Let it go Guru, if they want apples, they'll buy apples. Apples are good. I, for one appreciate the knowledge you lay down here.
Lay it down Guru. (Pun intended) I go through the same advice thing & the person (HAS the money even) cheap way out & then complains for years. And never admitting it was his own fault for using the junk. Top coat? Car-truck over here, FARM equipment over there.
I understand that........what we are talking about is a guy wanting to do an inexpensive job himself, not someone earning a living that has to live with people expecting no upkeep paint jobs for nothing. No, I probably wouldn't do it if I had to deal with the public. Many years ago we would get the $49.99 Earl Sheib paint jobs......We knew it would come out looking like shit and we would have to work on it for hours to get it to look good. We had the time because our cell phone wasn't going off every 18 seconds. Would I want to be the guy dealing with the public with one of those paint jobs today? No way. Do I blame you for not selling and pushing this? Heck no. For many of us older guys it's just how we did it and it worked for us.
Again, my advice was for someone doing it themselves, not for someone that has to listen to customers whine.
I did all the cut-in paint on my Ford with Omni's Wimbledon White. An acrylic urethane product which sprayed very nicely. Think it was like $40 a quart. The interior garnish I used the same brand in a metallic black. The interior floor I shot with Duplicolor, championship white lacquer for $26 a quart.
Limco is my favorite for straight enamel, and I have used the Nason for base/clear and I liked it as well, I see several people have said the same. Sure, you get what you pay for, but no reason a guy on a budget can't get good acceptable results without spending a fortune.
i really don't think it's fair to call any paint junk. we are fortunate to have a variety of paints to solve different problems.the trick is finding the right paint for the right job. this is why we get some guys swearing by their paint choices. for, mower decks, tractors, railings, inner panels etc the tractor/rustoleum type oil paints are a good choice. work trucks and "bargain" projects that need good spray ability, the acrylic enamels with a hardener are hard to beat. a straight urethane paint or clear, spray well, dry/cure well and produce great results and a long lasting finish. poly urethanes are super tough and shiny, the type of finish for chassis parts and frames. i use them all. you don't hunt squirrels with a bazooka, and you don't try to stop a tank with a bbgun.
I think its fair to call some coatings junk. We make junk paint because we have to, its nothing we recommend but some people call fiats junk and the people who don't, aren't mechanics. Lol Our junk paint just a little fyi for you guys on the red oxides, basically at the end of every batch when you make any color you always have a little left over that wont fill up a gallon and you are left a pint or 2, it goes into a big vat, or if we have mis matched industrial colors or whatever when you stir all those colors up end of month/ year you basically have a red oxide type color (mud). Then we convert to a primer or whatever and sell as our slush paint/ junk paint. A lot of this we sell to the steel building type places etc. Even if we sell for$10/gallon its still cheaper than hazardous disposal. Just some food for thought.
Well, I don't think Quality and low cost can be had... you can have one or the other. That's kind of like wanting a Lincoln for a Pinto's price. You won't get it. Sorry JMHO
This was do it yourself guys. The fine line between good product & longevity vs cheap is tight. Tractor stuff has its place.
Even though I paint cars now for guys, for money, I've always had this philosophy, even when I was shooting my own cars in my parent's driveway back in 1975. If I spend a couple weeks, stripping my car to bare, getting paint remover burns all over my arms, and hands, scrubbing it with a wire brush, and steel wool and lacquer thinner, to get it clean. Then another couple months straightening dents, fixing rust, sanding bondo, and primer til I had no fingerprints left, then primer and sand it again, and again. Then spend a couple days cleaning it up, getting in all the jams, edges, washing, and scrubbing it, until it's ready for paint. Do I really want to spend 300$ on crap paint to cover all my hard work? Or spend 600 for a long lasting good looking finish? There's really not a lot of cost difference when you compare it to the time spent, and money spent, on stripper, filler, primer, tape, sandpaper, etc. If I didn't have the money right them, I'd go do a tune up and couple brake jobs to get it! Or not go out with the guys for a couple weekends, spending the money on beer, or dinners. Even as a teenager, I put some value on my time and cash, as well as having priorities. My old cars meant a lot to me, so I sacrificed once in a while to try to make them better!
You can because there is so much mark up in paint, however you will not get quality and low cost unless you know the right people. In 2005 I worked for a large paint company, the avg cost ( now consider they are a resin manufacture and can buy tanker loads of anything) the avg cost for a gallon in the automotive division was $29/gal but a quart of red toner sold for over $300 my red gallon toner sells for $120
That's great......If someone doesn't have the funds and can buy better paint without the high mark ups, of course they should. My local paint place doesn't operate with your philosophy. It's nice to see that you do and it's why having those like yourself posting here makes sites like this better.
The reason the big name paint company have such a huge markup is because they have to. They offer a warranty, they have tech support, new shops or even older shops get free mixing banks and maybe even a booth, they sponsor everything known to man, they pay the outrageous prices to be an oe supplier to the big names. That all cost the end consumer. Think about the last time you went to any race..... There were paint manufacturers logos on cars and billboards Like paint guru said it is very cheap for the big name company to produce a gallon of product but they have no choice but to charge big money for it.
None of that stuff actually benefits me. I care less about 30 cars that all look alike going around in circles.....they aren't buying me a spray booth. If Paint Guru can buy wholesale and sell at a more reasonable (to me) mark up, that benefits me. I do understand that I am not the market big manufacturers are after. Yes, it is all about me.
I agree and in their defense the single largest expense is the color lab and color documentation, but let them be high, if their prices were reasonable I would be screwed lol
Here is another one. Single Stage Acrylic Enamel and a variety of solid and metallic colors... Paint/Hardener/Reducer kit with shipping for $100 per gallon https://www.paintforcars.com/acrylic_enamel_auto_paint_kits.html .
I used that on a frame off K-Mart style restoration. The paint faded and cracked in about a year! K-Mart restoration, 75 Chevy pick-up driver built from leftover parts.
Thanks for the alert. TCP Global has been mentioned a few times. Here is the link ... http://www.tcpglobal.com/Automotive-Paint/Restoration-Shop/ I will try this when the temps warm up in a month and report.
Ive used some tractor paint on my engine bay and so far for being about 1 year old, with a bit of coolant spray all over it from a small leak its held up quite well. Ive also been very happy with TCP Global's Custom shop hot rod flats line. Ive had their hot rod black on my truck with questionable prep for 5 years and it has held up well with no fading. Getting repainted now with that same color(never finished the job 5 years ago). Also found some high build primer from Upol which is a great English brand that's affordable here in the states also from tcp global.
Everything that I have used from UPOL has been very good product at a very "reasonable" price point. VR&C.
So acrylic enamel or urethane? What would be best for a garage painter versus a pro? Easier to spray, buff out, etc.?
Both spray similar, acrylic enamel in some brands may lay a little smoother due to its slower snap time, but my product you couldn't really tell the difference. You will get good buffing characteristics out of both, the acrylic urethane will be more resistant to chemicals, acid rain, brake fluid etc. Longevity acrylic urethane will last a little longer in the exact same conditions because of the extra activator it takes to cross link. But in the worst conditions you would get 3 years out of acrylic enamel, and 5 out of acrylic urethane. BUT here is the problem, you know how we talked about the quality of pigment and how the pigment in economy paint lines don't last.... Well its hard to find Quality acrylic enamel anymore, because paint companies have put acrylic enamel into their economy lines. I have one we actually use the same high quality pigments because a lot of painters still prefer acrylic enamel over anything else.
Urethane is a greater health hazard than enamel for non-professional DIYers without proper respiration masks, filters and ventilation. A couple of heated discussions on that subject I remember from a few years ago... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/bad-urethane-experience-need-info.308529/ http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-dangers-of-urethane-paint.309308/ .
Color By Design inc and my wife retails this brand and matrix. The industrial is big in Kansas, the automotive line is mainly in Georgia, Alabama and Florida. The automotive line was created by the chemist and tweaked over the last 5 years to what it is now, so we have bought color charts from I think as far back as 1936 and we are matching every color and putting them in the system. Probably a lot longer answer than what you wanted.
@Paint Guru If I was going to order paint from you, where would I look for color codes? Do you use PPG, DuPont, Kirker, etc.? Do you ship nationwide? I'm seriously thinking about ordering from you vs. one of the bigger guys.
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