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Z/28 cam (the 140 cam)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by johnk320, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    Are there any of these cams still out there? I remember a high school buddy of mine (back in 1970) put one of these cams in his 327 equipped '67 Chevelle. It ran like a banshee! I'm collecting parts for my 327 (w/mfi and vertex mag) and, if I can't find an Isky 505 magnum, I'd like to use one of these cams (GM p/n: 3727140).
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  2. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 5,555

    noboD
    Member

    I got a new one. Nope it's not for sale.
     
  3. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 2,563

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    I think the correct number is 3927140.
     
  4. badshifter
    Joined: Apr 28, 2006
    Posts: 2,689

    badshifter
    Member

    Any cam manufacturer worth dealing with can grind that profile for you. Call and ask em.
     
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  5. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,960

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Isn't that the same as the 327 fuel injected camshaft? Solid lifter set at .030 both intake and exhaust. I built a 301 for a 57 chev in 1971 with one of those. Great power!
     
  6. Dzus
    Joined: Apr 3, 2006
    Posts: 321

    Dzus
    Member

    Google popped this up. More at:
    http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16324


    Chevrolet Factory Cam Specs by part number
    Part # Lifter type--duration at .050 In/ex--Lift in/ex--centerline--description
    Small Blocks
    3849346 Mechanical - 254/254 - .484/.484 - 114 - 327 365HP& Z-28 302
    3863151 Hyd. - 221/221-.447/.447-114 - 327-350HP, L79
    3896929 Hyd. - 195/202 - .390/.410 - 112 - 327 300 HP
    3896962 Hyd. - 222/222 - .450/.460 - 114 - 350 L-46, L-82
    3927140 Mechanical - 257/269 - .493/.512 - 112 - Off Road
    3965754 Mechanical - 262/273 - .488/.509 - 112 - 2nd design road race, short track
    3972178 ?
    3972182 Mechanical - 242/254 - .459/.485 - 116 - 70 LT1 360 & 370HP, 71 LT 330 HP
    10134334 Hyd. Roller - 235/235 - .480/.480 - 114 - 350ZZZ and ZZ2 Crate Motor
    10185071 Hyd. Roller - 208/221 - .474/.474 - 112 - 350 345, ZZ3&4 Crate Motor
    10224241 Hyd. Roller - - 92-94 GenII, LT1, 350
    10243779 Hyd. Roller - - 94-96 Gen II, L99 265 V-8
    12353914 Hyd. - 180/194 - .378/.401 - - GM Crane Lo speed Hi torque
    12353915 Hyd. - 194/204 - .401/.423 - 104 - GM Crane street
    12353916 Hyd. - 204/214 - .423/.446 - 110 - GM Crane 305-350 street legal 50 states
    12353917 Hyd. - 204/214 - .420/.441 - 112 - GM Crane nan-emissions vehicles & off road
    12353918 Hyd. - 214/224 - .442/.465 - 112 - GM Crane marine & off road
    12353923 Hyd. - 224/234 - .465/.448 - 114 - GM Crane off road
    12364050 ?
    12364051 ?
    12364052 ?
    12364053 ?
    12364054 ?
    12370845 Hyd. Roller - 214/224 - .488/.509 - 112 - Off Road, lobe for mech fuel pump
    12370846 Hyd. Roller - 222/230 - .509/.528 - 112 - Off Road, lobe for mech fuel pump
    12370847 Hyd. Roller - 232/242 - .539/.558 - 112 - Off Road, lobe for mech fuel pump
    12551142 Hyd. Roller - 203/210 - .476/.480 - 115.5 - 96 350 LT4 w1.6 roller rockers
    12551705 Hyd. Roller - 201/208 - .447/.459 - 112 - 95-96 Gen II, LT1, w center dowel pin
    14088843 Hyd. - 202/206 - .403/.415 - 115 - 305 HO, 83-86
    14093643 Hyd. Roller - 202/206 - .403/.415 - 115 - 87 350 Corvette, IROC Camaro
    24502476 Hyd. - 121/220 - .435/.460 - 112.5 - 350 300 crate motor
    24502586 Hyd. Roller - 218/228 - .525/.525 - - 96 LT4 H.O.T. crate motor, use with 1.6 roller rockers
    NA Hyd. Roller - 202/210 - .472/.478 - 111 - 97 Gen III LS1 Corvette 350 uses 1.7 roller rockers

    Here is the 140 cam info in more detail, this is from crane who sells a copy of it:

    Part Number: 968821 Grind Number: 3927140
    Engine Identification:
    Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
    Engine Size Configuration

    Valve Setting: Intake .024 Exhaust .026 HOT
    Lift: Intake @Cam 3286 @Valve 493 All Lifts are based
    on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
    Exhaust @ Cam 3412 @Valve 512
    Rocker Arm Ratio 1.5
    Cam Timing: TAPPET @--
    Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
    Intake -- BTDC -- ABDC °
    Exhaust -- BBDC -- ATDC °
    Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
    Part Number 99893
    Loads Closed 120 LBS @ 1.875 or 1 7/8
    Open 296 LBS @ 1.415
    Recommended RPM range with matching components
    Minimum RPM 4200
    Maximum RPM 7000
    Valve Float 7500
    Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
    Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
    Intake 20.5 BTDC 56.5 ABDC 108 257 °
    Exhaust 70.5 BBDC 18.5 ATDC 116 269 °


    CENTERLINE
    INT 108
    EXH 116

    LOBE SEP 112
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  7. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    Wow! Great responses, guys! Thanks!

    My p/n info comes from the book, 302, The Definitive 1967-1968 Camaro Z/28 Fact Book by Jerry MacNeish. As listed in that publication, the 140 cam carries th GM p/n 3727140, solid lifter cam, offered for off-street use only, .022 int/.024 exhaust. The .030/.030 were the specs for the factory-installed street cam. This 140 cam was intended to be used with the 2X4 cross ram.
     
  8. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    @ Dzus - that 3927140 looks like it could be it! I wonder which number is correct? Both seem to be good sources....
     
  9. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    @ Dzus - The specs from Crane are similar and that grind # would bear out the p/n as being 3927140. Thanks...
     
  10. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    @ big duece - looks like you may be right on the p/n!
     
  11. Dzus
    Joined: Apr 3, 2006
    Posts: 321

    Dzus
    Member

    Cheap repro 3927140: Melling 22400 , Elgin E-902-P, Clevite 229-1622

    But the second design (3965754) may be hotter.
     
  12. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    @Dzus - Ahhh, I see what you mean about the 3965754... better duration, not quite the lift same centerline. Worth considering. Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  13. Bowtie Coupe
    Joined: Feb 16, 2009
    Posts: 488

    Bowtie Coupe
    Member

    3927140 - 1969 Service Mechanical - Open exhaust
    Factory timing 40-82 Int/90-46 Exh
    Factory duration 302 Int/316 Exh
    Factory lift .463 Int/.482 Exh
    Valve Clrnc .022 Int/.024 Exh

    3965754 - 1971 Service Mechanical - Open exhaust
    Factory timing 49-96 Int/96-55 Exh
    Factory duration 325 Int/331 Exh
    Factory lift .495 Int/.512 Exh
    Valve Clrnc .022 Int/.024 Exh

    Courtesy of How to Hotrod Smallblock Chevys (1972)
     
  14. the 140 was the
    "off road service cam". Much bigger than the fuelie cam. It really likes a stick shift and reasonable compression
     
  15. when i was little we had a real 69 Z28 with a 302 and the off road cam, it was wicked. my mom drove it everyday too!
     
  16. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 11,996

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Mine was Fathom green with the white stripes... Wicked car!
     
  17. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,069

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    I'm gunna put one in my '64 el camino cross ram 302 when i get it on the road again, it sounds like it should be a fun one!
     
  18. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 615

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Maine

    I ran the original off road Z-28 cam in both a 292 and a 301 - if you run a manual trans and 4.11 rear, it's can be a street monster. And when one of the above specs says that it dies below 4200 RPM - believe it!
     
  19. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 25,780

    porknbeaner
    Member


    I was going to mention if its the real deal it starts climbing up on the cam about 4K and is good to about 8K. I had a factory Z-28 302 in a '64 Chevelle wicked fast and sounded like a swarm of bees comming down the pike.

    I like a lot of engines for different purposes but you just can't beat a high winding SBC. High rev cruising is a rush.
     
  20. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    OK... so as some of you who have replied here already know, my app is going to be used primarily on the street (but some passes down the 1320). I was thinking of picking up a B&M Hydro to keep with the trad gasser theme but many have indicated a four speed would be better. I figure these "off-street" cams needed to drive through the its, down return roads, etc. and as long as you brrrp 'em every once in a while to keep 'em from loading up you're good. I want a cam like this cause the power curve would be in the range for the mfi to make its best power.

    Thoughts on this? Keep in mind that Hilborn sez that mfi isn't for street use either... MANY have successfully done it though!
     
  21. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 5,780

    Larry T
    Member

    The second design off road cam (3965754) has one of the nastiest idles off any cam I've ever heard. It'll stand your hair on end. But for a street driven car with an automatic, it'll be a pain in the butt to live with. And will probably get the doors blown off your car by any stocker out there, unless you want to leave the line at 4500 rpms or more.
    Larry T
     
  22. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 25,780

    porknbeaner
    Member


    I'm using a hydro stick in my car but that's because I have it. The problem you are going to run into with the hydro is that to run that cam you will need a very high stall (the hydrostick uses a fluid coupler and not a torque converter, remember it doesn't start working until about 4K, maybe a little lower if you out it in a big inch mill but not much. Perhaps you could convert the Hyrdo to a clutch that would help.

    You won't be able to go idleing around with ti but with your MFI you arenot going to be doing much idleing around either. Yes you'll have to keep it cleaned, IE Brrrrp. There are some tricks to running a hilborn unit on the street, they make a fuel controller for sprint cars for instance, but it gets fuel into the cabin with you and that will keep you off the strip. Pete jackson makes a variable barrel valve, useing the correct one will give you a wider cruising range but you still have no idle. Never the less if you can live with it it can be done.

    I would stay with a stick in your car if you are going to run the Z-28 cam anyway.
     
  23. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    @ PnB - Yeah, I'm starting to think an M22 might be the way to go...
     
  24. what rear gear are you running?
     
  25. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    @ LarryT Yeah, I'm thinking an automatic is not the way to go. Nice avatar, btw! Is this a Z/28 cross ram manifold? Didn't look at it all that closely....
     
  26. johnk320
    Joined: Jul 23, 2007
    Posts: 316

    johnk320
    Member
    from Erie PA

    @ Graucho - Up in the air on that one... 4.11, 4.56, 4.88?
     
  27. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 5,780

    Larry T
    Member


    No, it's an Offenhauser, which is the same except for the snowflake and the $$$$$$$$$$$$. (G)
    Larry T
     
  28. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 17,857

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    They like a decent set of gears behind the stick setup too. Not a lot of low speed low end but Katie bar the doors when you punch it with 3.70 or 4.11's behind it.
     
  29. OK. At least 4.11 with the little 327 and that cam. More if you can stand it. Also, if you run the 4.11, I'd look for a BW Super T-10 with lower 1st gear than the 2.20 on the M-22, or a wide ratio Muncie (M-20) if you're not gonna torture it too badly. Every little bit is gonna help with that cam and a 3 1/4" stroke. Less necessary with 4.56 or 4.88's
     
  30. In 1971 I ran the 140 cam in a '62 Vette 336", 12.5:1, 2.02 heads, Muncie close ratio, 4.56 and/or 4.88 gears, 850 3 barrel carb. It was an absolute terror in kill mode (WOT) and spun to 7500+ with ease. However it was nearly impossible to cruise the gut. Then I dropped the gearing back to 3.70's and it was even worse at stop and go. It was fun to drive in race mode but otherwise pretty useless. Then in '74 the octane ratings fell apart and that engine got redone/detuned to live for many more streetable miles.

    It did sing though.

    Charlie
     

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