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Folks Of Interest The Truth About Speedway... Part 1

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Aug 27, 2014.

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  1. Ha, in general I have heard good things about Bill personally. I have even heard good things about the product that he sold, as well as bad. He was a businessman and he had to keep en eye on bottom line, you don't maintain a successful business by not doing so.

    I never purchased a thing from him in my lifetime, there was bad blood between him and the Ol' Man, it happens in our hobby/industry. I was there when the Ol' Man extended the olive branch and he didn't take it, so for me he was always off limits. A personal thing I suppose.

    That said I have heard good things about him and it never pays to speak ill of the dead, RIP Speedy Bill may you land in a good place.

    Note: Ryan I suppose that I have not answered your question, the bottom line is that anytime anyone creates a product someone is going to make a cheaper knock off. I would suggest patent but that seldom really works unless you just happen to have corporate backing.

    I think in Bill's defense he saw an opportunity to make money and took it. We have a tendency to worship those who we consider to be the ground breakers but the bottom line is money, no one ever got into this game because they were a nice guy and wanted to make the world a better place to live, or even if they did eventually they needed to pay to keep the lights on.

    is it right to steal someone's ideas and sell them as your own, nope it is not. Business is cut throat, I am an idealist or so I have been told so I want to think that it is not, but the truth is that if you have something good someone else wants it and they will have it if they can.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  2. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,264

    Petejoe
    Member
    from Zoar, Ohio

    Hotrod industry, Electronic industry, Steel making you name it. Ryan I disagree it does all relate regarding Speedways actions and attitude. I too wish it didn't........
     
  3. HellsHotRods
    Joined: Jul 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,405

    HellsHotRods
    Member

    I met Speedy Bill back in '99 at the Fall Hershey event, he said he was BANNED from selling at Hershey, but wouldn't say why.....

    Stromberg Carburetors: Only the originals are from South Bend, Indiana USA, if you want USA parts on your cars, use originals. The english carbs are from England, and Bob G. told me before he died that they weren't perfected yet. Speedway is China. What do you want to represent on your car- is what it comes down to.
     
  4. Just curious, would it have made a difference if HRW had gone through the process of getting a patent for their open drive kit? Serious question. Would Speedy Bill have then had to pay them a royalty on each unit he sold?
     
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  5. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,633

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    Again, irrelevant... to me, anyways...

    Absolutely. To my knowledge, Speedway has broken no laws and has done nothing illegal. This isn't about that. It's about small business in our industry... and how we support and influence them to keep innovating.
     
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  6. 100% Matt
    Joined: Aug 7, 2006
    Posts: 2,747

    100% Matt
    Member

    First off... thank you Ryan for bringing this up. As a parts manufacturer as well as someone that believes strongly in buying American Made goods this is something that has been on my mind a lot.

    I can go on and on about the symantics of "big business". But I believe it simply comes down to supply and demand. Or conscious consumerism. If there is no demand for cheaper foreign made products there will be little need for companys like Speedway to continue to knock-off products.
     
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  7. ynottayblock
    Joined: Dec 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,954

    ynottayblock
    Member

    Ryan I agree with your point, completely. And I hate the phrase "Ohh thats just how business works" probably more than you...But you're fighting a battle you're not going to win. Even if you get an answer from Speedway, are they going to pull the product off the shelf? Even if the HAMB collective boycotted that product, will they stop selling it? Even if if do pull the product, how many other products in their catalog were developed from somebody else's uncompinsated hard work? Where do you stop?
     
  8. Looking forward to Part 2.
     
    fauj likes this.
  9. Yes, I believe it will become a DEmotivational force. I believe what you are describing is that a competitor didn't 'build a better mousetrap', they built the same mousetrap. They are gambling on (or have a real or perceived legal loophole on their side) that the smaller guy having to forgoe a long patent/copyright/intellectual property court battle. The duplicator has perhaps assessed they are of greater financial strength than the originator In my book, that's a bully tactic - not right nor honorable at all. So yes, a moral failure.

    Scott/Gotta56forme
     
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  10. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 17,390

    Squablow
    Member

    Is this open drive adapter kit a copy of the F-1 open drive banjo parts, or is it a totally new thing? Like, could you do the same thing with the later pickup parts?

    That would make a difference to me.

    I don't know enough abour this part to have a good opinion about it.
     
  11. Modified the quote above.
    Simultaneous invention, is different than copying.


    Heavy on the Bully tactics, ask Clive about the Stromberg deal.
     
  12. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    "hot rod industry...innovation...moral failure..."
    A stack of contradictory bits picturing the hot rod world.
    Hot rodding at its foundation is rightly and fundamentally about new ideas from individuals interpreted by hands-on craftsmen, often and ideally the same person.
    This is attractive in the extreme, just look at all the people trying to individualize a car...but most of the human race looks outward for innovation, is too caught up in the necessities of family and work to really dig in and become crafty, and of real necessity has to cope with mass produced "custom" parts. Only a few really have serious creativity, probably fewer can escape normal ratrace life enough to master metal working, painting, and forming, most have to use money as a substitute for the time they don't have and to look toward the mad artists and geniuses for ideas good enough to be worth supporting. That's not a criticism of anyone...real craft and real creative vision are just plain rare, and it is probably even rarer for those few to be able to break loose and focus on their gifts.
    Just as in the fine arts, the real creators are often hermits, lunatics, and maybe sociopaths, probably just as a route to dodge economic reality and focus on creation. The moral success or failure is really the success or failure of creation and few can really succeed at that.
    This weird industry niche steps in to fill the needs of those with hot rod creative cravings but only pedestrian levels of art and craft, folks hamstrung by the demands of eating regularly, raising a family, and just the load of being a normal human.
    Industry is part of the food chain...the commercial part will continue in cannibalism, and right now they must be realizing that they aren't going to hold on to the top of that chain...the Chinese are just supplying the metal to retailers right now, but they aren't dumb...they will soon be able to figure out what we want without Speedway placing the orders and collecting the big checks. Nothing moral in that to fail, just big fish relating to little fish as many have noted in this discussion.
    Below the real industrial level, the real craft works...LITTLE suppliers like Tardel and Hotrod works noted above... will look more toward craft and less toward mass merchandising, and will sell more to the higher aesthetic end of the modified car world, leaving Speedway and whatever replaces it to supply those at the low end, yearning for something that is really theirs but only able to copy magazines that are little more than parts catalogs.
     
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  13. gonzo
    Joined: Dec 24, 2003
    Posts: 1,876

    gonzo
    Member

    Just because you haven't done anything illegal doesn't mean that you haven't done something wrong, I'd like to think we can hold ourselves to a higher standard than that.

    I personally try to put my money where my mouth is by buying products made in the US whenever possible and when I can't I try to buy used.

    "Men in overalls built this country and men in suits will ruin it"



    .
     
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  14. Ian
    I think that the history on the kit is question is that one man with a small business made it and used another company as an outlet for sales. the second company in turn decided that they could use their off shore contacts to copy and mass produce the product. The question becomes did they find that supply was not keeping with demand and if so did they even contact the original manufacturer and try and make some sort of a deal as far as increasing supply? Or did they just take the money and run?

    It is a shame that we are discussing this on line and yet no one who is actually an insider and is privy to the information is even going to attempt to tell their side of the story.
     
  15. Stu D Baker
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,755

    Stu D Baker
    Member
    from Illinois

    Legalities aside, pretty much, this thread is about moral issues. Moral issues are changing everyday on many different levels. Stu
     
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  16. williebill
    Joined: Mar 1, 2004
    Posts: 3,274

    williebill
    Member

    I remember, several years ago, one of the magazines printed a letter from a guy who developed a product, sold it through Speedway, and got shut out, in exactly the same way as described by Ryan. At the time, I thought it was interesting that they printed it, given Speedways clout as an advertiser.
    As usual, Bruce is dead on the money in his post. In my business, the craftsmen, artists, and genius fabricators are usually not normal, and either starve or have a spouse with a good job. I want to buy my stuff from these folks. And I want to trust whoever I buy hot rod parts from, and not worry that they've taken the Hoffman route. Business is brutal, and ethics isn't taught much in school, if at all. Speedway QC isn't what Ryan was talking about, but I have some concerns about that, too.
     
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  17. Something that good with no patent.. that makes no sense. So it seems it was legally fair game. Then there's the balance between making what EVERYONE thinks is the real deal piece... and not blatantly ripping off someone's design.
     
  18. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,021

    chaddilac
    Member

    I got one of the original HRW's adapters from speedway... funny how I bought it for $275 and then the start the chinese ones and go up to $299 on the price.... making more money I guess.
     
  19. All I know is that if I needed that part I would make it a point to buy it from HRW. They designedit, they made it here, and they're selling it cheaper to boot. If everyone did it that way we wouldn't need no chineese crap. Thanks but no thanks Speedway.
    -Pat
     
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  20. 270283
    Joined: Jun 11, 2006
    Posts: 423

    270283

    As has been pointed out in this thread, it is the American consumer that has put their own country in a bind. The Chinese are only following a script perfected by the Japanese of flooding our country with government subsidized products while protecting their own economy with trade restrictions and tariffs. Both of these countries also "hired" top ranking ex-government officials to insure their interests were protected. This goes back to at least the Sixties with Japan. They wanted the perception of Japanese products to improve and were willing to pay for it. There is a fine line between advertising and brainwashing. There have been polls showing many Americans think Toyota
    , for example, is an American company! P. T. Barnum said there was a sucker born every minute. I think he was being kind. We are our own worst enemies.
     
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  21. OneRustedDodge
    Joined: Jan 28, 2007
    Posts: 184

    OneRustedDodge
    Member

    There's a reason we call him "Greedy Bill". I've had friends on the other end of this deal and it was nothing but money that motivated their move to directly copy parts, manufacture them in china, and then transition to not carrying said "original" part(s) anymore. Glad you've finally pointed this out.
     
  22. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 9,517

    5window
    Member

    Fair enough. I like Speedway, have always gotten quality commensurate to what I've paid and certainly their speed of delivery and diversity of products are hard to beat. But, given the size of the HAMB and it's influence in the HR community, someone at Speedway should be compelled to answer these questions. Even if they admit to the accusations, it at least would put the speculation to rest. I would bet, surprisingly, little would change in their customer base. Some would stop buying from them-but most over those already have decided not to based on just the rumors. Others would continue to buy because they can get what they want,when they need it for a price they want to pay. Speedway would actually gain status with their honesty.

    Speedy Bill was, indeed, a man with a good reputation. But, sometimes the company goes beyond the control of the founder and visions become blurry. It would be good to know.
     
  23. I suspect Ryan will give them an opportunity to share their side of the story.
     
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  24. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    Innovators survive by staying ahead of the curve and often are not concerned about who copies their idea. When you look back in the 70's when P&J started selling traditional parts such as ladder bars, four bars, motor mounts and all of the other chassis components, several smaller and larger concerns simply purchased the parts, made their own version and soon were in direct competition with P&J. I believe that is why they decided to sell the business. Jerry, who purchased P&J, has turned a small business into a world wide source for parts by adding his own innovations. Pete has done the same with a new business model with similar products. Yes, they are in direct competition with numerous other companies who have borrowed on P&J's original designs. Is it legal? Is it moral? Is it the right thing to do? Is it an acceptable business practice? Only your conscious will provide you with the correct answer. My father taught me to make your own bed if you want to sleep better at night.

    Having worked in the automotive industry for over 40 years, I experienced a lot of innovative ideas from employees, suppliers and outsiders (small business) that were later incorporated into production without acknowledgment or renumeration. Was it correct? My father's wisdom prevailed and I did what I could to give credit where credit was due, but my company's business model wasn't the same as mine. Speedway's business model has survived for many years and with a strong management team in place, rest assured, they will continue to be America's Oldest Speed Shop for many years to come. If you chose to have them as your main distributor then you should have a contract in place that protects your product from being copied and sold by them.
     
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  25. He already has according to what I have read. So far they have shined him on.
     
  26. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 17,390

    Squablow
    Member

    Some of you guys are really focusing on the Chinese thing. What if Speedway was making these 100% in the US, but just with a different manufacturer, maybe one they own, and was still cutting out the other guy? I think that's more what the discussion is about, not "made in the USA".
     
  27. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,778

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Thanks for this post Ryan. This is the same way Sears and Walmart grew their business, in my opinion. I have purchased from Speedway, but NEVER one of the products they knocked off of the original guy. At least as far as I knew when making the purchase. This has been going on for as long as I have been buying hotrod parts. I have always gone to the original manufacturer when I could.
     
  28. Or, they could have bought the design from the original manufacturer.
    Then had it made where they wanted.

    Stealing the results of someone's hard work, is no different than stealing their TV.


    Or stealing their car.
     
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  29. Squablow,
    I think that my opinion would be the same no matter where the parts were actually made.

    Given my opinion of Speedway to start with what I say should probably be taken with a grain of salt, but, I think we have a tendency to use Chinese made products as a way to vilify Bill when it is not entirely necessary. There is no doubt enough fodder to do that without using offshore as a reason.

    If we were willing to expand our discussion we would discover that this is not just a Speedway problem. Speedway is easy because we know of people whom we care about that have been taken by the corporation but this river runs way deeper that that. It runs rampant not only in our industry but in Corporate America in general. For the most part I think that we all can agree that ethical dealings and good moral attitudes just are not common in this *"brave new world" that we live in. The truth is that it has been coming down the pike for a long time and coming at autobahn velocity.


    * Quote: Aldous Huxley
     
  30. So-cal Tex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 1,384

    So-cal Tex
    Member

    We should support the little guys in our industry after all small business built this country......Just look at what a ghost town main street USA is now in just about every town. These were once prosperous towns lined with SMALL BUSINESS run by local people that were a part of the community, dry cleaners, tailors, Auto parts, muffler shops, boutiques, shoe stores etc........they are gone because big box retailers and large corporations came in and undercut them initially and then drove them out of business.............It is our MONEY to spend as we please so support the little guy out there, so what if it costs a little more, I just ordered T-5 Camaro clutch disk from Dick Spardaro, the same one Speedway sells and it was even the same price but even if it was little more money I would have bought from him anyways, but I choose to spend my money with the little guy for a reason and I would encourage all you to do the same.

    Often times we ( myself included) get caught up the as I call it " Wal-Mart mentality " ; well " I can save 10 cents on socks at here at Wal-mart" or this gallon paint at Home Depot is $1 less than the local hardware store". "Autozone sells oil $30 cents a gallon cheaper than the locally owned parts store, the examples just keep going.

    If we all worked on changing our purchasing decisions and supported the little guy that manufactures here in the good ole USA then maybe we would not have 7% unemployment and in turn better quality stuff.
     
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