Good point. I did have to trim the side nearest the hood as the panel was too long there. I am lucky a little though, as that hood band piece was still there, and I am able to use it to mark off of. These patches actually ain't too bad, seemingly. I wanted to run a straightedge from the bottom of the hood band portion across the panel. So, I used a tape on edge to do so. There IS a gap, but if I were to try to close that gap, the little band on your top right would come down, and be crooked. I asked someone what they thought, and they said that I should just go with what I pictured. But what I didn't think of but can actually do is measure off of the bead for the doors, and make sure those line up. Now that is a good idea.
Hi Ben, in your pictures you have your tape measure just under.....what is it called, the bulge I will call it, that runs along the bottom edge of Model A bodies. Be sure to measure the bulge width up and down, a 90 degree angle from your tape measure in the pictures. It is about 1and1/4 inch from top to bottom. compare that to an original A panel too. I found this bulge on my patch panels was wider from top to bottom by about 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch than original. I was fortunate and had fairly good doors. When I held my patch panel up to the cowl and my doors were hung in place, the difference in bulge width was obvious, the doors bottom edge bulge was narrower, about 1 inch from top to bottom. I had to bend the bottom edge of my patch panel under about 3/16 so it matched the door. Keep up the good work.
If you blow this pic way up you can see the cowl bottom edge "bulge" is still about 1/16 too wide compared to the door. I should have bent the bottom up just a little more.
What I am wondering is if it should matter; as I am replacing the whole bottom way around. At the end of the day, if it all matches, it may not matter if it is a quarter inch off of factory. That being said, if any dummy in the future wanted to replace a door, it wouldn't look so hot. I'm going to take a look at a couple other patch panels and measure what I got. I can then weigh the options I guess. Edit: seems like they are the right size, but I did notice a change in bead profile. I have never really looked before, and I don't have nothing to look at on my end, but take a look. Is this the part of the build where bondo covers all sins?
Wow! Profiles are way different. That stinks, I guess we are better off making the patches ourselves. I have a couple pair of quarter patches and they are not that good. AND- they don't match each other! Messed up
I think we can safely assume that panels vary a whole lot. I have not a bit of advice for you. I guess if it was me I would be spending an insane amount of time trying to make them match, and I would be pissed off about it. :^( Once they have shiny paint on em they really show their differences.
Depth is actually the same. Issue is that the rear quarter patch is more square, while that front cowl patch is more rounded. Idk if it would roll out on your bead roller. I guess what I really need is a closer look at a factory bead, as my car doesn't really have it.
I actually had the same problem. Definitely measure, measure, measure. Looks great! Oh, I think the "bulge " your referring to is called the "character lines" that's what I heard some old timers call it anyway. Not sure ......
They are the same height? You mean the crown of that arch is the same height as the plateau of that raised flat? If that's the case, a roller ain't gonna fix anything; a new panel will need to be made to match.
I looked up Glossary of Automotive design and you are correct,character lines or swage lines to increase visual appeal and increase body rigidity.
They are the same crown height. I was thinking that if worse comes to worse, I can weld everything I got in now, and come back and cut out and weld on a new bead piece. I don't feel like sitting for a month trying to think of what to do. Furthermore, quick question. I have a hood that came with my car. Is that bead the same as what the rest should be? If so, I could use that to help me out. Btw, the rear patch panels pictured were howell's. The other bead on the panel that follows the wheel arch IS good, and has the right contour, so at least I won on that. Edit: just checked the hood; it is just rolled up at the bottom, no bead. I guess I will start looking around to find an original bead to look at.
Oof. I wouldn't weld something on that I knew I was just going to have to cut off and re-do. If you want to see if any of my roller profiles can get close, come on by some time. I've got a small, basic planishing hammer. In theory, you could take a piece of half inch plate and cut the profile through it to make a set of dies but it's certainly no pullmax.
Yea, on second thought it does sound like a bad idea. I just feel as though I don't want to sit around and waste time however. The bad part is that I do not have any bead to match. If I had a good door or something, I could use that bead and continue everything off of it. Here is what I am working with hand tools wise. I lined them all up. The 3 lb hammer is actually modified by me a la fay butler; 2 inch radius one side, one inch radius on the other. I have actually made something resembling a bead in practice, just don't know (again) what the most accurate profile is.
Hitting the same spot along a line with a 3lb hammer is going to end up wasting time and materials. Not the way to go for the panel. I have a contour gauge on order btw. See if you can figure out what the radius on that panel is though.
[QUOTE="patmanta, post: 11425070, member: 150577See if you can figure out what the radius on that panel is though.[/QUOTE] With a little math, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Stolen from Machinery's Handbook:
I don't think I have any dies for my roller that will do that profile. I've only got 1/4 in., 3/8 in., and 1/2 in. bead mandrels which, even mixing small positive into the 1/2 in negative, won't be wide enough. I think this is going to need to be a pullmax or power hammer piece. That OR make a positive/negative die out of MDF and press it. That might actually be easier for you to do.
Funny story; I don't have any woodworking tools, or a press. It's kinda my weak point. That being said, I don't really want to go out and buy some. But I did have an idea. Does anyone object to me making the following piece: And then chopping it up, and hammering a contour on the "bead" portion? And then I could take it and weld it onto a piece that runs vertical? The only bend I cannot do on my HF hand brake is the bend that is slightly offset from the bead, that brings the panel back up to parallel with said bead. Thoughts?
I think you're on the right track, Ben. I don't know if Patmanta has a die for his bead roller that could form that tight return?? Or perhaps you could make a shallow v-groove die, and hammer form it using a modified 4" masonry chisel. I think welding as proposed would be terribly frustrating. Perhaps it's a combination of different ideas, but I'm sure with your skills and creativity you'll be able to "make it happening".
Read the whole thread over the last couple of days, interesting thread. You can do a lot with very few tools when it comes to body panels. You don't have to have a shrinker and stretcher or a bead roller to create patch panels. Bought in patch panels very seldom fit exactly but lots of comparing to the original and some modifications can achieve a good result in most cases. I tend to compare panels rather than use a tape as measuring complex panels accurately is pretty much impossible. Putting a strip of masking tape on a panel, say across a swage and marking starting and ending points of swages and other details gives you a good accurate datum. This can then be put in the same position on your blank sheet or new panel for accurate comparison. I hope this helps. David
None of the aftermarket panels fit perfect, not even the high end big dollar ones. I've used the same panels your using..... You can split hairs for eternity and still not have the exact Henry ford profile or bead..... But once it's welded in and body worked you'll never know.
Sweet. Thanks for the approval, and I got some good updates. Floor: hee hee. I called brookville and they wanted to sell the floor for 850. Guy on eBay was selling it for best offer 575. Seemed like a no brainier, and I bought it. Took for ever to ship and I think I know why- the floor is now listed on the bay at 909 dollars! He must have been using an old figure, so I got a steal of a deal! (Sorry if you now wanted one at 575 btw) Chassis: ran my rear rivnuts into the wishbone. So now everything should be ready for plumbing. One every ten inches. Paint: looking good. I have a couple drips due to brush error, but I'll contact mr hirsch and see if I can wet sand this bad Larry.
Wow!! You fixed up that car port so it looks like a garage!! Coming along nicely- you stole that floor panel you lucky bugger! Model A's in suspended animation-------------
Haha, I wish! Assembly day is Wednesday, and I'll have to wet sand it in the future; I laid it on thick and got runs. And I guess it ain't too bad. I'm going to get a bottom door patch and hopefully everything fills in. Here is an uncommon model A coupe view...
Hey! That looks like a Model A Coupe!! ^^^^^^^ You should set it all up on the sub rails. on the frame, so all your mounting holes line up. Get EVERYTHING lined up before you start welding any patches. -------------"Roll-A-Bone Garage" Coupe Assembly------------------ A suggested approach ; Sub rail on frame (bolts in holes- you don't need the body blocks) Cowl on with bolts to locate " Panel below the deck lid - bolted to sub rail rear cross member sides ( 1/4's) - held with bolts or 6" welding clamps in back, clamped in front to cowl posts rear window panel- clamped or bolted Set up a centerline and make sure nothing is wracked- "X" brace if necessary Once this is assembled, you can hang your doors- LINE UP THE WIDE BELT LINE- LATCH SIDE Sounds like a lot of work, but the body goes together pretty quickly, and should be fairly ridged. Also a good time to check how the deck lid fits. You're doing great!!
Looking for a couple opinions here; I have just been cleaning up panels with a wire wheel, so nothing really to see. BUT... I have been looking for treads so that I can kinda get my frame all said and done. Since I bought my floor all pre- squared and everything, I am just going to trim the edge that will hit the z, and put the frame out of the way. Then body back to frame at the end. Looking at tires, I want the largest big and little I can get with no rake in the frame, and then I also NEED the largest tire possible in the back, to fix the gear ratio so that I can cruise. That being said, the cheapest 16 inch 7.50 tires on coker are 194 ea. I have MAYBE found a way around it however, while still being trad. Take a look at these things. https://www.cokertire.com/tires/styles/bias-ply-tires/tornel-light-truck-highway-tread.html Yea, yea, not super traditional, but it will save me more than a hundred american dineros. That money could go to better things of course, such as parts (because I still have some to buy!) What is nice is that they will actually have less tuck than the 7.50s because they are rated for a thinner rim- so they may be safer. Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
Being cheap with the few money you got is SUPER traditional and goes as long back as gow jobs! That being said, the things that are known to get most money (and first) is engine, brakes and suspension. But tires are a very motivating when the frame stands just right. If it was mine I would go cheap on the fronts and go for some better looking tired for the back. But this is a matter of the year you are shooting for. Different era, different wheel and tires. If you go for wires those tires would be good enough, if you go for steelies or mags they don't cut the mustard, then will only cheater slicks be good enough. I fail to remember what era you shoot for?
The Jalopy Journal
