Hot Rods Cowl Steering . . . just stop !

Really ? It's not all that bad !

 

NOTE: I've never had a car with cowl steering and it's very highly unlikely that I ever will.

But I have a question based on my observations while reading this thread since it's inception: isn't the geographical relationship between the wishbone/hairpin mounting point and the pitman arm/drag link connection point more important than whether the steering box is mounted on the frame or sticking out of the cowl?

 

Lordy - that drag link!?

 

some folks will try to force the horse to drink by suction from the other end

 

The wacky shape of the drag link is odd, and the length of the pitman arm is also odd although with a slow enough box it should work. That said, if you did the "imaginary lines" the geometry of this one looks actually right on, or at least, very close.

 

I agree. It looks like maybe he read this post before he designed that setup.

 

how does cowl steering affect the so called death wobble of the front tires? I thought I had my 27 t set up correctly , but when I get to about 30 mph the front tires shake like an old twin I beam with a bad tie rod end

 

I do not think cowl steering per se is a cause of death wobble. But I think one contributing factor in its severity is a long drag link, as seen on many cowl steering installs. Wrong caster angle is another, as well as worn out parts and out of balance tires.

Some possible fixes include reducing caster angle and adding a tie rod damper unit. I like the ones from a Fiero

https://www.fierostore.com/Product/Detail.aspx?s=58026&d=324&p=1

BTW that pic of the roadster above with the Z-shaped drag link would be an invitation to front end wobble.

 

Pete and Jakes 4 bar set up - Installed in 1976 Still good today!!!

 

This is very interesting threat but in very small voice from the back of the room a small embarrassed voice, Larry is asking: "explain cowl steering".

 

Now that is exactly right, thanks for posting this. That's the way I set up my cars, as well as customers cars.
Don't know how many guys have walked up to my roadster to tell me my pitman arm should point straight
down. I explain it will turn quicker to the left if I do that. Pitman arm and drag link 90 degrees, wheel
straight ahead, equals even turning rate, right to left.

 

No bump-steer here. Just pure awesomeness.


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Awesome, I agree!!! I may have bump steer but I don't know it. Happy in my ignorance!

 

Don’t know nuthin bout steering....but...I know that, that profile shot @Fuzzy Knight =“Hot Rod” in my mind’s eye. They should all look that good. Just started lookin at this thread...very impressive...and seeing the name Pete Eastwood, well, out of respect for his talent, that is Mr. Pete Eastwood to me. Jus sayin.


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I also agree here. My 32 Roadster initially had a Vega box. No dampener, no issues, no death wobble. 80K miles. Cowl steering got me the death wobble even after replacing the entire front end and fussin with caster. Finally consented to the dampener. Hated to add that bandaide when I didn't have the problem previously. (SoCal says they put'm on every car they build) Wobble went away. And I agree that the condition is probably due to the longer drag link.

 

thank you for the information , I will try that , and then may just go to cross steer , see what kind of problems I will have then , other than looks .

 

Your car IS pure awesomeness!!!

 

I kinda give up sometimes, trying to dispel the pure BULLSHIT on here over the years about building every beam hotod at 7 or 8 caster,,, They just read that and keep passing it on, and have no clue on reality or how to build a beam car. The old timers sometimes called it "caster wobble". Heavy caster causes more strain and FLEXing on tie rods, and all else, on the first twitch from a bump or pothole event. The flexing then is a cause for a chain reaction to keep going.

Right, and....do they have a clue that on any side steer car with steering stops on the spindles, that the draglink travels less in one direction, compared to the other, when going full lock to full lock? LOL.. make their brains hurt on that one!

Think about it....There is a reason cars went to cross steer back in the mid 30s... and.....Cross steer is not exclusively a "modern build technique" on modern built rods...my recently sold 1930 Chevy chop/channel RPU (1959-60 Boston Built) , had a Ford "spring ahead", dropped/drilled Ford beam with Ford cross steer.

 

You will get even less traction trying to explain the fact that caster is set in relationship to the ground, and crossmember angle needs to be set to the arc of the suspension swing, and not caster. Often they are totally different angles. But here I go again being an engineer.

 

We as "modern" man, have been brainwashed to believe that a person who is not fully "colleg'd up" on whatever topic, cannot achieve what a college accredited person can... That is just not true "if" one really wants to think deeply and then be able to learn with a very open mind..

too much in life is taught to us from birth, or written, then read as final gospel...which has often made so many people just take things as stated...and then they never really thought about, or questioned things at all.


I fully plan on "learning more" till my last day...

.

 

I have has my share of fan-see book learnin', and that has taught me to question everything, and to require proof, not just mindlessly parrot what I have been told.

Learning to learn is the most important thing that a good education teaches you, and that absolutely does not need to come from the ivory tower of academia. The aforementioned open mind works just fine.

 

I have an 11th grade education, along with auto related schooling after that...but I do spend a LOT of time at UConn in your former home State. I hooked up with a (car-nut) "visiting-work study" Professor from the University of Innsbruck, Austria for a couple of months.. He even asked me to pick him with the 32 there, for a local rod cruise Thursday because he was headed back overseas soon...and I spent some time tonight there with a visiting professor from Pakistan, too. So I do not dispel the "ivory towers".. Some people here in CT do not even know the true roots of this now called "UConn"...see pic below, taken tonight. My point of this post which IS "getting way off the thread topic", is that we should always try to "see" more that is right in front of our eyes, learn more, share talk with others, etc.

 

Explain what part of it? What it is? Why somebody would want to use it? Why they should or shouldn’t?



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Thanks for the comeback Dave. What is it? "Cowell must mean it is somehow connected to the Cowell he asks or just why is it called that? I have been around the block at least once in my 79 years and must have missed that exit. Thanks again.

 

The steering box is mounted under the dash, with a shortened steering column. The output shaft exits the side of the cowl, horizontally, with a vertical pitman arm, and drag link connected to the rest of the front end.

This is as opposed to a normal side steer setup, with the box mounted on the frame, with pitman arm and drag link. Or cross steer, with box on frame but connected to the other side of the front end.

Cowl steering example:




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Hey thanks Dave something learned every day they say and now anyone else embarrassed to ask knows also. Steering was never the issue with me cause I never needed it, I have problems with the way it looks.

 

I spotted this cowl steer setup at Meltdown last year. It seems to solve the geometry problem, and looks kinda cool too.





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Did that car have front suspension ?

 

Well, it's a dragster and almost every drag strip is straight and they pride themselves on being as level as possible. Bump steer is a non-issue. All he needs to do is have enough steering input to keep the car going straight down the track and be able to turn off at the turn off. Well, and maneuver in the pits. In fact, with dragsters things like proper or improper Ackerman don't matter very much.

 

Sorry, don’t know. Don’t have any pics of the whole car. From the image, though, it’s a flip top dragster of some sort, so the front suspension wouldn’t need to work on the street.



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