I have a 62 Skylark and want to put a Buick 350 (maybe a sbc) in it. Any advice? I understand the floor needs cut for the trans. Can the front suspension take the weight?
After doing a bit of research I'd say the first step is getting out the tape measure and checking to see if a bigger V8 will Physically fit. Weight shouldn't be a big issue as Pontiac and Olds used that same suspension with the 61/63 Tempest and Cutlass. The later 231 V6 might be a viable fit but they were a bit of a slug in stock form.
Does the 62 Skylark use the same transaxle as the Pontiac Tempest? If so you will need to change more then the engine. More like the whole drive train.
The 215 cube aluminum V8 is about the same length as the Buick 350, which derived from the 300 Buick V8 which derived from the 215. The crankshaft from a 300 V8 was retrofitted, with mods, into 215 engines as a means of stroking those engines. The weight of an aluminum 215 is about 300 + pounds, whereas the 350 iron V8 is over 500 but less than 600. Transmissions in Olds and Buick models were conventional trans mounted to the engine, totally different than the Pontiac transaxles. Ray
I have considered a 231/od in my ‘63. The came with a V6, as well as the 215. Not sure if the V6 is similar to 231 though. Used to drive a 80s Regal with that set up and it drove real nice. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The iron V6 was the 196 (or 198, I always get mixed up on that). That early series V6, ‘61 thru ‘63 models, was essentially the same as the ‘64 225 up (except for cu in) but with one important difference.....the block bell housing bolt pattern was the same as the 215 aluminum V8, which really limits the stock transmissions that will fit without an adapter. However, the 225, 231 and 252 Buick V6’s built for rear drive cars all had the BOP bell housing bolt pattern. Also the later production V6....meaning about ‘77 models and later, were “even fire” engines and smoother running than the earlier “odd fire” models. In order to build the V6 as easily and economically as possible, the V6 was designed as 90* Vee so it could be built on the V8 production line tooling. But the 90 degree Vee presented some firing order issues. So, GM designed the firing order as 90-150-90-150.....This resulted in the nick name of ‘odd-fire’ and an imbalance shake or vibration that was sideways, not vertical. IIRC, the ‘77 models began the even fire crankshaft design which used offset crankpins on the same crank ‘throw’ for the connecting rods and the firing order was then divided equally by degrees of crank rotation.....each at 120* of rotation....and no vibration. This same crank design was later used by Chevrolet when they introduced the SBC based V6 for rear drive vehicles. The Buick 3800 V6 front drive engines had a different bell housing block pattern than described above and that was shared with GM 60* V6 and front drive 4 cylinder engines. The latter were used in some S-10 pickups in rear drive configuration and if automatics, used a 700R4 trans with a case design that fit the ‘front drive’ block bell housing bolt pattern. I have one of those transmissions. Since we are now in OT territory, I will not expand further, but the possibilities are intriguing. Ray
Measure up a small block Ford with a short water pump. It is narrow enough and with a C-4 the tunnel would not need surgery.
Thanks guys. I think the Buick 350 will fit. My fear is the way the front end is attached on these cars that it will not be strong enough to take the abuse I want to throw at it. I plan to replace the rearend and back half the car. I had a 70 Skylark street strip car for 30 years. This is all new to me.
Thank you caddy!! Aluminum heads(TA) and intake and a Buick seems good. Plus remove ac, power steering, and------. Should work
I took a look at that link in post #11.........personally, I am quite skeptical of that 450 lb weight given for a 350 Buick. Given that that is, or almost is, 100 lbs lighter than a small block Chevy doesn't seem realistic. I have both 340 and 350 Buick V8's on hand, and have for years, so I am not unfamiliar with these engines. That said, I do think they are relatively light weight, but by that I mean about the same as an SBC. Could be wrong about this, but it will take a scale to convince me. In any case, if you use aluminum heads and intake, you will shed some weight and improve the vehicle balance. Ray
Hnstray I agree. I plan to put the car on a diet, but it is already light. Structure and strength stay, silly things like a radio, heater core, ac are getting taken out. Moving the battery to the trunk is not a wt savings but puts wt in the back.
The buick special shared suspension with the Olds F85 from 61-63. Not with the Tempest. The Olds had the aluminum V8, like the Buick. So you'd probably want to keep the weight of the engine as low as you can.
Interesting chart I found. Oops, copied the data but not the chart spacing. Go here http://www.carnut.com/specs/engdim.html. says the 350 Buick weighs 450 Representative for comparison purposes only Engine Displacement A length B length C height D height E width DIST SUMP STARTER OIL FILTER WEIGHT AMC 250/287/327 x 27.75 24.00 x 24.12 rear rear right left rear 601 AMC 304/360/401 28.75 29.25 21.25 29.50 21.50 front rear right right front 540/600 Buick/Olds 215 x 28.00 x 27.00 26.00 front rear x right front 315 Buick 350 29.00 30.50 21.50 28.50 23.00 front rear right right front 450 Buick 322/425 x 33.50 x 29.00 28.00 rear rear left right rear 685 Buick 400/455 29.00 30.00 22.00 30.00 23.00 front center right right front 600/640 Cadillac 331/390 60-62 x x x x x rear rear left right rear 699/720 Cadillac 331/390 63-up x x x x x rear rear left left front 699/720 Cadillac 425/472/500 30.00 30.50 28.50 32.00 28.50 front rear right left front 625 Chevy 262/400 Short WP 26.50 27.00 20.50 27.00 22.00 rear rear right left rear 575 Chevy 262/400 Long WP 27.88 28.38 20.50 27.00 22.00 rear rear right left rear 575 Chevy 348/409 x 34.50 x 32.00 28.50 rear rear right left rear 685 Chevy 396/454 Short WP 30.50 30.50 23.50 33.00 27.00 rear rear right left rear 685 Chevy 396/454 Long WP 32.00 32.00 23.50 33.00 27.00 rear rear right left rear 685 Ford 221/302 27.00 29.00 22.00 27.00 22.00 front front right left front 440/460 Engine Displacement A length B length C height D height E width DIST SUMP STARTER OIL FILTER WEIGHT Ford 332/428FE 30.00 32.00 28.00 32.00 27.00 front front right left front 650 Ford 427 SOHC 32.00 34.00 30.00 34.00 32.00 front front right left front 680 Ford Flathead 30.00 30.00 22.00 x 26.00 front front left left rear 569 Mopar 273/360 29.50 29.50 23.50 31.00 25.00 rear front left right rear 525/560 Mopar V10 488/505 36.88 36.88 23.50 x 25.00 x front left right rear 716/816 Mopar 350/440 29.00 30.00 24.00 30.50 29.50 front center left left front 620/670 Mopar 331/392 Hemi 32.00 31.00 24.00 31.00 29.00 rear center left right rear 729/745 Mopar Late Hemi 32.00 32.00 24.00 32.00 29.00 front center left left front 765 Olds 303/394 x 32.00 x 29.00 30.00 rear rear right right rear 700 Olds 350 28.25 28.25 20.25 27.50 26.00 rear rear left right rear 560 Olds 455 29.00 31.00 24.00 31.00 26.50 rear rear left right rear 605 Pontiac 350/400 28.25 29.00 20.00 31.00 27.00 rear rear left right rear 650 Pontiac 455 29.50 32.00 27.00 33.00 27.00 rear rear left right rear 650 Allison V12 1710 x 44.00 36.00 x 30.00 rear rear rear x 1160 Merlin V12 1649 x 71.00 29.80 x 43.00 rear rear right x 1540 Engine Displacement A length B length C height D height E width DIST SUMP STARTER OIL FILTER WEIGHT A - Length from rear of intake manifold to water pump pulley B - Length from rear mounting surface to water pump pulley C - Height from bottom of sump to highest point of intake manifold D - Height from bottom of sump to top of carburetor E - Width outside of valve cover to outside of valve cover
I have seen a goodly number of errors on charts like this and think that is the case with this one. Ray
Found 3 other charts that all quoted the same 460#. Nobody states their source. A couple of guys on a jeep forum were swapping Buick 350, first guy weighed his rebuilt shortblock and all the accessories and came up with 540#, the other guy weighed his on truck scales with the exhaust manifolds and claimed 478#. I guess we'll know when somebody we know & trust weighs their's.
A bit OT, but hopefully you Buick guys could help me out. I have a good 300 Buick, with alloy heads, and stick shift set-up including the tranny. The 215 appeals to me for it's light weight (application to be a small Track T). Just came across a chap that has a nice alloy Rover (nee, Buick, but slightly bigger displacement), for reasonable price. It has a stick bell housing, but no flywheel/clutch/tranny. (I haven't seen it yet.) I know my 300 bell housing engine-side bolt pattern is not at all like a 215. Have no idea what the Rover bolt pattern is, or whether there might be some Buick pieces (V6 or V8) bell housing or flywheel that would fit. And is there some mixed-and-matched Buick/Rover starter-flywheel combination that will work? Help!!
a quick google search seems to make it look like the Rover has the same back as the 215. There are probably some british car forums that could help you out...have you searched yet for info?
I am too, Ray ..and I raced a 350 Buick in an Olds X body. I've seen that number around, but i think , inthe internet age, that stuff just gets passed around..accurate or not. I never weighed any of mine but I can't see where that much weight savings could be..It'a all normal stuff. Be back in a few.. Okay, I found a chart where the 301 Pontiac was 452 , and the 350 Buick was 450..Not buying that. Ever see a 301 crank ? head? manifold? They took 150# out of a 350/ 400..and still heavier than a 350 B? Not buying it. The 350 B has a normal crank with all the counterweights. Same stroke as a 460 Ford.
In answer to your original question , Ronnie ( peelouts and donuts /Gas monkey wannabee LOL) tried this last year.It became too involved for him .The Olds /Buick is somewhat different than the Tempest. Tempest is 5 lug, 4.5 bp (yes), with front steer. Rear steer box and linkage becomes your first problem. Think about the 300 stroker . Becomes a 270 something, I think. Now you trans is the next problem. 63 Tempest had a 326, which is a small piston 389. So there might be heavier springs available. Other than that , I can't imagine what you might do with the steering linkage that would break it. Better not tell us.
If you are a skilled fabricator and welder, have at it. If not, I'd recommend passing on the whole idea.
Totally agree. I am thinking that just maybe somebody weighed a long block assembly and got that figure. An 'undressed' engine could be that light.....but ready to run with all manifolds, water pump, distributor, carb, crank dampener, etc, no way (weigh ?). Ray
Another factor to consider is the fact that the original setup uses a bolt on front flange, a slip joint in the middle of the 2 piece drive line, swtching to a different trans requires much drive line modification. Plus the stock engine setup has a 6 degree down ward tilt to get the needed hump clearance. Front springs from a 54 Chev will offset the weight increase. Be prepared to fight drive line vibrations etc. Been there done that, was glad to dump my project and get a conventional Ford (in my avatar)
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