History Why the American Automotive Industry Failed, and Continues to Fail: W. Edwards Deming

US Made Redwings or Weinbrenners my friend... and they'll last for YEARS http://www.redwingshoes.com/
http://www.weinbrennerusa.com/

 

The other thing that has really hurt N.A. automakers is the availability of cheap gas in the US. Cheap gas means the tastes of American car buyers is different from the rest of the world, hence the need for two completely different lines of cars and trucks. The Europeans don't have the same issue. You can sell a European car in the US, but you can't sell an American car in Europe. They're too big, use too much fuel and don't like cornering. I wouldn't want to drive through the Swiss Alps in a Crown Vic or try keeping up to a VW Golf on the Autobahn with a Lincoln Towncar or parking a Lincoln Navigator in a Paris underground garage.

That's why the Japanese have not been that successful in Europe. They're geared towards N. American tastes and driving. Honda didn't really make too many inroads in Europe until it developed a diesel and offered wagons.

If US tastes align with the rest of the world, the Big 3 can then actually develop "world" cars and engines that require only minor modifications for local regulations. That would save 100s millions in tooling and design.

 

Detroit was pushing gas guzzling SUVs, in part, because
they were not covered by the CAFE requirements.

CAFE only applies to cars. A big barge that seats 8
with every possible option is considered a truck.
Even the PT Cruiser is considered a truck.

The rules for "trucks" are different, even for things like side impact testing.
So the definition of "truck" got stretched and distorted.
---
The Ford Focus was supposed to be a "world car", with healthy aftermarket support.
Heard a little about it here just before it came out, then nothing.

 

Detroit was "pushing" gas guzzling SUV's, because that is what the public wanted. SUV's today are the muscle cars of the late 60's eary 70's.

Detroit knows how to sell what the country wants, and they do it very well. It just doesn't seem to have a good handle on hindsite. It got cuaght with its pants down this time...badly

In the first gas crunch, Japan got a foot hold. This time they took the market. The Big 3 could be blamed for riding the wave to far. bad market analysis?

 

Here,s a thought

why not let the big three go under,develop new technologies electric, compressed air , hydrogen ,etc. For the meantime import and tax new cars from where ever.

Then there will be no reliance on the staple base, and in the interim it would create an automotive renaissance handing the initiative back to the designers/engineers

Britain lost its car industry 20 years ago we survived...............

 

yes, it went through consolidation in the late 50/60's, receivership and liquidation in the 70's. And sold off piecemeal in the 90's.

 

I work for the Air Force as a mechanic, and it seems that a lot of what Mr. Deming talks about can be applied to other industries especially in the AF aircraft maintenance.

Institute leadership (see Point 12 and Ch. 8 of "Out of the Crisis"). The aim of supervision should be to help people and machines and gadgets to do a better job. Supervision of management is in need of overhaul, as well as supervision of production workers.
Drive out fear, so that everyone may work effectively for the company. (See Ch. 3 of "Out of the Crisis")

 

Supervisors are put into positions of leadership through the "Good ol boy" system..

 

The current "automotive renaissance" in Britain is busy doing what ?

After the big names went under, what happened to the "motorcycle renaissance" in Britain ?

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Is there anything actually manufactured in Britain these days ?

 

I meant do as I say, not do as I do

 

you sir are speaking my language. Ive seen more of thos bumperstickers in a wal-mart parking lot than anywhere else...go figure. Also what bugs me about the whole buy american cars thing is most of the parts come from suppliers and most of those suppliers produce off-shore so regardless your money isnt going back into america

as a canadian your kinda boned there since they are all imports to us, unless we all drive bricklins

 

American auto manufacturers are in trouble for a lot of reasons, bad quality, poor design, redundant design, labor. Right now, more money is spent on retirement benefits than on most anything else. Added to that high labor costs with ridiculous contracts forced on them by labor unions and you get the current situation.

People wonder why USAM outsource overseas but really don't understand the basic principles of a corporation and economics.

A corporation is in business for one thing and that is to maximize profit. Economics demand that the company outsource to the lowest bidder for maximum profit. When labor whines about losing jobs, go look in the mirror. Why would any company in their right mind pay the second highest income tax rate IN THE WORLD and some of the highest hourly wages in the world at the same time? That is poor business sense.

Then couple high costs with poor quality and Americans are running in droves to imports. Higher quality, lower cost. Avg Toyota labor rate is $15. Avg Detroit wages is $32 (last I heard).

 

What is this renaissance you speak of?

Jaguar: TATA group, India
Mini: BMW, Ze Fazerland
MG: Oklahoma?/ China
Land Rover/ Range Rover/ Rover: Ford
Aston Martin: Ford, UK?
Morgan: UK
McLaren: UK

did I miss anything...of any useful volume?

 

I believe that as a result of a period of great affluence, Americans have slowly become complacent and have developed some sort of sense of entitlement to our high standard of living. We have in large, forgotten about the sacrifices as well as the accomplishments of "the great generation". We are now faced with having a new president that will create the greatest "mommy government" ever known to the United States.

In our current state of despair and decline, I'm hoping that these adverse circumstances will re-invigorate our will, desire, ingenuity, resourcefulness and competitiveness which made our country great. These times (in a lesser degree) mirror the age of the great depression followed by mass warfare. If we get fed-up enough, we have the opportunity and ability to restore the USA to its fullest potential and power.

 

Does it make sense that you would want your biggest customers to lose there jobs? That is basically what has happened. Most of us all understand the basic principles of a buisness is to make money. But the real problem here is that auto companies and all the other companies that outsource their labor are losing buisness because they have got rid of the employees that were buying their products. Even Henry Ford understood this. He made the price of the Model T cheap and paid his employees well so the could afford the cars they were producing. Instant customers.

Now we give all the good paying jobs away to other countries to exploit their low labor cost. These people who work in this factories are just working to survive. They hardly have enough to eat let alone buy the good they are making. Meanwhile, here in the states, a guy who was working the floor at a Ford factory has lost his job. Now this guy was buying a new car every couple of years. And more times than not he was probably buying the brand that he was producing. Now they have lost this guy as a customer. And they've lost all customers in all they have laid off.

Buisness is as simple as supply and demand. You can have all the supply you want at a low price but if you don't have demand it dosen't mean a damn thing.

And this goes even deeper into the economy. Because all these "good paying" factory jobs are gone, the economy of the local area also suffers. Local buisness close up because the people that lived in these areas can't afford to spend money like they use to. Vacation spots lose money and trickle down to everyone eventually. Local and Federal Governments lose tax base for schools and roads. Leaving the rest of us that are still working to cough up more maney for services.

But this is not just the fault of the big three. Our government is also to blame. The Free Trade Agreement we have in place does not work. It's not free. People, tax payers, are paying with there jobs. Free does translate to equal. The quality of life in our country is suffering because of this. If all countries paid the same labor rate it would be Fair and Equal.

Anyway, I'll stop ranting.

For the record, I'm NOT an out of work auto worker. I do live in the Detroit metro area and am seeing the effects that this is causing.

 

Americans didn't read or remember about the Roman Empire.

After Pearl Harbor, we were asked to enlist in the military and buy war bonds.
We grew our vegetables in our "Victory Gardens", were rationed gasoline, shoes, tires and meat. We came together as a Nation at war with a common purpose. We were one.

After 9-11 we were told to go shopping.

The USA is in tremendous debt to our rival, Communist China.
They are building a military force that is massive.

We even have to import much of the steel that we use. We are now dependant on outside sources for the very materials that we would need to defend ourselves.

The days of the great American auto industry are over. We will continue to build cars, but the market will forever now have to be shared with other countries.

Americans have been lost in leisure and consumption for 40 years.

At times like 9-11 or after a natural disaster such as a wildfire, flood or earthquake, people step up and behave in remarkable fashion. All political or social resentments vanish and are replaced with decent hard working, generous, humane and caring people.
We are at a time like that now and the sooner we start to behave as ONE the better our chances of getting back on track.

 

The Point!
I wasn,t talking about what Britain does, If you paid attention, I was joining in the debate,but you jumped the gun(as usual),there,s plenty wrong in the UK , please evaluate what is written clearly before responding

thank you

 

Chuckie: Are we gonna have a problem here?
Clark: No, no, no, no! There's no problem here. I was just hoping you might give me some insight into the evolution of the market economy in the southern colonies. My contention is that prior to the Revolutionary War, the economic modalities, especially in the southern colonies, could be most aptly described as agrarian precapitalist.
Chuckie: Let me tell you something -
Will: Of course that's your contention. You're a first-year grad student; you just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably. You're gonna be convinced of that 'till next month when you get to James Lemon. Then you're going to be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year; you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.
Clark: Well, as a matter of fact, I won't, because Wood drastically underestimates the impact of social -
Will: "Wood drastically underestimates the impact of social distinctions predicated upon wealth, especially inherited wealth"? You got that from Vickers' "Work in Essex County," page 98, right? Yeah, I read that too. Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us? Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter? Or do you, is that your thing, you come into a bar, read some obscure passage and then pretend - you pawn it off as your own, as your own idea just to impress some girls, embarrass my friend?
Clark: [looks down in shame]
Will: See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped 150 grand on a f***in' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!

 

darn gun jumpers. you didn't bring up the renaisance. What maybe demonstated here is the example of a national automotive industry cycle works. We have growth, failure, consolidation. We shall watch and see how the US comes out of this, again.

 

I'm rarely an optimist but on the bright side maybe this means Ford will be forced to start making brand spanking new Model T's again in a few years... then "A"'s... and in 2032... brand new '32's... then '33's, 34's and so on. GM and everyone else can follow suit. I can't wait to buy my new Willy's Coupe right off the showroom floor, get the nose jacked up in the air, gut the interior, slide in a cage... then run down to the Oldsmobile dealer to pick up a new engine, trans and rear end... of course then I'll have to get a blower... can you sense my excitement yet?!?!?!

I wonder if they'll be the same price as back then considering the devalued dollar and all?

Let's hope all of the domestics get their shit together... seriously... and soon!!!

 

"people that aren't working or that are in low paying jobs don't buy shit"... and that lesson seems to have been lost somehow by corporate america... that includes hot-rods... hot-rod parts... and on... and on... and on...

 

You're right but it is a two way street. Workers also have to realize that pension funds and high wages will result in companies making cuts some where. Cutting jobs, tendering to overseas manufacturers etc. Bottom line is companies are, in theory, responsible to their shareholders and that means profit and as much profit as you can get.

 

If those companies were run correctly, they could pay
the pension and health care obligations they agreed to,
and have money left over.

OR they can screw themselves into the ground.

Which one is more likely ?

 

Explain?..

 

I would bet they would have a hard time paying industry leading wages, industry leading pensions, industry leading healthcare and buy all of their parts from U.S. manufactures doing the same thing and stay competitive with overseas manufactures who are not.

 

just for amusement... would you please try to rationalize or justify to me these supposed "high wages" of the laborer that people so much love to flail around in light of the value of todays dollar, overpaid ceo's, greedy shareholders that sell stock like eight year old kids that trade baseball cards and middle management that floats along for the ride the entire time while turning a blind eye and collecting their own phat paychecks, pensions and bene's. Justify to me why someone should be paid $12 an hour or less... are you willing to work for that kind of money... and expect to put food on your families table, pay income, property, and on and on taxes, contribute to your 401K, put money away for college, pay the mortgage, put gas in the car, hit a car show, go to did'sneyland every four years or even buy a HAMB t-shirt???

there's trickle down economics and then there's slowly trickling bleed 'em until we're all dead economics.

i guess you and i have to ask ourselves this question... what's better for a thriving nation... one person making $1M a year or ten people making $50K a year and one person making $500K per year?

here's a true sign of how bad the econony really is and how hard the times really are... people are stealing cars and dumping them just to get a HAMB t-shirt... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302600 for chrissakes... has the world gone mad!?!?!?!

 

MAN, there's been some good stuff on here lately!

 

I am going to interject a person opinion in this thread, which I normally try not to.

In my opinion, no business/ country should not send it's base industrial production overseas. The cost to that society is to great. I believe that there is such a thing as acceptable profit and controlled growth/ decline.

That being said, a business/ country must be able to control and regulate thier own work force, the unions have successfully eliminated that ability. They have created thier own dinosaur.

Because of that, Corporations have sought ways to get around the unions, in this case by exporting jobs. In order to gain effeciency, expedience, and streamline thier operations.

 

yes... cutting off your nose to spite your face is just brilliant isn't it?

how many people that used to make $50K a year are now struggling to pay those mortgages? this stuff goes way deeper than we can get into on the HAMB

we need leadership... and a different brand of sheep... i plan on seeing neither in the future.