor hyd cam and brand new solid lifters. and it worked. the little engine would turn 8500 RPM. It blew oil out of the dipstick and breather at that RPM but it the cam never went flat. I still have the car and the engine.

 

Solid lifters on a hydraulic cam?

 

Roller set ups are not cheap, but a vast improvement over a flat tappet cam for longevity as well as initial failures, I have never lost a FT cam, must be doing something right. I'm looking at Howards kits for a BBC project that is coming up, spend your $$ once as the old man would say.

 

Thanks to the guys who explained why this is a bad idea. Never knew the reason.

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Yep done by a 13 year old kid. My father bought a new 64 chevy truck. by 60,000 miles it was smoking and running poorly. Flat cam on exhaust lobe , gas in oil ate the bearings. So He bought a Rebuilt short block engine from Sears. 283 bored .060 crank turned .010 .010 reground cam. This was in 66. Dad was working away in Indiana on the new steel mill. So I 15 at the time installed it. And bought one new lifter and not knowing any better reused the remaining 15 old lifters. and that engine ran a long time. never had any cam issues. It died when a pressed in piston pin came loose and wore a deep groove in the cyl wall. Now the original engine developed a flat cam with all new parts? and the replacement with mismatched parts did not fail? Like someone mentioned its a crap shoot? just last year a neighbor had a pro build a 302 for his 56 ford truck. New aftermarket can and kit. Followed the recommended break in procedure. and it did not last 100 miles before the cam went flat. again a Crap Shoot! Not long ago I installed the used cam and lifters from a 305 into a 283. I kept the lifters on the correct lobes. No problems.

 

If I may address one other thing... I understand the part about being broke and working a budget. After having just moved 2200 miles, new job, new house, kids, bills, etc... I have about $140 of play money every two weeks and out of that I have to still buy my lunch and whatnot. Its taken me awhile to get the parts together to build my engine. One payday was cam bearings, another was lifters. The new cam from Comp was 3 separate paydays. New head bolts is another. Ive been building my engine on a budget for 6 months and I am just now finally getting everything and putting the engine together. Its going to take time that some other people who have more money, dont understand. (or dont remember)

That said, I would rather wait and piece it together than resuse the old stuff. The addage about "never enough time to do it right but always time to do it again" has come into play in my past and I learned the first time. And I dont want to do it again by using old parts. I would at most, reuse the cam and bearings, as long as the bearings arent rusty or gouged up. But I think you may be better off waiting and doing it right the first time. Ive been without my project car for enough years that a few more months wont matter.

As a last resort, find a 0% APR credit card. There are a few out there that offer 15 months no interest on purchases. Just dont get stupid with it. Good luck.

 

Just looked up a representative lifter for a 78 Ford Mustang from Summit Racing. $3 each
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-ht900/overview/
Much cheaper than the damage you are going to inflict on the rest of your engine if you try to reuse the lifters you have. I would also inspect the cam and make sure its still usable. Any doubt about the cam, then wait a little longer and save some more money. If you install a bad cam or lifters you are throwing your current money away.
The funny thing is that human nature is to try to find someone who will encourage you to do what you want to do, even though you know in your heart its the wrong thing to do....before you even asked the question.
Don't cheap out, do it one time and do it right.

 

Excellent Answer ! I remember the days when it was routine to actually save money for something you wanted....or put it on "lay-away". Good luck with your Nova.

 

I bought a used cam and lifters off of eBay for a Ford 302. Seller sent the lifters in a drilled pine block, numbered to where they came from. Crane 272 H-2 IIRC. Don't know if he was telling the truth or not, but I put the lifters in my block just like he had them numbered.
Never had any problems with it. Was still running fine when I got rid of the car.

 

Thank you, Im going to need it. She actually has been on the back burner for awhile. I found a '65 Galaxie that I was going to build and flip, and decided I wanted to keep the Gal, halfway through the build. And one Gal turned into five... So while Im waiting on moving stuff around after the move, Im building my engine for the Nova. I live up here the other side of Louisville in Scottsburg. I am sure we will run into each other at the Roadster show, if not something sooner!

 

What about Belly grinds. Guys would do it themselves hold the heel of a cam against a grinding wheel and remove some material to give it more lift!! I swear they actually done that. and it certainly made it have a lopey idle.

 

How did removing material add lift?

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Works fine. Just set them at .004 and check them often.