Technical HOW SHOULD MY SERIAL NUMBER PLATE BE ATTACHED ?

I have my recently issued NORTH CAROLINA title, in my possession, for my 1951 Chevrolet, Styleline Deluxe, Sport Coupe.

I bought this car from the estate of my late friend, in NEW MEXICO.

The NEW MEXICO TITLE matched the serial number plate, on the "A" pillar post.

NORTH CAROLINA State Troopers have now called today, have told me, upon reviewing my paperwork, and the picture of my serial number taken by the State Trooper months ago, that my serial number plate is not attached correctly to my "A" pillar post.

My serial number plate is attached to my "A" pillar post, with RIVETS, EXACTLY as shown in the 1949 to 1953 GM Chevrolet Service Manual.

Fact is, I own TWO 1951 Chevrolets, both are from Janesville, Wisconsin assembly plant.

The car in question was assembled in December of 1950, while the other was assembled in July of 1951. Both serial number plates are identical in appearance, both are secured with rivets to the 'A' pillar post, 10" above the body belt line.

The North Carolina State Trooper has stated my serial number plate, for my 1951 Chevy, should be attached with WELDS.

I have told the trooper that his information is incorrect. I recall other model years having serial number plates attached via welds, but do not recall the years.

Is there any documentation out there, besides the 1949 - 1953 CHEVROLET GM SERVICE MANUAL, that displays or tells of the correct "attaching procedure" for my 1951 Chevrolet serial number ?

The N.C. State Trooper is returning to my home tomorrow, 12-7-2016, for further inspection.

Any information will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob. 12-6-2016.

 

My 54 is spot welded. All the tri fives I worked on we're spot welded.

 

Went through the same dance with a 65 Ford. I got tired of it and just had them issue me a whole new title and VIN number. The trooper/DMV put the new vin placard in 3 places on the truck body.

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Well if the plate is steel then weld it to his satisfaction..If the plate is Aluminum ask him how the fuck you supposed to do that..Stick his nose in your service manual and ask to see his information...But be more cordial than I write!

 

I THINK the spot weld began in 1953, but am not confident enough to call my thought a gospel fact.
Azz ache for no good reason, in my opinion.

 

I see you're from NC, so you understand what I'm going through here.
I don't want to modify or change the serial number plate that is valid and installed correctly, by the factory, according to my GM CHEVROLET service manual.
I'll see what this trooper has to say tomorrow, was hoping to find WHEN the actual date was when the attachment method went from rivets to spot welds.

 

Please let us know the outcome.

 

More than likely he will issue you a new VIN placard and stick on the door jam, glove box door and maybe on the firewall. It's no big deal.


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hmmmmmm, if applied carefully, painted seam sealer looks like weld.......

 

Good luck and let us know the outcome.

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NC does this entire out of state title change deal backwards.
The serial number should always be inspected first, then proceed with whatever direction the serial number dictates.
Instead .....
FIRST, I paid for the fees to have the title swap paperwork done in Raleigh, NC.
At the same time, I bought and received the NC plates, then went home.
Now, at this point, I'm already into this for $200.00 already and no one has viewed my serial number yet.
The title paperwork was sent to state capital (special title bureau) to be processed.
Then a week later a trooper came to my home to verify the serial number.
I then waited a month for my new title, but it never arrived.
I called Raleigh, they told me my title was sitting in limbo because the "clerk" at the local NC DMV put my old Georgia address on the new title application.
My title died in Raleigh, at a stand still.
I asked why they (special title bureau in Raleigh) didn't call me to verify or deny the incorrect address, to which I received no answer ------- just dead air on the phone.
They then decided, while speaking to me on the phone, to correct the title address and mail out my title, which they did, in a quick fashion.
That was 2 months ago, now today they call to say the picture of the serial number plate shows the plate is not secured correctly.
But it is. UGH.

 

Depending on people like this to 'protect' us. LOL

 

Should be riveted like this one,


http://smclassiccars.com/chevrolet/...y-wagon-chevy-rat-rod-project-no-reserve.html

 

But you understand that my current serial number plate matches, NC is just saying rivets are wrong and welds are right.

 

Scary, huh ?

 

Mine is mounted, exactly like yours.

 

On my 49 Fleetline the plate is painted over but there is no evidence of any rivet or weld bead, for that matter. It might be super glue.

 

On my '50 Chevy, two sheet metal screws held mine on when I purchased the car. Has since been changed to rivets.

 

I have had several 49-50 and all the body tags on the door post were held on with clutch head screws. The door post plate was just a body tag the vehicle ID number on the title is the motor number, at least on the 49-50's. I also had 53 and it was spot welded.

 

I have been online since beginning this thread, trying to find "attachment info" for the serial number plate on the "A pillar post".
It "seems" the '49 and '50 Chevys used screws, "51 and '52 used rivets, and '53 went to the spot welds.
The choice to use the vehicle serial number or the engine serial number on the title was the choice of the individual state, back then.
The "MSO" (manufacturers statement of origin) was the so to speak birth certificate of the car, which was passed to the dealer, after assembly.
The MSO utilized the vehicle (body) serial number, located on the A pillar post.
I never understood the value of using the engine serial number, knowing the engine could be swapped out so easily.

 

Now days they just pop rivet the tag on and that is considered permanent and legal.

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first. nc is a PITA, but it's still doable.

NC is a chassis state. as long as the chassis numbers are visible to the inspector and match your paperwork (title) he/she will probably let it slide, especially if the tags match the chassis and paperwork and don't look like Shiney new rivits.

I think their concern is that you may have transferred vin plates from one vehicle to another which is technically not legal. last time I met with an inspector I asked a lot of what if questions for future reference. he told me not to remove the plates during restoration, to work around them. there was a veiled implication I could remove them after inspection and title assignment but...

once the issues a nc title as long as it doesn't leave the state it won't have to be inspected again fwiw.

if you're not hung up on the factory vin the assignment is fairly painless. $100 bond with 2 writte. estimates of value and they slap a sticker in the door jam and another on the chassis in a place of your choosing.

the the poster above can give you a clear legit source documenting the screw vs rivet vs weld they should accept that. but it'll have to be a legit source. otherwise you're at the whim of the inspector. it's been ages since I worked with the inspectors in your neck of the woods so don't know, personality wise what to expect.

good luck





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The factory used blind rivets.

 

No, not in NC.

 

Look like Ford style rivets holding it on. No?


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Falconsprint63,
Thanks for your comments.
The car in question by the NC DMV is one of my 1951 Chevys. I have two of them.
Both cars are # 2 condition. Modified, but outwardly "looking nice".
"but... once the issues a nc title as long as it doesn't leave the state it won't have to be inspected again fwiw".
Your above statement does not apply to my case.
My Title was issued two months ago from Raleigh. My problem began today, 2 months later. It will now be reinspected tomorrow, Wednesday.
Today, 12-6, the trooper / inspector called, saying the folks in Raleigh now believe my serial number plate is attached incorrectly, as they reviewed my serial number plate photo, in their file.
The validity of the stamped plate numbers are not the issue, NC DMV believes the plate should be affixed with spot welds, and not the rivets that are on there.
Both '51's have their original and properly affixed serial number plates, both cars have the rivets, the factory manual shows the same rivets, but NC says there should be spot welds, according to whatever source they use.
FYI, spot welds were used by Chevrolet, beginning in 1953.
I do not want the NC replacement "Identification stickers", fearing those NEW stickers would lessen the value of the car.
Potential buyers would believe the NC stickers indicate the car was a "put together" piece of crap, which it is not.
VISIBLE CHASSIS NUMBERS ?
Back in '51, I don't know of ANY CHEVROLET FRAME STAMPED SERIAL NUMBER which was applied on the chassis, sure as hell not going to tear the car apart, blindly looking for one.
We'll see what happens here.

 

This says stamped on the plate attached to the body pillar but it doesn't say how it was attached. https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/do...information-kits/Chevrolet/1951-Chevrolet.pdf
Even reading that page it looks like Chevrolet felt that the serial number on the engine was more important than the body number in their scheme of things.
I can find no definitive info on how any of the body number tags were attached to the hinge post.

 

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1949_53/indice/serials.HTM

 

your situation is probably an exception. my comment about future inspection was intended to relate mostly to future sale, not what's up now. something in you application threw up a red flag after they issued the title and now they're doing so retroactive CYA. unfortunately you're at their mercy.

I realize you may not WANT replacement stickers, but again you're at their mercy here.

my recommendation is be cool when the come for the inspection. be respectful and cordial with the with the inspector. they're generally good folks and not out to stick it to you, they just have rules (however stupid) they have to follow. if there is a problem play stupid and ask them how to fix it. I've found they'll do what they can to help. listen carefully to what they say. there may be some "read between the lines" solutions "offered."

good luck

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Good advice and thanks. NC DMV guy will be here in an hour or so.