I’m starting a spin off thread from my original build to focus on the repair and rehab of the Model A frame. This is the foundation of the project and a few areas need to be addressed before we can start building. This has set dormant since Fall of 2013. I had many opportunities to take it to a fellow HAMB’r to have the work done but in the back of my mind I had the want and desire to do it myself, to feel that satisfaction of creating something from my bare hands. So fast forward to June/July this year, after doing my research I decided on a Hobart Handler 140 MIG machine and all the safety equipment that goes along with it. I bought this direct from Hobart as a Factory Refurb, it's the new model with 5 voltage settings and the all metal drive mechanism. Picked up some scrap metal and started practicing. My goal is share what I learn along the way, help others and hopefully receive some constructive feedback and ideas during the process. So here we go! First step strip it down to the bare frame. (Summer of 2013) Issues Next we identify the problem areas, and we found some. The frame is in decent shape but needs a little TLC before the build can really start. 1. Front frame horns are bent. 2. Front cross member motor mount hole egged out and the whole cross member is loose and had been replaced at one time and was bolted in. Looking from the underside there was major cracks. 3. Center cross member front lip has battery damage and metal is thin. Also chassis has early motor with the finger on the clam shell that was busted out. 4. Rear cross member cracked in spring pocket area. 5. Rear Motor Mount Holes egged out. Coming up in the next post we tackle repairing the rear cross member.
Fast forward to the summer of 2014, Labor Day to be exact. The hottest day of the August and 200% humidity I decided it was time to get after it. Armed with my new Hobart Handler 140 welder loaded up with flux core wire, my trusty grinder and dremel tool I set to work. 1. First step grind down the cross member using the grinder loaded up with flap wheel to clean things up a bit. Had to use a BIG grinder wheel and use the edge for the underside, couldn’t get anything else in there. V’ed out the cracks with the dremel loaded up with a cut off wheel.. One crack actually went all the way thru. 2. Drilled the ends of the cracks 3. Make a couple passes with the welder. Not the best looking beads but we had full penetration. 4. Grind welds down with flap wheel in the grinder to see what we had. Needs another pass or two. 5. Then Weld, Grind, Repeat and RepeatJ Looks pretty decent. The center square spring bolt hole was also cracked and mushroomed out. Took the BFG to pound it down, dremeled out the cracks and welded. 6. Test fit new U Bolts to mount the spring and found one spread out a little too much. Nothing the BIG vise couldn’t handle. 7. Thru on some primer to keep from rusting until we finish things up. At this point it was just too damn hot and I was over heated and drenched and I cleaned up for the day. Next task work on the center cross member. Hope to have updates tomorrow evening.
Subscribed. Please keep the updates coming. Are you happy with the Hobart 140 for frame work? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
It has plenty of power and will do up to 1/4 inch. I actually had it up to high when I first pulled the trigger and blew right thru. Not sure why some of the pics are so small. I'll see if I can fix them. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I'm watching also.My rear x-member looks like yours.I've got a 140,ac/dc tig arc and an old ac generator welder combo.Have not bought gas for the mig or tig yet,next purchase.
Moving on to the center cross member. Today was a beautiful day with nice cool weather perfect for welding. So todays goal is to repair the center cross member. As a reminder this is what we started with. So first thing I cut out a small patch of 3/8 flat stock if memory serves me right, it probably doesn’t J and welded it in. Here’s the top view. Flipped the frame over prepped and welded the other side Time to clean it up with the grinder Flip the frame over again and grind some more and OH CRAP. Ground too much and metal was too thin. Time for lunch and some colorful language. Ok so after lunch cooler heads prevailed. So I cut out the area in red and started over. Forgot to take some pics of making the patch and welding it in, this time I’m not going to try and make it perfect and grind too much so I call it good enough. Here’s the bottom. Flipped it over again, I'm getting a good workout , and cleaned up the top a bit. Ok now move onto the area corroded from the battery. First step cut out the old metal. Forgot to take pic from top but cleaned that up as well. Cut a 6 inch piece of 3/8 flat stock and beveled the edges. Time to fire up the Hobart weld in the patch and did a little grinding and got the bottom all cleaned up. Flip the frame and tackle the top. Again not going to worry about make it too pretty and have to do it over. Throw a little primer on and call it done.
So next steps is to tackle the frame horns and front cross member. I’m looking for some suggestions on this. Can I just straighten the frame horns with a torch and the BFG or should I just cut them off and weld on replacements. I have a set cut off an original frame with plenty of extra to trim. As far as the front cross member goes I have a replacement. This will be a jalopy hot rod so not worried about originality. Should I rivet, can I bolt and weld it in, or just weld it in?
Welding the better set seems like less headache to me. There is a certain joy though in reviving old metal( trust me on this for I possibly am setting a self proclaimed record on frame welding ) if you straighten the originals. For the crossmember all three choices are viable. Just take the time to decide what you will want to see in there later down the road, and measure and check for square at least three times. Good luck "Listen Mr... It ain't broke if I can't fix it"
Big weekend lots of progress made. Test fir the replacement cross member and tackled those pretzled frame horns. Ok I must admit I did some of the disassembly and test fitting of a replacement cross member last fall. Then that’s where life, scheduling conflicts, trying to get the planets to align and a good amount of procrastination on my part won over. From the beginning I noticed a bunch of flex in the chassis, I know these things flex but it seemed excessive. During disassembly of the chassis it was obvious the front end moved around a lot from the egged out perch pin holes in the axle, wore out motor mount holes to the wore out spring bushings and shackles. Well I think I found the culprit I removed the bolts on one side cross member and basically it just fell out leaving a piece still bolted in the frame. The right side was about to fall off as well. So Put some feelers out on the H.A.M.B. and Ford Barn and sourced a replacement cross member within a day or two. The motor in my chassis has the early timing cover for solid mount to the frame and replacement cross member was this early style as well. Unit has had some previous weld repairs done, thinking I will have to grind weld down a bit to fit the Crank Handle Bracket. So I bolted in the replacement using grade 8 shouldered bolts just to see what it would look like. Looks good. Now for those of you that already know this don’t worry I didn’t get too far. What am I getting at you may ask? Well the early cross member like this has different dimensions and needs to be moved forward a ½ inch if memory serves me right. I discovered this by taking measurements and comparing to what I found online and it didn’t add up. Turns out the only hole that line up correctly are the lower rear tabs. This placed the cross member in the correct position.[EDIT 9/22/14] Holes in the rear tab do not line up. See latest updates. Best bet is to measure, measure and measure again.] I took this one step further and mounted the engine and transmission back into the chassis. I had bought new hardware and rear mounts and it all bolted up nicely. Note if you look hard enough you will see two bolts on the side frame rail, I had to drill the cross member as the holes did not line up. I did this to keep the frame from spreading and “lock” in the cross member good and tight. Maybe I shouldn’t have but I did. Once I was sure the front cross member was located correctly we pulled the motor and trans back out and the original cross member got tossed under the bench for another day. Maybe if I have nothing to do one day, HA!, I will try and fix it up and make it usable. At least I will get some metal fab and welding experience trying to do so. Next up fix those frame horns.
Now that I know where the front cross member will be placed, let’s move on to repairing the front frame horns. I had picked up some replacements last year but before we start cutting I took a second look and began pondering could I just straighten and save what’s there. Driver’s side doesn’t look too bad so let’s start there. Driver’s side seems to be tweaked starting at the bottom rivet hole, this is where we will make out first cut. First step was to remove the cross member, it was just temporarily bolted in. Thru this process it was in and out numerous times to check fitment and provide support while beating the frame horns into submission. Time to break out the Jigsaw with a metal cutting blade and made a couple relief cuts in the top and bottom of the rails. Slid the cross member back in the gave the frame horn a few love taps. Much better! Now lets take a look at the passenger side. This one is going to take a whole lot more tweaking. It’s bent out, bent in and twisted and area where the fender brack bolts on is pulled out. Maybe I should just cut it off and start fresh, there’s a straight replacement sitting below. But feeling confident from the drivers side repair I say what the hell let’s give it a shot. Here’s a shot from the showing more of the damage. Time to get out the BFG and a piece of rail I picked up at the flea market to use as an anvil. Get out your baggy pants cause it's Hammer Time! Ok what next. Made a couple relief cuts to make the frame horn comply to will. That took some of the bend out but notice that it still has a big curve in it. This was only on the top rail, the bottom of the rail was straight as an arrow. So at this point I figured that the area of the fender brace mount being ballooned out was causing the curve in the top rail. I employed the piece of rail as a dolly and started beating on some metal and it actually started to straighten out. It’s getting there, now the very tip of the frame horn needs some attention. For this just found a body dolly that fit tight in the frame rail and started some more hammer work. So after a few hours of tweaking, bending, twisting, and plenty of hammer work we end up with a pair of presentable frame horns. The drivers side came out great and the passenger side I would call ok, maybe I will massage it a little more as I weld it up. Made some great progress and the frame horns still need to be welded up solid. One of the big benefits is the front cross member fits better and after bolting in at the end of the day to test the fit the frame and didn’t have to wrestle the frame rails into position. Plan for next week is to get the frame horns all welded up and possibly get the front crossmember welded in after measuring everything twice and maybe test fitting the engine and trans again just to make sure. Stay tuned……
So glad you decided to use save the original frame horns. Much more rewarding isn't it? You may not be, but I'm proud of your work for you. Now you have a spare set for your next project. That's the way I look at my spared extras. Keep it up! "Listen Mr... It ain't broke if I can't fix it"
Oh yeah. I'm watching this one. My A frame is hanging in the rafters right now but I'm gonna tackle it soon.
Definitely rewarding being able to save what's there. This is the first time I have tackled such a project and I am thoroughly enjoying it.
Years from now people will be looking at this thread for good information. You mentioned 3/8 flat stock for repair, the frame is 1/8" thick so that is probably what you used. As you learned, bolting a crossmember in leaves it loose and wallows out the holes. Hot rivets tightly fill the space in the holes and are the better choice. Some guys want to weld the crossmember in but what about the next guy who needs to repair the frame 40 years from now? (That guy may be you next year when you smack a concrete mailbox) Rivets are a proper choice. For bent frame horns, consider using heat. When a frame bends, the metal stretches and gets thinner. Heat allows this metal to move back into place as opposed to making a cut and welding the thin metal together.
Today’s goal get the frame horns welded up solid and start planning how to mount the front cross member. Started by grinding down to clean metal also cleaned up a spot for a good ground for the welder. Added a few tack welds to hold things in place Used a copper spoon (Harbor Freight special) as a backer while welding. Time to weld, not too bad but could be better After a little grinding and filing Weld and grind and repeat on the other side and done, Good enough for this build, lot better than what I started with. Ok Before I do anything too permanent and weld in the front cross member I called out my #1 helper and measured 5 times and the cross member was not straight or the frame is bent? Took a deep breath removed the cross member and set the original back in. Measured again and it was straight. WTF!?? After much heads scratching I measured the holes in the rear tabs of the replacement cross member I was using to align the cross member and guess what one was 1” from the rear of the cross member and the other 1 3/16. Ahhh HAAAA!!! So I slid in the replacement cross member used a T Square to align it and set the wheelbas at 103 1/2 inches and remeasured. Guess what the three holes in the top of the cross member line up with the holes in the frame! Ok so speaking of holes, they have been drilled out and if I decide to go with riveting the cross member I need to weld them up. So that’s what I did. Clean it up get ready for welding. Bust out the copper spoon again, put a fresh spool of wire in the welder and get to work. Welded up the holes Grind it down a bit, looks like bubble gum, hey I need more practice and they need more welding and grinding. Slid the cross member back in just to see what's what. Hmm maybe I will just weld it in. That’s where we stopped for the day, just not enough time in the day to do it all. We'll be back at it next weekend and get the cross member ready for installation.
Ahhhh, the old HF copper spoon. I'm surprised that mine isn't died yet from welding so many holes on my frame closed. If it survives the build I think I'll give it a first and last name. "Listen Mr... It ain't broke if I can't fix it"
I got some time yesterday to finish welding up the oversized rivet holes in the front cross member. First I hit them with a round file to clean out the rust. I then clamped the copper spoon to back the hole, fired up my trusty Hobart 140 Mig welder loaded with Lincoln flux core wire and got to filling holes. Either I’m getting better at this welding stuff or this Lincoln Wire is the shit. Think it’s a little of the first and a lot of the latter This all cleaned up real nice with the flap wheel and I went back and fixed some of the shitty looking welds done previously. I’m actually seeing the weld pool as I am welding now. Was so pleased with myself and in the excitement I didn’t take any pics. Now that the front cross member was prepped I have made the decision to weld it in. More on this later. OK off to the next item on the frame rehab checklist. Fix egged out center motor mount holes. Here’s what I started with. Guess I just took pics of one side, I did same on driver and passenger side. Here’s the driver’s side. I prepped the holes with a round file to clean out the rust and took the grinder with flap wheel to the frame side to clean up the area around the holes. I didn’t had a copper pipe or carbon rod to insert in the hole to weld around so I clamped my trusty copper spoon to the back side and welded up the bottom of the holes. The above picture shows I have already ground the welds down smooth with the frame sides. Next step is to hand file the holes round again. Armed with various sized round files I got to work. I started small to create a groove, moved up to medium size for shape and then got out the large rat tail file to make everything nice and round. After a little sweat equity and making metal fillings I was rewarded with nice round holes and a proper fitting rubber insulator. So we have made some great progress over these past 3 or 4 weeks and getting close to the finished product. With The Race of Gentlemen next week not sure how much I'll get accomplished for a few weeks.. Next steps are to get the front cross member in its approximate location and clamped in. Then I think I will drop the motor back in to make sure it’s placed correctly and tack in the cross member. Pull the motor back out and weld it up. My plan for welding is to plug weld thru the rivet holes and give it my best effort to make the welds look like rivets and not to grind it down smooth. Next decision is do I have the frame sandblasted and start with a clean slate or just go over it with the wire wheel again and hit it with some rust converter then top coat with some chassis black.
Great thread, thanks for taking the time to detail. It's amazing how much work goes into each piece on an old car.
I've learned so much from the HAMB over the past few years I am pleased I can finally give back. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Spent Friday and Saturday at the Race of Gentlemen and managed a few hours today to get the front cross member and motor mocked up. First things first, get those rear mounts bolted in. Perfect job for budding young hot rodders. While my helper worked the engine crane I wrangled the motor into place and bolted it in place and clamped the crossmember in place. I'll try and sneak in an hour here and there after work to make sure it's square then clamp it in real good before I tack it in place to prep for final weld this coming weekend.
squared, clamped and ready to tack it in. Hoping to sneak in an hour or two on it this weekend Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Saturday 10/18/14 Beautiful weather time to weld! The front cross member is welded in and though I planned, well actually hoped I could make my welds look like rivets it didn’t work out that way. The last weld I did maybe. With some cleaning up and black paint I think it will look fine. So here are the results though not the prettiest welds they are strong. Really goofed on this one! Time to bust out the flap wheel. Went back in filled in and cleaned these up a little just forgot to take pics. Finally on the last weld, the one on the left, I got a good looking weld that could pass for a rivet, well maybe. Next week give the frame one last final wire wheeling a good bath and start spreading some rust converter and laying some paint. According to my 11 year old Son we are almost done! I didn't tell him we still have to rebuild the front end, rear end, brakes, engine, trans, find a body and so on but yes we are getting there and making good progress.
Lol....awesome tech Tbone....made me smile the whole way thru. Coulda' just paid someone to do it...but where's the fun in that ? Thanks for sharing.
Definitelty having fun and getting a great feeling of accomplishment It's on the list for next trip to get supplies
October 25/26th Weekend Update Well with cool weather on the way we made a big push to get the frame finished up and painted. Saturday’s goal was to prep frame for paint. I cleaned up the previous welds and made them look more presentable while my Son tackled rust removal in the tight areas with Dremel and wire wheel. After a thorough wirewheeling we gave the frame a quck bath in hot soapy water and dried of with rags and air gun and moved the frame into the yard. Wife would shoot me if I got paint on the driveway and I wouldn’t be too happy about it either J We had just enough rust converter to do the entire frame minus the front crossmember which had a good base of paint on it already. This gave it a nice flat black look and it looked better already. Figured we should let it dry overnight before painting and while applying rust converter I realized I neglected to address the once square hole that locates the front spring bolt. So move frame to the driveway and bust out the welder. The front cross member had some previous crack repair at some point in its life and with that bead no way the crank bracket wourd fit so a little work with the flap wheel and smoothed things out. Dove into the parts bin and pulled out the new center bolt for the front spring and gave it a test fit. Yup gonna need to add some material. After a little welding, grinding and flat file work we had a square hole and tighter fitting center bolt. Needs a little more at this point. After a little more welding and not wanting to grind away too much metal as I have done in the past and make more work for myself I just gave it a quick shot of primer. Besides this will all be hidden under the crank handle bracket.
The Jalopy Journal
