Thanks ..I know where LV is ..In fact, I won a few races there. When you respond to a post that is back a few pages, you should add the the post or page number to the current post. Thank you
George Cureton sent a few things for our tribute build and included this as a gift of his recognition. How cool is that!
The Raceway Park tech sticker says 1970, if the stickers from Atco were earned in 1970, in O/S, this may be a man named Carl Mothes' car. Do you any of you Division 1, (especially New Jersey) guys remember this man? If you do, did he drive a 57 Chevy sport sedan (four door hardtop)? Does anyone remember any 57 four doors at all from the PA/NJ area? The NHRA # on the window is 1870. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance…
Looks like an interesting car and I'm sure that you'll eventually gather quite a bit of information. It is important to remember that the practice of issuing permanent driver numbers that begin with the first digit of the home division (i.e., Division 1 drivers' numbers all begin with the digit "1") did not begin until 1973. Before that time, numbers were issued by NHRA upon entry to each national event. Therefore, each national event may have had the number 1870 assigned to a different car/driver. For example, my car number for the 1971 Winternationals was 1825. Someone else was most likely #1870 at that event and it may have been used for a different car at each event during that era. This year's Summernationals at Englishtown was the 47th edition of that event. Therefore, the first Summernationals at Englishtown would have been contested in 1969. If I were you, I'd begin the search for event programs for the 1969, 1970, and 1971 Summernationals and identify which entries were assigned the number 1870. It won't help to look for any programs after 1971 because no '57 Chevy was eligible to run in any Stock class beginning in 1972. Good luck with your search. c
So many great old cars out there still and no one has a clue as to their history. Just old cars to people now but they were someones pride and joy. Sad. I remember working all night on a race car with my buddies to JUST GO RACE the next day. No big race just to go race local. Ah to be young again, Thanks everyone for the contributions to this thread. Lippy
Thanks Chuck! I appreciate the tips and I will certainly take your advice and look for those programs! I will update this post as I gather more info!
There must be a few old Atco Drag Strip guy's from the 60's era who remember this car. Jersey guy's never forget an old drag racing car!! Jimbo
Hopefully, someone will remember. There's no doubt that the combination would have been respectable. The Gunning Brothers ran a 210 4-door hardtop, 220 horsepower car very successfully although I believe that their now-beautifully restored car ran in O/S. We should remember that things were changing very quickly as the Junior Stock era wound down in the late '60s. Hydros in sedan deliveries were in and then out; Powerglides were out and then in thanks to Marv Ripes' torque converter; '57 Chevrolet passenger cars with 4-speeds were, at one time, deemed legal and later declared illegal; three speeds were initially despised and then, after Alex Jarrell and others put their minds to making them bullet-proof, they became a viable option. To further complicate the situation, some of the finer points of distinction were never included in the Rulebook. Rather, they were decisions made by the National Tech Director and were enforced without ever being a part of the code. It's important to consider the viability of any combination in the context of the Rulebook and Classification Guide as they existed at that time.
Got a few today. 1956 N/S Chevy 1957 Sedan Delivery N/SA the "Hustlin Hoosier Duffy's Performance Specialties A/S Plymouth John Dianna L/SA 57 chevy Needs no introduction Monster Mash 55 Chevy I/S the start of the grump Again still in white Now in Red & White Number II and J/S The "Paddy Wagon" N/SA 55 Sedan Delivery The "Pink Panther" C/SA Plymouth Two 1957 Chevys looks like H/SA "Wilson Automotive" 57 Chevy M/S "Yoo-Hoo Too" G/SA Wayne Jesel
Chuck, I have been sorting out the ET/MPH of Junior Stock from the 1960s. I thought based on Post#3594 you might know the answer to this: I realize the 61-63 Cat & Grand Prix came with the Roto trans, not the 4spd-Hydramatic - and the big trans wouldn't even fit. Still, the feeling is, how did these NHRA runners survive with the Roto? Classracer thread 44070 suggests Ramon Lowe ran the Roto behind his 389/303 and 389/318 cars, ok well maybe the Roto was up to that. But, what about the SuperDuty cars? Lloyd & Carol Cox ran 389/368hp cars, would these have also run the Roto or possibly the big 4spd-Hydramatic? Lloyd was a transmission guy so maybe he figured out how to make the Roto live. And then, I see in the 1968 records, C/SA shows a 421/405sd at each end. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/june-1968-nhra-stock-class-national-records.298236/ Would these 389 and 421 SuperDuty cars have also had the Roto or did the Strato-Hydramatic go in there? (Maybe by 1968, the Turbo-400 was a legal swap for the Roto as both were "3spd automatics?)
Some Fords for today. Bridenthal Falcon H/S out in front Larry Walker's H/SA "Legal Cheater" blown 57 Ford sedan look at those long shackles. A few of the "Sounds of Silence" blown K/SA 57 Ford wagon 1 Killer car in it's day and maybe no front bumper bolts note the string holding the bumper up LOL. No string this shot.
That's a great question with a multitude of facets. I'm no authority on early Pontiacs or transmissions so my observations lack the support of a reliable knowledge base. I've heard the early Pontiac racers comment on the lack of durability with what they called the "slim jim" hydramatic transmission but the ultimate end of the "Hydros" seems to have been connected to their complexity and the basic design that didn't make use of a new concept that swept the industry, the torque converter. Some published sources suggest that we should be thanking Studebaker and Packard who partnered with Borg-Warner to create the torque converter. After digging through all my vintage MOTOR'S MANUAL books I've been reminded that as of 1961, the "slim jim" or "Roto Hydramatic" became the standard for all Oldsmobiles and the Pontiac Ventura, Grand Prix, and Catalina models. Some sources indicate that the 1956 revision of the original Hydramatic that was dubbed the "Controlled Coupling" or StratoFlight" version was still installed in Caddies, Pontiac Star Chief and Bonneville models up through 1963 so they may have been in the background. It seems to me that there were space issues beneath the floorpans of some models so it might have been tough to squeeze an original Hydramatic into the Catalina/Grand Prix models. I simply don't know the answer to the question of "who was running what" part of your question. The 1962 421 Catalinas seemed to do quite well with what they had so I suspect that there had to be a way to make them live. My good friend, Ron Mandella, lost the A/SA class final at Indy in 1963 to a 421 Pontiac and his Stage I 426 cross-ram Plymouth wagon didn't lose many class races so the Poncho must have found enough durability to get through a complete event. I do know that, by the following year, after we swapped in an early version of a modified-stall torque converter, the Pontiac was not a factor in the A/SA class at Indy. On a related note, there would have been no legal basis for swapping in a TH400 even if it would fit the chassis. Rules have been liberalized extensively in recent years to allow any transmission with up to three gears of the same make that will bolt to a legal block. Over fifteen years ago the substitution of a TH 350 or a TH200 for a heavier and less efficient TH400 was legalized but "back in the day" that 1962 Catalina, unless there was some exception for SD cars, would have been running a slim-jim (Roto Hydramatic). I hope this adequately addresses your questions. c
OK Boys & girls pull up a chair. It's 442 appreciation day. The neglected GM cousins don't get much love but they were great cars. My buddy had a white 66 with 4:11 headers and factory tripower and I was lucky to be his wingman riding shotgun and even got to drive it a few times. It was the fastest thing in our area. So I present a BUNCH of 442's Junior stockers. Note in these early years not many "Mag" wheels mostly stock steelies were run. Early 442 Wil Fisher Olds Wil Fischer Olds Early 442 B/S different version Guy ran a bunch of different ones. May be the same as the first one. Wil Fischer Olds Early 442 This one B/SA 1965 442 Brainbeau olds I saw this one run a lot was always a winner. B/S 442 Holiday olds Chesrown 442 in it's SS/E style it ran both SS and Junior stock Chesrown W-30 442 SS/E again wonder about the W-30 can't see any under bumper scoops? "Clark Olds" Dave Hollis B/SA 442 Doc Burgess Black Arrow II D/S 442 needs no intro This time at dover where I saw it run
don't worry not finished yet. "Columbia Olds" W-30 442 B/S D/S 442 "Piecemaker" "Edmond Oldsmobile" 442. The Performance Specialists "Racing Research" logo on several of the 442's "Fritz Thornton" Olds 442 interesting sheet metal additions below bumper and tow bar attachment points like several of these. the days of flat towing "Hole Shot" W-30 442 C/S Mack Markowitz B/S 442 Money Olds "Tiger Eater" 442 A/S Nelson Bros 442 B/S "UFO" The famous lady driver "Paula Murphy" 65 442 Pete Kost Precision Eng. Spec. 442
A few more 'Red Baron" W-30 442 Ronnie Broadhead 442 Tiger Tamer which I think refers to taming GTO's with a tiger in their tanks LOL. "The Rectifier" 442 LOTS of trophies White Power 442 stocker So there you go a bunch of 442 cars. In here we can see them from A/S all the way down to D/S many different version of HP and if I remember correctly theses were right about the time NHRA changed classifications and HP ratings to make room for the Big block chevies that were just coming out. I ran a few in my then D/S 67 mustang 390 and proud to say never got beat by one but GTOs were another story they were my nemesis
Great post, Loud Bang! For the record, regarding the caption for this picture, the "Porterville" that claimed Ronnie Broadhead as a favorite son was in California, not Ohio. Porterville, CA, is located in the San Joaquin Valley about 35 miles north northeast of the dragstrip sited in Famoso. Most people know that track simply as "Bakersfield." Ronnie and Butch Leal were both successful class racers with their roots in that area. c
Chuck, Boyce's book shows Broadhead at 12.98 at 11.02mph (110.2 ?) at 66 Winternats. So I guess the 12.87 came in that timeframe. I wonder how long that 12.87 record lasted, I show Brainbeau with 12.38 at 113.5 at 66 Indy. Except for the Tin Indian Ram Air "744cam" at 12.22 at 115.0, that 442 is the best et/mph I have in C/S for 1966. BTW thanks for the Hydramatic text the other day yes it helped a whole lot. Loudbang, x2 great pics. Do you recall the ET/MPH your 390gt Mustang ran and what prep the car had? Many of us wish Ford had done more with the 390gt, but that Mustang was awfully light. I have lots of 104-107mph 66-C/S Fairlane/Comet cars but no NHRA data for the 67 Mustang.
Boyce's book shows Broadhead at 12.98 at 11.02mph (110.2 ?) at 66 Winternats. So I guess the 12.87 came in that timeframe. I wonder how long that 12.87 record lasted, I show Brainbeau with 12.38 at 113.5 at 66 Indy. Except for the Tin Indian Ram Air "744cam" at 12.22 at 115.0, that 442 is the best et/mph I have in C/S for 1966. Records in those days were "fluid." I was running in AHRA during 1966 but when I came back to NHRA a few years later, all Eliminator run dial-ins were based on the national record for the class (with a .1 cushion between the record and a breakout) until the final pairing. In the final, the dial-in for each competitor was the national record with NO breakout, each car was allowed to go as fast as possible. If either car posted a time that was better than the national record in the final, then that ET became the new national record and thus was the dial-in for all that cars in the class following a teardown certification. It was not unusual to go to the track with a competitive car on any given weekend and come home to find out that someone, a thousand miles away, in your class, had "bombed" the record and your competitive car was little more than a doorstop. As you can imagine, game-playing was the order of the day and records were set frequently as the season progressed. I'm not sure what the precise letter of the rules was in 1966 but it is highly unlikely that the record in a highly populated class would not be lowered throughout the year. C/S was populated with a raft of combinations that proliferated with the introduction of 442, GTO, Comet, Fairlane, Grand Sport genre and sponsoring dealers were interested in publicizing records and wins therefore the main players were "balls to the wall" most of the time. c
I never had a 442 but realize on looking back they were not to be underestimated. Another rather obscure link for Olds Day, the Smothers Brothers connection, and some worthy (11.60s and 116mph) et/mph from the 455-W30 in 1970-71. Kudos to Olds for not giving up on performance even in 1971-73. https://www.cartechbooks.com/blog/berejiksmothersandoldsmobile/
If I remember correctly it was in the 104 range but I was a weekend warrior only in trophy class street driven daily drive. It was a 1967 GT fastback with 7 inch racemasters, at first traction master bars then went with slapper bars when they came out and the were good for a 0.02 decrease in ET. Cheater regrind on the cam to met specs but increased ramp. Lightened with the usual scraping and getting rid of anything allowed. It was a sleeper made a bunch of money on the street people couldn't believe how good it ran. A bud on another site has a current one and is running in the 12.47 109 mph range and wins quite a bit.
York US30 Heritage Days/York Nostalgia Weekend - July 8-9, 2106 Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, 100 Baltimore Rd., York Springs PA PLUS******* 13th Annual YORK Nostalgia Nationals!!! July 9-10 @ Beaver Springs Dragway Come for the show and finish it off with some awesome racing at Beaver Springs! I will have my hardtop there along with other Jr. Stockers Darwin puts on excellent events and these will be NO different! Always a great time! The Museum is an excellent backdrop for the cars and the opportunity to hit the track afterwards is just plain awesome.
Gary (et al) I am looking for some basic info on the 65 Chev M/SA record holder, all I have is the Aug.1970 National Dragster sheet showing 13.36 record at Saginaw, MI. Trying to guess the model and engine combo but there were so many!
The Jalopy Journal
