Ah. I do see that button. There's also media gallery embed, image, and media... it was a bit confusing. Here's what I'm working with, although Posies seems to think I'm dealing with stock 37-40 axle and spring. Also including a quick video of me jumping on the axle to show spring movement.
Yes, that's a stock Ford axle that's been dropped. Don't let Posies sell you a new spring for a stock wishbone application. It will be too wide (like you already have). I've got no idea where you live, but many large cities have spring shops that can make a brand new spring in any shape you need. I still recommend moving those perches up and getting a shorter spring.
Funny you mention that. Just got an email with their recommended spring and even though it was listed for a split setup it seemed like it was maybe fore a traditional spring above application or something. I think the measurement was too long. I sent some more photos to hopefully clear that up. As for a custom one... I'm in Columbus Oh. Not sure if you happen to know of any shops close to here but if not a "rod shop" who should I be looking to? Maybe a truck or frame and suspension shop? Thanks for the info. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I used Google and found these guys: http://www.smithsprings.com/ Do you have any hot rodder friends in town to ask?
Wasn't sure if there was a place someone could personally recommend. Not looking like it so I contacted that Smiths Springs last night (they were closed by the time I got home), so I'm waiting to hear back. Gonna contact a few more places today. Still waiting to hear back from Posies about my concern of the recommended spring still being too long. What should I be keeping in mind for the new spring in regards to ride height? I'd like to stay as close to where I am now. Is that just going to be a combo of # of leafs and arch? As for the overall length of the spring and getting the correct dimension for a new one... Could I measure from where the spring attaches to the shackle up to something fixed, say the bottom of the the axle. This currently makes roughly a 90 degree angle. Divide that in half which should theoretically give me the desired 45 angle. So I would have the distance from shackle to axle at 90 degrees, divided in half. Do that for both sides, add those numbers together, and subtract that from my current spring length to get the new spring length? Does that make sense or is my lack of sleep taking over?
I'm surprised you are not complaining about the truck wandering accorss the road. with the shackles straight up & down like that I would think the axle could wander back and forth. I guess it is not too bad with the side steer. I did not see a panhard bar, but maybe I missed it. Like others I think your spring is too long but it does look like you do have some travel when you jump on it. Other than that, you do have a lot of leaves in that front stack. By the way, how much air pressure in the front tires?
The truck actually drives great. Straight and true. Little if any bump steer. Just rides like a tank haha. No pan hard on the front. There is one on the back. I did have some issue with low speed death wobble (scariest thing I've experienced) after I rebuilt the front end (no springs obviously) last year. After seeing the existing king pins I'm thinking they were so bad that it was preventing any wobble. All new parts made everything so much smoother. Anyways, I toed it out and it hasn't been an issue since. Still considering a steering damper though. Just for added insurance. Tires are set at 32 all around. Next winters big purchase will be some bias ply look radials. Maybe new wheels too. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I'd take that existing spring to the shop and have them make you one that will be the same ride height, but about three inches narrower when installed, and softer. The "softer" part will be subjective and they will probably ask you "how much?". They will have a variety of ways to make the spring, either with thicker/thinner material, more/less leaves, etc. Hopefully they like a challenge.
Lets hope so... I'm hoping they have some way to test spring rate, so at least we could have a concrete number to work off of. Take out some of the subjectivity. That's why I'm hoping Posies will have a fix for me, since they've been in the game so long, specifically with these vehicles. A little guidance from the more experienced is never a bad thing. Although it would seem I've hit a road block of sorts with them. We shall see.
No, it's not. Had the toe in about 1/8" if I remember correctly. Got death wobble. Toed it out a bit, no more death wobble. Maybe it's b/c the tie rod is in front of the axle? Maybe it's the big bias plys? All I know is if the truck drives straight, doesn't bump steer, and no death wobble... then I'll gladly stick with toe out. Maybe I'll add a steering damper once I get new radials and toe in will work just fine.
I drove a coil/link hardcore 4x4 rig on the street for about a decade, 1/8" toe-out. Toe-in, it had death wobble.
Please post your fully detailed analysis. After you do that, kindly read the full body-of-evidence that this is a viable means of fixing this issue: https://www.google.com/webhp?source...&ie=UTF-8#q=toe+out+correcting+death+wobble&*
I'm not seeing the big issue with a little toe out. Every car I've ever experienced, regardless of suspension setup, has a range of settings that can work depending on various other inputs, driving style, intention of the car, etc. Doesn't mean the geometry is wrong.
All of my autocross, and short-track road-race setups have included either zero-toe, or toe-out. If anyone wants to call up the engineers over at Porsche and tell them that they got it all wrong, I will get you the number. There are a lot of misconceptions when it comes to alignment and suspension design. These get repeated as gospel, and people assume that they are the etched-in-stone truth. I work with electronically gathered data, track times, tire temperature, and driver feedback. If "right" doesn't work, and "wrong" does, which one is really right?
The man that builds my dirt track race cars told me that you toe in when the tie rod is behind the spindles, and toe out when the tie rod is in front. Based on that I think Low-N-Loud should try 1/8" toe out and then watch the wear pattern on his tires.
I think we came in just under 1/8 toe out and it drives great. No wear problems yet but the truck doesn't get driven a ton. Between cold, rain and snow we get a solid 3 days of good driving weather in central Ohio haha.
I think he was referring to the tie rod in front of the axle wanting toe out rather than toe in. I'd say you (Gimpy) were right when you said that different setups call for different settings and what works isn't always what is seen as gospel. Back to the spring. The spring shop should be able to make a new main leaf and maybe make a suggestion on the number of leaves. Old time spring shops that have been there for years on end usually have some guys who can figure that out real quick. I think my T bucket had the same axle (not dropped) under it and I used the spring from one side of either an F1 or 53/56 F100 but had the shackles on top of the axle. I went to the wrecking yard tape measure in hand looking for a spring when I did that in 1973/74.
Go back and reread alchemy's post #9. Check and consider moving the spring perches to make sure they're well above the scrub line. Then measure and buy your custom spring to fit. Somebody like Eaton can probably help recommend a starting point. Check their web site for lots of good spring related information. Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
So I've been talking to a bunch of spring shops, waiting on a few to get back to me after I sent measurements. In the meantime, I've been reading up on what others have been doing and weighing all my options. At the very least I'm going to need to swap out my springs ( probably need custom front and rear) and add shocks all the way around. Plus theres the issue on the front that some of you have pointed out, my shackles are below the scrub line. So that's something else I'll need to fix. I've been kicking around the idea of going to coil overs on the rear. Then it hit me, why not run coil overs all around? It would take care of all the issues, ride better than it ever has, and will probably be the same amount of work (probably less since I need to do shocks anyways). That brings up more questions though. Are there any inherent issues with doing coil overs on the front of a straight axle car? I've seen a few do it, but haven't came across a ton of info. I know it's not super "traditional" but I personally love the look of hot rods with some modern parts. Would they just connect from the frame to the bones? Thats how I was planning on doing the shocks.
Yeah, coilovers are another sport.... I can tolerate them on a full fendered car. But in plain sight they just scream: Look, I'm brandnew! Just not my taste in beer.
I definitely get personal preference, and there is something I love about a traditional front end. But if there's nothing crazy that shouldn't work on a straight axle with coilovers. Which thinking back I had a few rear straight axle cars with coilovers... Anyways, I can't argue with modern technology when it comes to ride quality and safety, so that combined with my liking of a front end with coilovers (not much different looking than having modern shocks imo) I think that's going to be the direction I pursue from here.
Keeping it simple,a little smoother ride,lube n smooth springs*,add tube shocks,less PSI in tires. Going a little more=Your shackles too spring langth are set up wrong front and back,don't let spring work as they should{take note shackles are hanging too low{ should be at a 45* angle. {{ I see that the front shackle mount on the bone is a"T"bolted on,this maybe abile to turned around so the eye is out side/getting the right shackle angle an spring fit{what you have will likely then fit. Its also likely on front you can use 3 or 4 less of the short leafs. Both ends of car in your photo have bad shackle angles an that lets car shake back n forth side to side{also can death wabble] with shackles hanging down vs at 45*. Front tires are too wide/heavy an look too far off set to out side/this adds to poor control of steering. I don't care much for the zero ackerman steering arms ether,but they are much better then what you had,that were backword ackerman. All plays in to a good ride.
You mention coilovers and everyone gets all weird. I guess "build it how you like it" only goes so far...
Not sure why it became a "we vs you" sort of thing... buy hey, what would car culture be without everyone hating on each others rides? Anyways, thanks to everyone that threw out info on this thread. It was a good learning experience, and gave me plenty of things to look at / consider. I definitely gained some very valuable knowledge.
It is certainly not 'us' vs 'you'. It is more like ' on topic' vs ' off topic'. As I said before, I can tolerate coil overs when they are kind of hidden, maybe they are even traditional... I dont know, but I wouldn't use them on an open wheeled early hot rod. This here is a board with a focus on traditional hot rods... Most on here hide their modern parts out of sight and are good in disguising them
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