The inner door/hinge is nearly as tall as the outer door, and so its wide spread of hinges gives it considerable organic resistance to sagging. It would be much saggier if it were two bars instead of a wide panel.
For what it's worth I think the term,"pantograph door" is a bit misleading. A pantograph technically is a drawing device used to either enlarge or reduce a drawing. Why not just refer to it for what it is: a sliding door? I believe the original intent was to make it easier to enter and exit a vehicle by providing a wider opening without having to swing a heavy door outward. I would think that the huge hinge would also act as a stiffening agent for a vehicle that did not possess a fixed roof.JMHO
! That's exactly what I do to figgerout theoretical questions on suspension that would otherwise hurt my head!
Did you have to use that business card Be careful when pulling the trigger because words can have multiple meanings and applications. Electric trains have pantograph connections to power and pantograph hinges is a real name for hinges used in all sorts of applications including boats, trains, aircraft and vehicles. If you don't believe me, use google
So, lemme get this straight........the 39 Graham in the 1st photo is your car? Great cars. I sold my black four door to Terry Cook to make "swish" or "swoosh" or something from. I shoulda kept it and made a big 3 window coupe for that gorgeous front end to sit on. Good luck with the door thing...can't imagine why you'd want to do it but good luck with it anyway.
Technically, it doesn't slide, it swings on multiple pivot points. (at the same time) And if you added a pencil at the correct place, it would be the drawing device you are thinking of.
Here's a picture of the Dubonnet Xenia mid-restoration. This is the Saoutchik version of the 'parallel sliding door.' James Young also had one. Each received a patent in their own country (France & the UK). The heyday for these was 1935-1939. One downside is that the mechanism inhibits rear seat access.
If it helps at all, most transport category aircraft (airliner) doors open like this, roughly. You may be able to get some inspiration/parts from them. Doors are one of the most complex and worn out parts on most airplanes. My suggestion just based on the similarities is to make everything VERY adjustable, and able to be greased at all the moving points.
The tricky bit will be making the final closing motion perpendicular to the side of the car so the latch closes nicely and to jambs are touched.
We're talking an emulation of very high dollar Euro stuff, so no problem there. Your footman will see to closing the door properly, then fling himself over the side into rear seat or into the trunk as you peel out.
Ok well I might be a lowpayed Aussie. . . but Rik designed it and he is high dollar and comes from Euro (wherever that is?) hehe.
Judging by the rest of the project, you will make it work perfectly if you choose to do it. I'll be watching!
That first set of pics is cool especially when it mess's with you seeing the other car like its a mirror on the side, that being said the concept is easy, a suggestion would be to use dove tails on both ends like cars from the 30's and 40's did to help achieve perfect alignment when closing, the biggest feat I see is window glass issues in the 39 you might need to bump in your kick panels etc, and make adjustments to widen your doors to allow the stock glass to stay in its proper place and still keep the stock appearance on the outside, my two cents go for it you wont know if you don't try
I have a slight concern that joe public is going to totally misunderstand what youre doing with this style of door. They may just think "Lambo doors" - and not get the historical aspect at all.
They may think that, but I don't think this car is being built for Joe Public or anyone else except the owner. Those who get it, good. Those who don't, who cares? He hasn't actually committed to doing it yet, so all this may be moot.
True. Guess it depends how much cadmad is bothered by what others think. I thought it might be interesting to hide the hinge behind a pivoting rear quarter panel, rather than having the hinges on display and partially blocking access to the back seats,as on the examples above. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Harley Earl's first 27 Lasalle was heavily inspired by Hispano Suiza and when you look back at many of the Dream cars so many elements were derived directly from European Coachbuilders. My initial idea or this car was clearly to be inspired by out there ideas and to test myself to see if I could achieve it. Having a convert top mech that mimics the hardtop window opening, yet still manages to fold under a disappearing top is something that soaked up considerable brain energy. . . . but once I had it in my head , I had to do it. In the last year my circumstances have changed immencely so much so that put under a spotlight this whole project could be deemed a foolish folly. But thru all of the shit, dreaming and tinkering and more dreaming has kept me half sane. I like JamesD's idea of the hidden flap. That would work and alieviate the intrusion into the cabin. . . . There will always be people who get it or don't get it. I still may not even do it. But I'm gonna dream about it somemore . . . . and tinker some more. . . .
I think it would be a cool trick to see the doors open that way, but it would only be an accessory to the car. The beauty of the car itself is already the wow factor.
I would rather see a door like early fridges that pulling handle one way opened door to left and other way to right. Think pair of bear claws on each side rotated 90 degrees with pins mounted vertically.
Long been a fan of Saoutchik and his styling. It's not coincidental the pantograph door was largely developed in France where there has historically existed a fascination with overly complicated design concepts. I must add my wife is French and I have a huge regard for the country, language, culture and people. The Citroen TA (Traction Avant or front wheel drive of 1935) was designed with an automatic transmission that failed and replaced with a traditional manual trans at the last moment, explaining the weird shift pattern. Then the Citroen DS with its incredible air/oil suspension. One advantage of pantograph doors is they remain close to the body on opening and closing which can be an advantage in big cities where, logically, most of these high end custom creations were found. They add little to the appearance of the vehicle which is driven with the doors closed but they definitely provide a WOW factor on use much like Lambo doors. BTW, CadMad, been following your build thread and loving it. Whatever route you take will lead to success - and I lust after your 57 Eldo Biarritz convert. You, sir, are a man of exquisite taste and great ability.
LD: We met at Beaterville this year. Should get together and shoot the breeze. Do you have the 40 that's in your avatar? Tim
Here is a pic of the Graham mech. I'm looking for some hiem joints and some tubing and hope to make a prototype shortly.
I would have thought they're better in a push/pull and vertical action rather than loadbearing in a horizontal plane? What about some urethane bushes like these:
What a great thread, good luck with the project! Will a new door in aluminum be fabricated to lighten things up? Bob
I can imagine soft bushes deforming over time and messing your door gaps up. When I look at the steel tubular hinge structures I'm reminded of bicycle headsets, where the fork goes through the frame. Those are cheap, easily available and use ball bearings.
The thing i like about Heim joints (I spelt it incorrectly previously) is the high degree of adjustment that they will offer. I also looked at a tailgate lock mech today and that would also be great to incorporate. I still like the idea of no outside handle (just to make life difficult ). A frame out of 20mm @2 mm stainless roundtube should be ample. Thanks for the other ideas. I think that the door will be ok in steel. I have made enough horse and goat fences and gates to know it will be rigid enough especially with the triangulation.
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