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Customs Thinking of building a mid-late 50's daily driver

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Gas Giant, Jun 28, 2014.

  1. Gas Giant
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 402

    Gas Giant
    Member

    I've always dreamed of having a mid to late 50's car for a daily driver, and after my birthday this year I decided that its time I got moving on that dream of mine.

    In reality, using a 50's car as a daily driver is kind of a dumb idea for me as I have an 80 mile round trip commute every day, part city traffic and part open highway. But I've reached a point where I don't care. One only drives so many miles during their time on earth, and I don't want to waste them in some silver-metallic plastic appliance that I have no more regard for than I would a toaster oven. Actually I have a higher regard for my toaster oven because it makes bagel bites and pizza rolls.

    But, since I do have an 80 mile round trip commute every day, I do need to be at least a little conscious about MPG. This might preclude me from using a big Cadillac or something like that. Also, being able to get parts fairly easily (and somewhat reasonably priced) is a concern, so that may preclude any Packards, Hudsons, etc.

    So what I've arrived at is that my best bet is probably a 55-57 Chevy, or maybe a '59 because those fins are awesome. Those of you that are a little more observant will realize that I've already got a '56, but it needs a lot more work than my budget will allow for this daily driver thing. (it needs a lot of metal work). Four door 55-57's seem to be reasonably priced in decent shape, and I won't feel like I'm slowly destroying something rare or expensive.

    Plus, most of my experience is with Chevrolets; I have several SBC engines, plenty of parts, quite a few 55-57 parts, etc. I don't have anything against other makes, this is just where my comfort zone is. If I find a nice deal on a '57 Pontiac or something of the like I'll definitely consider it.

    This leads to question 1: I've got a 3 speed OD trans out of a '57 Chevy. Since I'm looking for the best MPG I can get with a traditional-ish engine, (no EFI, no LS motors, etc) what would be the best engine to stick in front of it?

    I've got a rebuildable 283 (not a 55-57, it has side mounts)

    I've got a freshly rebuilt 350

    (I've got a Q-jet that is nearly new that I can stick on either of these two)

    I can probably easily come up with a 235 inline six also. I've got no problem running a buzzin half dozen.

    I know there is a lot more to fuel mileage than engines and transmissions. I'm willing to swap in whatever rear gear ratio would work best, once I figure out a matching setup with tire OD (using radials, also), gear ratio, engine, etc.

    Question 2: Is there a way to determine an engine's "sweet spot" in the RPM range for cruising without Edison-ian trial and error? I'd like to be able to cruise at around 70 mph to avoid people nearly slamming into my rear bumper (even at 70 they still will, really), but I'll slow it down to save a couple bucks if I gotta. I know of online RPM calculators that I can use, but I don't know what the various engines really want.

    Other than that, I'll probably be swapping in disc brakes. I know those aren't traditional, but neither are airheaded teenage girls in Corollas who inexplicably think that texting their BFF is more important than maintaining situational awareness while controlling a machine in a crowded environment that can easily kill someone, (makes you wonder - would these same people try to text while operating a band saw? And yet cars can be more dangerous) and given today's lawsuit-happy culture, I'd like to give myself every advantage I can.

    And last but not least, I'll be putting some kind of air conditioner in. Probably one of the various under-the-dash units on the market. Florida in the summertime is miserable, and I've got to sit in stop-and-go traffic in it - I guess I just don't dissipate heat as well as people in the 50's did, and I'm usually already good and pissed off by the time I leave work....so to prevent somebody from having their windshield bashed in because they cut me off, and to avoid having me sitting in the county jail or getting gunned down, air conditioning is kind of a must.

    Which leads to question 3: I know these cars could have had air conditioning from the factory, and I don't think they had fan shrouds over the radiator or anything special like that. As I want to stay as traditional appearing as possible and I'll have plenty of room between the motor and radiator to play with, electric fans are out of the question.

    Fan shrouds don't look too original, but I want this air conditioner to blow cold - do you guys think the system could function (and not overheat the engine) without one? I'll run one if I have to, function is more important than form, but I'm wanting to hide as many of my non-traditional tracks as possible.

    Anyway, if you've read this far, you're a good sport and I commend you. If you've got a potential car you're trying to get rid of, PM me, but bear in mind I won't be ready to spring this trap until early next year. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. atomickustom
    Joined: Aug 30, 2005
    Posts: 3,409

    atomickustom
    Member

    Sounds like a pretty good plan to me, although I cannot understand why you are so hesitant to run a fan shroud? You can't see it with the hood closed, and with A/C it won't look like 1957 under the hood anyway. A/C is totally worth doing, and a shroud is good insurance against overheating.


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  3. carpok
    Joined: Dec 29, 2009
    Posts: 552

    carpok
    Member
    from Indy

    You got me interested, but I'm a diehard 55 guy to start with so a trifive has my full attention. You already have a 350 use it with a 700r4 overdrive trans. A 336 rear you'll have good power and low rpm at 70 with good fuel economy. I had a 55 nomad with this setup and vintage air and got around 18 mpg. Good luck with the project. Ron
     
  4. Clevername
    Joined: Feb 18, 2011
    Posts: 318

    Clevername
    Member

    I have a 60 Impala with factory AC -it has a fan shroud. I think the 59s had a shroud as well.
    My advice would be to stick with a Chevy, since you are familiar with them. Those Ford Starliners and Sunliners look awesome though:)
    My AC is complete but doesn't work, and I am planning to retro-fit a new system in because fixing the R12 system is pricey, and I think, not workable long term. I have vents built into the dash which is cool so, the retro-fit will look stock. I think the 59 had the same dash.

    My plan is to keep the 283, or swap to a 327 and mate with a 700R4 for better highway cruising.

    I am pretty sure with the 58 and earlier, you are gonna have to go with under dash type AC.

    Kelvin
     

  5. daddylama
    Joined: Feb 20, 2002
    Posts: 930

    daddylama
    Member

    3spd OD & a Qjet on a 350 with the right cam & rear end gear to get your cruise speed in the peak torque area, and you'll be doing decent. that's a huge part of this... getting the cruise speed in the peak torque RPM range. my off-topic truck, 350 & 700r4: rarely use OD. gets better mileage in 3rd at most speeds under 75. anything over 75 and it's pushing so much air that the mileage sucks no matter what. OD is basically worthless on that thing because the rear end gearing has the RPMs too damn low when it's in 4thOD... lugs the motor and not at all efficient.

    or get a 305. i love me a 305 for a daily driver. they give up some displacement, but can squeak some decent mileage and still move really well. i'd not mind having one in front of a 3spd OD... it'd be fun to bump through the gears!

    look at any of Fat Hack's engine threads... he provides a damn good recipe and is nice enough to post details here on the HAMB.

    pay attention to cam choice. get a vacuum gauge and drive at the highest vacuum reading... surprising that higher RPMs can sometimes have less throttle opening...
     
  6. I have a hard time understanding why you resist using a shroud for the fan for sake of traditional looks yet you plan on using radial tires.

    Use the radials and use a fan shroud..You said you already have a 350 use it with a 700r4 overdrive transmission.

    You can have your cake and eat it too but I think you might need to rethink some of your ideas. HRP
     
  7. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    I'd get the metal work done on the '56. Why spend time and money looking for something else. That's a distraction. Install a 350 SBC, that you say you already have. Install A/C and use the shroud. Given that you have an 80 mile commute. I'd stay away from a 6. Trying to stay traditional and adding disc brakes and radials isn't going to make much sense. You want the look of an old car, with the reliability of a new one. Stick to that plan and go at it. It sounds like you have most of the parts already on hand. You got everyone's attention, so do it. I'm thinking of doing the same thing, so I'll be watching.
     
  8. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,305

    missysdad1
    Member

    It's really refreshing to hear from an enthusiast who looks to put function ahead of form. Kudos to ya'!

    Here's my $.02 worth:

    a) Build a 2-door. You'll never get your investment back if you put your money into a 4-door.

    b) Use your 350 with an AOD. The '55 - '57 is a fairly heavy car and you'll be needing the torque of the larger displacement to get it rolling efficiently - especially if you encounter much stop-and-go traffic.

    c) You can play with the rear gears, but I'd suggest something in the neighborhood of a 2.9 to a 3.5 as per late model factory sedans for best all-around performance with economy.

    d) A/C is a no-brainer for you, but go with a modern behind-the-dash unit for reliability and parts availability. A fan shroud is also a no-brainer under your circumstances.

    e) Boosted disc brakes and radial tires are yet another no-brain-required decision...for all the reasons you've already mentioned. My own '55 Buick has unboosted discs and it is tiresome in traffic.

    f) A couple of suggestions:

    1. Add aftermarket power steering. The reason is pretty obvious.

    2. Add aftermarket front and rear anti-sway bars and heavy duty gas-filled shocks to improve the handling of what will drive like a barge without 'em. Lowering the car a couple of inches front and rear will also improve handling by lowering the center of gravity.

    And 3. Add big, bright auxiliary tail lights somewhere on the rear at eye-level! The package shelf is a good place. You can make 'em removable or not, but don't skip this step. Today's brainless motorists expect huge lights on the car ahead and will never even see the small original tail lights...until it's too late.

    Great project! Good luck with it.
     
  9. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,713

    Torkwrench
    Member

    1960 Impala Engine 1.JPG 1960 Impala Engine 2.JPG 1960 Impala Engine 3.JPG
    1958 and newer Chevys had fan shrouds from the factory, if they were V8 cars. The small block cars have a longer shroud than the 348 / 409 cars, since the small blocks are shorter engines. Attached are some photos of my 1960 Impala's engine compartment. By the way, it's For Sale in the Classified Section. It would make a dandy daily driver.
     
  10. When I was working, I drove my 56 F100 to work every day, stroked 350 with a 700R4, 52 miles each way through So Cal traffic. That's about 27,000 miles a year. I did this for about fifteen years.
    I had no air but did have front disc brakes. It used eight gallons of gas a day.
    Was it worth it, yes. Would I do it again, Yes. If you want to drive an older car every day, you will find a way to make it work.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Gas Giant
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 402

    Gas Giant
    Member

    Thanks for the responses everyone.

    I have to say, you guys are right. The more I think about it, the more worrying about the "look" of the fan shroud is pretty stupid. Doesn't make much sense to NOT run it.

    As far as fixing up my '56 and running it, well that's a potential idea since I already have it. Another plus is that the 350 is in it already, mated to a rather leaky, and slowly dying TH350. And it already has 3.36 gears in the back, which also drips a bit of axle juice every now and then. No noise from it though.

    If I were to take this route, I'd definitely swap in a 200R4 or a 700R4. I had a 200R4 it it at one point, but it was some used thing I took a chance on, and got burned. It was toast, so I swapped the TH350 back in.

    The cam in the 350 is a bone stock cam I got from Summit. I don't remember the specs on it, I'll have to find the paperwork.

    But, the '56 has plenty of issues of its own:

    For one, its suffering quite badly from the "frame sag" that plagues tri five Chevys. My front tires are leaning in so bad that its quite obvious by just looking at the car from the front. Or even the side. The car is kind of scary to drive - the front end darts around, and if you have to stop suddenly its a matter of grabbing the steering wheel and praying you can keep it in the lane. I put those offset upper control arm shafts on, but it didn't help much, the problem is just that bad.

    Believe it or not, the older guy at MAACO was the only person I talked to who even understood the problem, but I haven't tried taking it down there yet because he wanted the engine out of the way to make measuring easier.

    For two, the aforementioned metal work it needs. If I was good at metal work, this would be a no brainer. But although I can weld things together and they usually stick, I don't think I can do a good enough job for things like rocker panels. The car needs a passenger side inner and outer rocker, 3 floor pans (I did one, and although it doesn't look that great, it ain't coming out), and a lot of metal work in the trunk area. (tailpan, brace, the little pieces between the quarter and tailpan, and some trunk floor). Not to mention some rust in the doors, and there is something funky going on with the dog leg behind the rear door.

    Perhaps in the name of investigating all possibilities, I should see what it would cost me to get that done. Or if any HAMBers in the central Florida area want to take crack at it while I stand by, watch, and drink beer, let me know. I'd gladly pay a HAMBer to do it, but once again I won't be ready until sometime early next year. But who knows, maybe I'll work up the guts to try it myself.

    For three, the Bel Air has no interior, save a shredded front seat and a slightly better rear seat. Although all this stuff is available, it ain't cheap, and maybe I'm a pansy, but I'd kind of like to have some semblance of an interior.

    So, I guess I've got some figurin to do to see if my '56 could be turned into a daily driver for the budget I'll have to work with.

    So far, all of you have good suggestions, which is exactly why I posted this at my planning phase. I hadn't thought about power steering or boosted brakes. I know I can't be completely traditional with this setup, but I wanted it to look as original as possible with some exceptions made for reliability and such. If I could have it look almost entirely original with the hood shut, yet blow cold air and get respectable mileage for a car it's size and age, I think I will consider the project a success.

    Thanks, and I'll keep you guys posted as things progress.
     
  12. 59 brook
    Joined: Jun 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,016

    59 brook
    Member

    my wagon had a 350/330hp crate motor from gm ,with a 700r4 and 320 something out back i would avg 17-18 mpg with dual a/c blowing at 75-80 mph.
    disc brakes,pwr steering , radio and a/c make it way more enjoyable
    i dont think i would waste my time with an indash a/c in fla again. i had a vintage air monster cooler, and just switched to the new improved sure fit 2 in dash and when i want the car cool i crank up the underdash unit and it makes a huge difference. in the fla heat with that big ol roof on top of you acting as a heat sink the indash units will just keep your shoulders down cool but year head can still feel that heat. kick on the old school underdash and your ready to start hanging meat off the roof. plenty of rainx as the wipers suck. at 75 the blow off the windshield and wipe mid air
     
  13. 59 brook
    Joined: Jun 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,016

    59 brook
    Member

    just so you know my car hides air ride, dual a/c ,power rack and pinion steering, dual swaybars,power bench seat,power 4 wheel disc brakes, 9" ford rear ,power front windows with the original crank up handle acting as the switch lever,power locks,modern stereo system,fuel injection on a 383 stroker and if i put the hubcaps back on and added back the original chrome strip on the front fenders and doors and took off the pinstriping it would look all stock. I do not hesitate to drive it
     
  14. 59 brook
    Joined: Jun 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,016

    59 brook
    Member

    i forgot 59 's have this fugly looking shroud ,kinda looks like a 55 gal drum cut in half , i hated the electric fan when i put it on and have sinced yanked it out and went back to a mechanical fan
     
  15. Flamed48
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 683

    Flamed48
    Member

    Here's my daily driver, on my parts list is 700r4 and EFI ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1404066695.167098.jpg


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  16. 59 brook
    Joined: Jun 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,016

    59 brook
    Member

    LED taillights make a huge difference also
     
  17. For example....If you were to pay somebody $10k to do a quality metal finish to your 56 (floor pans, rockers, whatever patch panels etc.), would you end up with a nicer car starting point than spending the same starting with a different car? That's the type of questions I'd be looking at if I was in your shoes...

    Sounds like, for your situation... you may be better off not limiting your choices so much and finding a really nice driver or even a project not requiring much metal work that someone else has already taken the bath on. It's gunna be really hard to build a tri5 from the ground up on a tight budget especially a rusty one.
     
  18. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,942

    squirrel
    Member

    that's what I was thinking. The mechanical end of his project is relatively easy to figure out, but getting a car to be comfortable to be in and drive is the tough thing.
     
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you are looking for mileage, weight is the enemy.

    You would want the smallest, lightest car you can get, with a small engine, and lots of gears, including an overdrive (or two).

    This pretty much rules out everything from the 50's.

    With the necessary AC, boosted disc brakes, radials, power steering, lowered suspension, with anti sway bars, you will have departed traditional, which is good, because dying in a traffic accident is traditional.

    Just keep the hood closed.
     
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would grab a 1987-on roller-cam TBI 305 and T5 from a Camaro. You can dress it to look like an earlier engine. They can be had for small money.

    Ditch the TBI setup, and swap the cam. Run an Edelbrock 500 on a matching manifold, small tube, full length headers, and a good electronic distributor.

    Have it professionally tuned. No guessing here.
     
  21. Gas Giant
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 402

    Gas Giant
    Member

    I'm always amazed by the rides you guys have on this site. Seriously, you guys have some very nice cars.

    My current line of thinking is that the '56 I currently have isn't a great candidate; I'm better off finding something that doesn't need much (or any) metal work. I keep finding decent 55-57's in the 6-8k range (4 doors of course) that would be much better starting points. It doesn't have to be perfect, a worn interior beats NO interior, and if the paint's not perfect or a bumper's got dings in it I won't be as scared of shopping carts. This things gonna be a driver after all, come rain or shine.

    Of course, a heavy 50's car isn't the best idea for mileage....just trying to make it do the best it can within the confines I've created for myself.

    Gimpys, its funny you mention that.....somebody was actually GIVING away a 305 today not far from me. All you needed to do was bring a hoist and its yours. Damn fine time to have lent my hoist to a friend on the other side of the state. Oh well, win some lose some.

    Great ideas on the additional brake light and LED tail lights. Last time I was at the auto parts store, they had these strips of LED lights....I guess for dressing up your cheesy rice rocket or something....but one of them was red, and since they were pretty bright, I was thinking that maybe I could hide that in the rear window so it would only be visible when I hit the brakes.

    Averaging 17-18 MPG would actually be an improvement over my truck, so I could live with that. Heck if I slowed it down a bit it might even do better.

    Of course, I'm drifting further and further away from traditional, but I knew from the start I couldn't stay strictly traditional. Maybe if gas prices were traditional.....
     
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I got my 28.5mpg 305, for free.

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  23. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,713

    Torkwrench
    Member

    scan a.jpg scan c.jpg scan d.jpg
    Concerning gas mileage...When my 59 BelAir sedan was my daily driver, I was getting 20 - 22 MPG. This was with a stock 235 and 3 speed. I did install a 3:36 rear end, but otherwise it was original 59 Chevy. Drove it all year around, in Northern Illinois, til it started to rust. Yeah.....It was a California car, until then.
     
  24. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    You can save about $3K plus on a project, if you get out of tri-five land. If you're finding 4 door tri-five's for $6 to 8K, a '53-'54 is probably half that.
     
  25. Gas Giant
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 402

    Gas Giant
    Member

    Torkwrench, I'd be really happy with that mileage, thats a lot better than my truck is doing.

    TFeverfred, you're definitely right....its something to consider....but its hard for me to let go lol.
     
  26. 40Standard
    Joined: Jul 30, 2005
    Posts: 5,963

    40Standard
    Member
    from Indy

    55-57 Chevy wagon with a 283, turbo 350, disc brakes and Vintage AC will fit your daily driver needs
     
  27. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 979

    BigDogSS
    Member
    from SoCal

    I know you said "no EFI", but I think TBI 305 or 350 is a good way to go for the type of driving you are going to use the vehicle for. They are reliable as a rock, cheap and you should get pretty decent fuel mileage. And you won't have to fiddle with it once it is setup. It can be hidden by a "traditional air cleaner. Go with a 700R4 or 200-4R for a transmission. Heck, after typing all of this, I'd even consider an LT1 from a 1994-96 Impala SS/Caprice/Roadmaster/Cadillac. No one needs to look under the hood. My wife's 1996 Caprice gets 25 mpg on the highway all day.

    IMO, plan on putting in a new interior. You'll be in the car for many miles and hours, so you might as well be comfortable and enjoy a bitchin' interior.
     
  28. Inked Monkey
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 1,834

    Inked Monkey
    Member

    I switched to my avitar as my daily driver 4 years ago and haven't looked back. Nothing like it, you won't be disappointed.
     
  29. Flamed48
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 683

    Flamed48
    Member

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1404168407.789053.jpg
    This was my dad's daily driver starting in 75 and till it's sad loss in 02


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  30. lukey
    Joined: May 27, 2009
    Posts: 668

    lukey
    Member

    My daily for over a year. 22 mpg with a mild 302/aod. I'm in the process of swapping a 3+1 od in it and it will be my daily again. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1405852151.115939.jpg


    -LUKEY-
     

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